smallest guns

Darxus · January 10, 2002, 07:36 PM

In looking for guns for concealed carry, I often wonder what is the smallest gun of a certain type in a given caliber - like what's the smallest semi-auto in .40S&W ? I haven't been able to find this information collected anywhere. So I started collecting it myself: http://www.SmallestGuns.com.

If you're aware of something that should be on the list, please submit it. If you find any incorrect information or problems, please email me.

If you know of some other place this information is available, please let me know so I can stop duplicating efforts.

I'm still actively developing this site - the DNS entries were finished today. I still need to impliment sorting and filtering.

alamo · January 10, 2002, 08:28 PM

The smallest/lightest is the Kel-Tec P-40. Recently discontinued by KT due to too many getting returned with nothing wrong with them. Small/light pistols with a powerful round must be held firmly or jams can result from limpwristing. Some of the early P-40s had a few manufacturing problems. They are still available though as a good number are still in the distributor pipeline. Kel-Tec will continue to honor the warranty and they will continue to have spare parts for them if this fits your needs.

See the Kel-Tec owners group website and "Bulletin Board" link there for more info.:

http://www.ktog.org

branrot · January 10, 2002, 11:50 PM

I did some of this research a few years ago. I was looking for a gun I could carry when I couldn't carry a gun. I required a tiny gun that could fire each time i pulled the trigger. Thus, no NAA mini-revolvers, semmerlings, or derringers. all of which required cocking. What I came up with was the KBI PSP-25. It's a copy of the Browning Baby, and is also made by a company named Bauer. Under 10 ounces, smaller than the Kel-Tec P32 (though slightly wider and heavier), and smaller and lighter than the Beretta.

Keep up the good work!

Tamara · January 11, 2002, 01:13 AM

...the Downsizer WSP.

trapshooter · January 11, 2002, 01:35 AM

Ouch! Reminds me of a .357 Mag derringer I saw once. Painful to shoot, but more so on the other end.

Jody Hudson · January 11, 2002, 06:45 AM

I've had some small and powerful derringers and still have an almost weightless "plastic" one, an Intratec, in .38. It kicks as hard as my .38 maximum, .45 Long Colt/.410 and my .44 Magnum because this little .38 is so very light. I love it however as it's a two shot semi-automatic!

I did not care for the regular derringers as they required a difficult cocking maneuver.

Love my Keltecs, my Makarov and my Glock 19.

mini14jac · January 11, 2002, 07:50 AM

The CA2000 is a really neat mini revolver.
- DAO! -
http://www.casullarms.com/handguns1.htm

JP
><>

Joe Demko · January 11, 2002, 08:32 AM

Does anybody have one of those CA2000's? Anybody at least fired or seen one in the flesh?

Jody Hudson · January 11, 2002, 09:06 AM

I've seen and handled the little .22s with the folding trigger. It seemed to be well built and it is fairly small. But not as pocketable as a Keltec P32 of course. Still it seemed to be a pretty nice little revolver.

Rovert · January 11, 2002, 11:20 AM

Darxus, looks like you forgot to include the Kahr MK9, and the Beretta Tomcat (.32ACP).

http://www.kahr.com/images/m9096.gif

Tamara · January 11, 2002, 11:49 AM

Darxus,

Here's a pic of some small guns you can feel free to use. (Glock 33, Taurus 731UL, Beretta 3032 Tomcat and Beretta 950BS Jetfire)

Meowhead · January 11, 2002, 11:52 AM

Seecamp, anyone? .32 auto

Semmerling LM-4 .45 ACP

The first image is from..actually I don't remember the address. The second, from American Derringer Co. website.

blades67 · January 11, 2002, 10:35 PM

I'll submit my Colt Mustang & PocketLite .380 ACP's to your list.

Darxus · January 12, 2002, 06:09 AM

Thanks for your feedback everyone. Still haven't done the filtering / sorting. I'll get to it, I swear.

alamo, the information I have found, which was on my site at the time you posted, indicates that the Kahr MK40 is smaller than the Kel-Tec P40 (although the Kel-Tec is lighter and has a higher capacity). I've had a Kel-Tec P32 for a while and am fond of the little thing and it's probably part of what motivated me to start the site.

