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Old August 21, 2002, 10:43 AM   #9
Blackhawk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2001
Posts: 5,040
agricola,

Quote:
it seems to me that at some stage it was not a "natural right" (in terms of to keep and bear arms) as it seems to have been developed post the English Civil War, at least in the Anglo-American experience.
To prove to yourself that it is a natural right, just look at animals. "Flight or fight" is universal among them, and us. If you manage to sneak up on a squirrel and grab it, you'll be very unpleasantly surprised at how violently it defends itself without ever having asked whether or not it has that right.

You come after me with rocks, who says I cannot defend myself with rocks, sticks, fire, or whatever else is available? You? I'm not going to ask! If I can't flee, you've got a fight, and "fair fight" is an oxymoron. There is not a right that is more natural or ranks higher than the right of self defense.

The quest for better armaments didn't begin with man against man. It began with man against nature, then man saw that the tools could be used for political purposes against other men.
Quote:
many many people in the UK consider health a "natural right" and care as deeply about the NHS as you do about RKBA, yet its another thing that doesnt seem to cross the pond very well.
Nobody has a "natural right" to enjoy the wealth of others for their own benefit. It's a healthful habit to eat, is it not? Take my food that I'm planning to get through the winter with, and you'll have a fight because you're infringing on my natural right to survive.

Your right to survive is your own. Take care of it yourself. So is mine, and I will, thank you. Likewise, your right to defend yourself is your own, and it is NOT your natural right for me to provide for your food or your defense even though I may do so.

Natural rights exist without the blessing of any other person or group. Once you understand that, many confusing things will begin to make sense to you.
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