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Blind Tree Frog · January 14, 2005, 12:47 AM

I know little about krav manga, so take this with a grain of salt.

If you beleive it's going to end up on the ground, look into JJ.

The history of Judo/JJ/BJJ as I remember it basically consists of the follow.

Long time ago in japan the samurai developed a fighting style that developed into JuJitsu (note, an -istu ending means it's focused on fighting/war, a -do ending means it's focused more on the self/sport). Problem is, the training for this basically consisted of getting into battles. Lots of people died and it didn't really work.

So this guy came along (who's name I don't remember, but I really should) and developed Judo which was a more friendly version. Structured rules meant that they could train in a controled enviroment and still become highly leathal. In fact, the test of skill was basically walking into the red light district of town, picking a fight, and dropping the guy in one hit. If it took more then one, you weren't good enough yet.

Judo got popular and was selected as a "state martial arts" of sorts. Eventually this lead to Judo vs Jujitsu competitions which judo won every time (except one back in day). Not that this really means anything, but I took judo, so forgive me for bragging. Anyhow, because of this, Jujistu fell by the way side and Judo took over in it's place.

Couple decades ago a branch of judo broke off and took the name of Jujitsu. I don't remember which branch or anything, I just remember it happened. Anyhow, the Gracies studied this and went back to brazil, which at the time was fairly brutal place to live. Now, the Gracies were a massive family. Basically the way that they trained was one would want to try a new move out, so he'd pick a fight at a party. The other 30 gracies at the party would keep the fight to just the two of them while the Gracie tried out the new move. Needless to say, it got a reputation of being a very brutal style (which is why I dont like a lot of BJJ practicioners). As far as what is different between it and Jujistu or the original JJ, I can't say.

BTW, as far as BJJ vs other styles. I believe the Gracies have a standing challenge against anyone that wants to fight them. The old masters in china don't bother with this ****, so who knows. There was a Judo vs BJJ match a while back though. One of the Gracies went up against.. I believe an olympic class (couple times over) black belt. The general consensus from everyone was that if the mat wasn't so soft, Gracie wouldn't of stayed conscious long enough to have his arm broken in 2 places and choked out. So what should you take from this? It doesn't matter what style you have. It matters who is in the fight.

Anyhow, as all 3 styles more or less come from the same root (I really want to say that the split happened like 60 years ago and BJJ is no older then 20 years, but I'm pulling those numbers out of my ass) and thus are very similar. Like I said before, the main difference is that Judo views the fight as starting standing so control there and drop them to the ground hard and B/JJ views the fight as ending up on the ground so control there. A good school in either really will focus on both aspects however.

BTW, with basic throws in Judo, I've made people bounce on the ground. I say this only because I agree with you that the fight will often end up on the ground, but there is something to be said about how they get to the ground. Dont' focus on just one aspect of the style and ignore the rest of it. I've talked to many BJJ practicioners who only seem to know one take down, hoping to own the fight on the ground. Even though when I took judo we focused a lot on the standing aspect, we spent almost as much time on the ground working there too just incase we weren't the ones doing the taking down.

But yeah, sounds like BJJ might work for you. Judo schools tend to be a bit more sport oriented, but you might find one you like there too. Go check a couple schools out. Talk to the teachers. Just don't expect to be able to defend yourself well for a few years. Well... Give it a year at least, grappling styles generally seem to show results a bit sooner since you can get away with brute force instead of finesse many times. But the fancy stuff like a rear sacrifice throw to an arm bar (falll on your back, with them flying through the air, when they land their arm is broken) will take time, especially to do them well and consistently.

EDIT:

BTW, the reason I don't like many BJJ practicioners is because of the brutality aspect. Many take it just because "it's the most brutal art in the world". It's not the art form that is brutal, but the person practicing it. BJJ is no more or less brutal then any other style, it's all in how you use it.

January 14, 2005, 12:47 AM	#16
Blind Tree Frog Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2005 Posts: 298	I know little about krav manga, so take this with a grain of salt. If you beleive it's going to end up on the ground, look into JJ. The history of Judo/JJ/BJJ as I remember it basically consists of the follow. Long time ago in japan the samurai developed a fighting style that developed into JuJitsu (note, an -istu ending means it's focused on fighting/war, a -do ending means it's focused more on the self/sport). Problem is, the training for this basically consisted of getting into battles. Lots of people died and it didn't really work. So this guy came along (who's name I don't remember, but I really should) and developed Judo which was a more friendly version. Structured rules meant that they could train in a controled enviroment and still become highly leathal. In fact, the test of skill was basically walking into the red light district of town, picking a fight, and dropping the guy in one hit. If it took more then one, you weren't good enough yet. Judo got popular and was selected as a "state martial arts" of sorts. Eventually this lead to Judo vs Jujitsu competitions which judo won every time (except one back in day). Not that this really means anything, but I took judo, so forgive me for bragging. Anyhow, because of this, Jujistu fell by the way side and Judo took over in it's place. Couple decades ago a branch of judo broke off and took the name of Jujitsu. I don't remember which branch or anything, I just remember it happened. Anyhow, the Gracies studied this and went back to brazil, which at the time was fairly brutal place to live. Now, the Gracies were a massive family. Basically the way that they trained was one would want to try a new move out, so he'd pick a fight at a party. The other 30 gracies at the party would keep the fight to just the two of them while the Gracie tried out the new move. Needless to say, it got a reputation of being a very brutal style (which is why I dont like a lot of BJJ practicioners). As far as what is different between it and Jujistu or the original JJ, I can't say. BTW, as far as BJJ vs other styles. I believe the Gracies have a standing challenge against anyone that wants to fight them. The old masters in china don't bother with this ****, so who knows. There was a Judo vs BJJ match a while back though. One of the Gracies went up against.. I believe an olympic class (couple times over) black belt. The general consensus from everyone was that if the mat wasn't so soft, Gracie wouldn't of stayed conscious long enough to have his arm broken in 2 places and choked out. So what should you take from this? It doesn't matter what style you have. It matters who is in the fight. Anyhow, as all 3 styles more or less come from the same root (I really want to say that the split happened like 60 years ago and BJJ is no older then 20 years, but I'm pulling those numbers out of my ass) and thus are very similar. Like I said before, the main difference is that Judo views the fight as starting standing so control there and drop them to the ground hard and B/JJ views the fight as ending up on the ground so control there. A good school in either really will focus on both aspects however. BTW, with basic throws in Judo, I've made people bounce on the ground. I say this only because I agree with you that the fight will often end up on the ground, but there is something to be said about how they get to the ground. Dont' focus on just one aspect of the style and ignore the rest of it. I've talked to many BJJ practicioners who only seem to know one take down, hoping to own the fight on the ground. Even though when I took judo we focused a lot on the standing aspect, we spent almost as much time on the ground working there too just incase we weren't the ones doing the taking down. But yeah, sounds like BJJ might work for you. Judo schools tend to be a bit more sport oriented, but you might find one you like there too. Go check a couple schools out. Talk to the teachers. Just don't expect to be able to defend yourself well for a few years. Well... Give it a year at least, grappling styles generally seem to show results a bit sooner since you can get away with brute force instead of finesse many times. But the fancy stuff like a rear sacrifice throw to an arm bar (falll on your back, with them flying through the air, when they land their arm is broken) will take time, especially to do them well and consistently. EDIT: BTW, the reason I don't like many BJJ practicioners is because of the brutality aspect. Many take it just because "it's the most brutal art in the world". It's not the art form that is brutal, but the person practicing it. BJJ is no more or less brutal then any other style, it's all in how you use it.