Tamara, thanks a lot for the link to the Downsizer WSP, very cool. I had been beginning to wonder if anything would beat the Kel-Tec P32 :)

Jody, went looking for specs on the Makarov, but didn't find dimensions. I just asked the folks at makarov.com to tell me.

mini14jac, that CA2000 is cute, but they have no dimensions or weight listed :/

Rovert, if all the date & time stamps are right, I've had that Kahr listed since before I posted the url to this forum. But I have it listed as the M9097A instead of the MK9, because the former is displayed much more prominently on the manufacturers page (and that form is used in the url you offered) - but if the shorter form is more common, I will change it, is it ?

Meowhead, ah yes, the Seecamp certainly should be on this list.

johnwill · January 12, 2002, 04:28 PM

Here's my entry in the small carry gun derby. From the top left across in rows:

Glock 26 (9mm), Keltec P32 (.32), Keltec P9 (9mm)
HJS 4 shot derringer (.22), NAA Guardian (.32), Baby Browning (.25)
Walther Model 9 (.25), NAA mini-rev (.22), Colt Mustang Pocketlite (.380)

There must be a gun in there for almost any small gun carry requirement.

Dr.Rob · January 12, 2002, 04:47 PM

Everyone should have one of these, one of Colt's most popular models. Mine was made in 1921.

EnochGale · January 12, 2002, 09:24 PM

Two tiny 22s are the

NAA 22S - one of the smallest guns I've seen
HJS 4 barrelled 22 LR derringer

HJS also made a small 380.

johnwill · January 13, 2002, 01:35 PM

Dr.Rob,

I have a Colt 1908, it just didn't make the cut. I believe mine was made in 1922...

Blackhawk · January 13, 2002, 06:38 PM

johnwill,

Now that's a great photo! I never realized that my P11 was so big (which you've called a P9), or that a P32 is so small. Specifications don't quite tell the story like a picture.

The prettiest one, IMO, is the Colt Mustang. I might want to compare one ergonomically to a PPK.

johnwill · January 13, 2002, 08:26 PM

P11, P9, what's the difference?

It is interesting to gather them all in one place and look at them. It's interesting that you like the Mustang, it's still my most frequent carry. I trust it, it's small, and I think that seven shots of 92gr GS will spoil most bad guy's day for sure.

22lovr · January 14, 2002, 06:44 AM

Darxus: Great little website. I, too, am a diehard small gun pocket carry fan. I've owned the Beretta Model 21 Bobcat in .22lr, three mini revolvers (2 mags and 1 .22LR), KelTec P11, KelTec P32, and Taurus Mod 85 ultralite. My current favorite is the KelTec p32 by far. I think it is the most technologically advance small pistol ever made. I only wish George Kelgren would bring his workmanship and materials to a higher level of quality. The two guns that currently intrigue me are the Kahr MK9's and MK40's. The Mk may weigh 23 oz but it is pretty near as short, high, and wide as a P32. Just might have to go out and get one. Jeff the 22luvr

355sigfan · January 14, 2002, 07:39 AM

two shot semi-automatic

A derringer is not semi automatic.
PAT

Jody Hudson · January 14, 2002, 04:02 PM

I believe it is correct to call my Intratec .38 a two shot semi-auto as I pull the trigger twice and it goes bang, bang. No hammer to pull back.

Is there a term that is more correct in your opinion? Please explain your adversity to the term and your choice for the correct term.

Tamara · January 14, 2002, 04:28 PM

Quote:

...your choice for the correct term.

Perhaps "Double Action Derringer"?

But I see what you're saying...

Jody Hudson · January 14, 2002, 04:32 PM

I wonder... actually it is not truely double action as there is no other action, single action, hammer pulling choice.

It is pull trigger as only choice. Pull trigger twice, two shots, bang-bang.

Ohhh and one other thing... a bit of an OWW after a dozen or so shots in practice. The little pistol is almost weightless and has only room for one and a half fingers on the grip. It would feel better to use the middle finger to pull the trigger, BUT that puts the index finger out past the end of the barrel which is NOT good.

January 10, 2002, 07:36 PM	#1
Darxus Member Join Date: November 14, 2001 Posts: 16	smallest guns In looking for guns for concealed carry, I often wonder what is the smallest gun of a certain type in a given caliber - like what's the smallest semi-auto in .40S&W ? I haven't been able to find this information collected anywhere. So I started collecting it myself: http://www.SmallestGuns.com. If you're aware of something that should be on the list, please submit it. If you find any incorrect information or problems, please email me. If you know of some other place this information is available, please let me know so I can stop duplicating efforts. I'm still actively developing this site - the DNS entries were finished today. I still need to impliment sorting and filtering.

January 11, 2002, 01:13 AM	#4
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Look into... ...the Downsizer WSP. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

January 11, 2002, 01:35 AM	#5
trapshooter Junior member Join Date: January 2, 2002 Location: Missouri Posts: 902	Tamara... Ouch! Reminds me of a .357 Mag derringer I saw once. Painful to shoot, but more so on the other end.

January 11, 2002, 06:45 AM	#6
Jody Hudson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Near Rehoboth Beach Delaware Posts: 1,140	I've had some small and powerful derringers and still have an almost weightless "plastic" one, an Intratec, in .38. It kicks as hard as my .38 maximum, .45 Long Colt/.410 and my .44 Magnum because this little .38 is so very light. I love it however as it's a two shot semi-automatic! I did not care for the regular derringers as they required a difficult cocking maneuver. Love my Keltecs, my Makarov and my Glock 19. __________________ We help people relocate to Rehoboth Beach Delaware. Our Site: www.Kate-Jody.com

January 11, 2002, 09:06 AM	#9
Jody Hudson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Near Rehoboth Beach Delaware Posts: 1,140	I've seen and handled the little .22s with the folding trigger. It seemed to be well built and it is fairly small. But not as pocketable as a Keltec P32 of course. Still it seemed to be a pretty nice little revolver. __________________ We help people relocate to Rehoboth Beach Delaware. Our Site: www.Kate-Jody.com

January 10, 2002, 08:28 PM	#2
alamo Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 1,060	The smallest/lightest is the Kel-Tec P-40. Recently discontinued by KT due to too many getting returned with nothing wrong with them. Small/light pistols with a powerful round must be held firmly or jams can result from limpwristing. Some of the early P-40s had a few manufacturing problems. They are still available though as a good number are still in the distributor pipeline. Kel-Tec will continue to honor the warranty and they will continue to have spare parts for them if this fits your needs. See the Kel-Tec owners group website and "Bulletin Board" link there for more info.: http://www.ktog.org

January 10, 2002, 11:50 PM	#3
branrot Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: Miami Beach, FL, USA Posts: 1,367	I did some of this research a few years ago. I was looking for a gun I could carry when I couldn't carry a gun. I required a tiny gun that could fire each time i pulled the trigger. Thus, no NAA mini-revolvers, semmerlings, or derringers. all of which required cocking. What I came up with was the KBI PSP-25. It's a copy of the Browning Baby, and is also made by a company named Bauer. Under 10 ounces, smaller than the Kel-Tec P32 (though slightly wider and heavier), and smaller and lighter than the Beretta. Keep up the good work!

January 11, 2002, 07:50 AM	#7
mini14jac Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2001 Location: The Volunteer State. Posts: 691	The CA2000 is a really neat mini revolver. - DAO! - http://www.casullarms.com/handguns1.htm JP ><>

January 11, 2002, 08:32 AM	#8
Joe Demko Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2000 Posts: 1,143	Does anybody have one of those CA2000's? Anybody at least fired or seen one in the flesh?

January 11, 2002, 11:20 AM	#10
Rovert Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2001 Posts: 824	Darxus, looks like you forgot to include the Kahr MK9, and the Beretta Tomcat (.32ACP). http://www.kahr.com/images/m9096.gif __________________ "Following the path of least resistance is what makes rivers, and men, crooked."

January 11, 2002, 11:49 AM	#11
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	BTW... Darxus, Here's a pic of some small guns you can feel free to use. (Glock 33, Taurus 731UL, Beretta 3032 Tomcat and Beretta 950BS Jetfire) __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

January 11, 2002, 11:52 AM	#12
Meowhead Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2002 Posts: 271	Seecamp, anyone? .32 auto Semmerling LM-4 .45 ACP The first image is from..actually I don't remember the address. The second, from American Derringer Co. website.

January 11, 2002, 10:35 PM	#13
blades67 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 1999 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 6,014	I'll submit my Colt Mustang & PocketLite .380 ACP's to your list. __________________ Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat! I hunt, therefore I am.

January 12, 2002, 06:09 AM	#14
Darxus Member Join Date: November 14, 2001 Posts: 16	Thanks for your feedback everyone. Still haven't done the filtering / sorting. I'll get to it, I swear. alamo, the information I have found, which was on my site at the time you posted, indicates that the Kahr MK40 is smaller than the Kel-Tec P40 (although the Kel-Tec is lighter and has a higher capacity). I've had a Kel-Tec P32 for a while and am fond of the little thing and it's probably part of what motivated me to start the site. Tamara, thanks a lot for the link to the Downsizer WSP, very cool. I had been beginning to wonder if anything would beat the Kel-Tec P32 :) Jody, went looking for specs on the Makarov, but didn't find dimensions. I just asked the folks at makarov.com to tell me. mini14jac, that CA2000 is cute, but they have no dimensions or weight listed :/ Rovert, if all the date & time stamps are right, I've had that Kahr listed since before I posted the url to this forum. But I have it listed as the M9097A instead of the MK9, because the former is displayed much more prominently on the manufacturers page (and that form is used in the url you offered) - but if the shorter form is more common, I will change it, is it ? Meowhead, ah yes, the Seecamp certainly should be on this list.

January 12, 2002, 04:28 PM	#15
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	Here's my entry in the small carry gun derby. From the top left across in rows: Glock 26 (9mm), Keltec P32 (.32), Keltec P9 (9mm) HJS 4 shot derringer (.22), NAA Guardian (.32), Baby Browning (.25) Walther Model 9 (.25), NAA mini-rev (.22), Colt Mustang Pocketlite (.380) There must be a gun in there for almost any small gun carry requirement.

January 12, 2002, 09:24 PM	#17
EnochGale Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2000 Location: southwest Posts: 823	Two tiny 22s are the NAA 22S - one of the smallest guns I've seen HJS 4 barrelled 22 LR derringer HJS also made a small 380.

January 13, 2002, 01:35 PM	#18
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	Dr.Rob, I have a Colt 1908, it just didn't make the cut. I believe mine was made in 1922...

January 13, 2002, 06:38 PM	#19
Blackhawk Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2001 Posts: 5,040	johnwill, Now that's a great photo! I never realized that my P11 was so big (which you've called a P9), or that a P32 is so small. Specifications don't quite tell the story like a picture. The prettiest one, IMO, is the Colt Mustang. I might want to compare one ergonomically to a PPK.

January 13, 2002, 08:26 PM	#20
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	P11, P9, what's the difference? It is interesting to gather them all in one place and look at them. It's interesting that you like the Mustang, it's still my most frequent carry. I trust it, it's small, and I think that seven shots of 92gr GS will spoil most bad guy's day for sure.

January 14, 2002, 06:44 AM	#21
22lovr Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: The "burbs," just southwest Atlanta Posts: 757	Love that pocket carry....... Darxus: Great little website. I, too, am a diehard small gun pocket carry fan. I've owned the Beretta Model 21 Bobcat in .22lr, three mini revolvers (2 mags and 1 .22LR), KelTec P11, KelTec P32, and Taurus Mod 85 ultralite. My current favorite is the KelTec p32 by far. I think it is the most technologically advance small pistol ever made. I only wish George Kelgren would bring his workmanship and materials to a higher level of quality. The two guns that currently intrigue me are the Kahr MK9's and MK40's. The Mk may weigh 23 oz but it is pretty near as short, high, and wide as a P32. Just might have to go out and get one. Jeff the 22luvr

January 14, 2002, 07:39 AM	#22
355sigfan Junior member Join Date: February 10, 2000 Posts: 1,388	two shot semi-automatic A derringer is not semi automatic. PAT

January 14, 2002, 04:02 PM	#23
Jody Hudson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Near Rehoboth Beach Delaware Posts: 1,140	I believe it is correct to call my Intratec .38 a two shot semi-auto as I pull the trigger twice and it goes bang, bang. No hammer to pull back. Is there a term that is more correct in your opinion? Please explain your adversity to the term and your choice for the correct term. __________________ We help people relocate to Rehoboth Beach Delaware. Our Site: www.Kate-Jody.com

January 14, 2002, 04:32 PM	#25
Jody Hudson Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2000 Location: Near Rehoboth Beach Delaware Posts: 1,140	I wonder... actually it is not truely double action as there is no other action, single action, hammer pulling choice. It is pull trigger as only choice. Pull trigger twice, two shots, bang-bang. Ohhh and one other thing... a bit of an OWW after a dozen or so shots in practice. The little pistol is almost weightless and has only room for one and a half fingers on the grip. It would feel better to use the middle finger to pull the trigger, BUT that puts the index finger out past the end of the barrel which is NOT good. __________________ We help people relocate to Rehoboth Beach Delaware. Our Site: www.Kate-Jody.com