What did I see???

saands · November 18, 2005, 08:42 PM

I passed by my local shop on my way somewhere else, so I didn't have all my powers of concentration with me at the time. Anyway, I was shown a small (PPK sized) 9x19 pistol with a 9 round double stack mag. It was DAO, which I normally abhor, but this trigger was really smooth. It had a polymer frame and a black stainless slide and a manual safety that actually said "Fire" when it was in that position. They said it was new on the market and I recall that is was from Cocoa, FL, (I connected that with my Witness) and I "thought" that the brand was SKYY (yeah ... like the vodka) ... but I can't find any info on it when I google it. It was pretty reasonably priced and I was wondering if anyone had tried one long enough to form opinions about them.

Any ideas at all?

TIA,
Saands

kirkcdl · November 18, 2005, 10:52 PM

Saands,are you sure it was a 9X19 and not 9mmMak?Sounds a lot like a P64...

wardog · November 18, 2005, 11:32 PM

I want to say Kel Tec, but with a safety?

http://www.kel-tec.com/prod01.htm

saands · November 19, 2005, 12:05 AM

KirkCDL: Yeah, I'm sure it was 9x19 ... the "PPK" sized thing that I laid it on top of to judge its size WAS my P64

... and the frame was polymer for sure ... and the safety was opposite the P64 (down was for fire on this one ... like it should be).

Wardog: Yeah ... it looked a lot like a Kel-Tec and supposedly made just a few miles down the street ... and pretty clearly aimed at Kel-Tec's market niche.

wardog · November 19, 2005, 01:26 AM

I have no idea then, but it's bugging me. The little Taurus Millenium has a safety but I'm sure that's not it either.

Let us know what the heck it is when you find out.

**JohnKSa** · November 19, 2005, 01:32 AM

Heritage Arms pistol? I thought they were out of business...

saands · November 19, 2005, 02:22 PM

Well ... It WAS a Skyy ... a Skyy CPX-1 to be precise. http://www.skyyindustries.com/firearms.html

I don't know when they came out, but it must have been recently as there is NO info on the net, yet.

Saands

wardog · November 19, 2005, 09:25 PM

interesting. Never heard of em. The "testimonials" sound a little made up though.

Man, that thing looks exactly like a Kel Tec with a safety.

MostToysWins · November 19, 2005, 09:28 PM

It basically IS a Kel Tec.

From what I have heard it was designed by an ex Kel Tec employee.

He basically took the Kel Tec P-11 design and improved on it.

I think I saw a thread on THR about it.

saands · November 20, 2005, 08:41 PM

MostToysWins: I'm interested in reading some more about it ... I did a search on THR for "SKYY" and another for "CPX" and neither came up with anything ... any ideas where else you might have seen something on it? I'd love to hear some first-hand impresions that don't come from the website. I may be able to make a reasonable trade on one and I actually like the fact that they have a manual safety (just call me old-fashioned).

TIA,

Saands

MostToysWins · November 21, 2005, 07:04 AM

Saands,

Here you go, I tracked down the thread for you...here is the link

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread....hreadid=457903

Hope this helps!

MTW

saands · November 21, 2005, 09:48 AM

Thanks for the link ... but OHHHHH! ... NOT what I wanted to read. I really liked the feel of this little pistol, but it appears that an employee or two has gone out and offered some "unbiased" reviews under the pretense that they are just satisfied customers and has no connection with Skyy Industries. The "review" was as derogotory toward the KelTec as it was complimentary to the CPX-1. Proof is always hard to find without a warrant - but here is the original ktog thread:. If it turns out that the poster is indeed a VP at Skyy as it appears, then I have little faith in the longevity of the company and no desire to grace them with my business. I'd rather pay twice that to a company with scruples. I'm really bummed about this development, as I woke up this AM ready to buy one. Makes you really wonder what people are thinking ...

Saands

ps ... edited to add that I got tired of wondering so I called the company and asked to talk to the President. I asked him point blank if he knew about the posts on the KTOG forum. He acknowledged that it was a VP at Skyy that had tried to address some misinformation that had been circulating with respect to their pistol being a copy of a P11. I asked him if he was aware that his VP had outright lied to the forum when directly questioned about his working there and he seemed genuinely shocked and dissappointed to hear of that. I'm still not sure whether or not I'd give these a try, but in the half an hour that that I talked to the president, he sounded a lot more credible than the VP. I just hope that he gives the guy a serious dressing down for it.

saands · November 30, 2005, 04:56 PM

I just got to the FFL today and picked up the two-tone CPX-1. I really liked the stainless slide and it felt just right in my hand. I took it home for a rapid clean and then off to the range.

The first thing that I did was shoot a mag of each of the types of ammo that I had over the Chrony to see what the 3.1" bbl gave me. I can send that data if you are interested. (I'll just insert that data down a ways ...)

I then hung up a couple of targets at 10yds and slow fired a magazine into each (off-hand). By my estimates this CPX-1 shot the Winchester White Box FMJ ammo into a 9-shot group of about 3.2 inches. It shot the Fiocchi 121gr JHP into a 9-shot group of 2.7 inches. The sights were easy to see, but I wasn't thrilled that it shot, on average, 3 inches high at 10 yds.

The following brands of ammo were tested:

Winchester White Box 115gr FMJ (1021 fps)
Remington UMC 115gr JHP (1005 fps)
Sellior and Bellot 115gr JHP (not measured)
Brown Bear 115gr FMJ (785 fps ... this stuff redefines MILD!)
Brown Bear 145gr JHP (925 fps)
Fiocchi 115gr JHP (985 fps)
Handloaded 124gr XTP-HP (1,025fps)

I shot at least 3 mags of each ammunition except the S&B and the Brown Bear 145gr, of which I only ran one mag and 2 rounds through, respectively.

In total, I shot 17 magazines through the CPX-1. I had 10 failures to eject, 2 failures to feed (one each with the S&B and Remington), two failures to ignite (S&B and reload with CCI-500 primer), and two delayed ignitions (Remington and WWB). The only brand that had zero malfunctions was the Brown Bear 115gr FMJ which incidentally yielded velocities less than 800fps from the 3.1" barrel. The delayed ignitions took a split second to fire, but there was an audible click of the primer strike and after a perceptible delay the round went off.

My opinion is that the pistols mainspring was chosen to optimize the trigger pull and it may be that it isn't quite strong enough to provide reliable ignition. This isn't a target pistol, however, and I'm sure that you would agree that reliability is paramount. I should note that both of the failures to ignite did ignite on the second pull of the trigger.

All in all, I really liked the look and feel of the pistol. The trigger was smooth and easy (maybe a little too easy for reliable ignition) and the sights were quite usable. Although one of the mags wouldn't hold the slide open when I tested it manually, all 4 magazines that I have held the slide open under normal firing conditions and that is all that really matters. The frequency of failures that I experienced with this pistol, however, was fully an order of magnitude too high for my tolerance. I have purchased many pistols (new in the box) and my experiences have been that they typically fail at rates considerably less than 1% and this one failed at a rate of 9.2% over the first 153 rounds using 7 different types of ammunition. I was really hoping that I would get a winner with this, but I feel like that just didn't happen.

Saands

wardog · November 30, 2005, 06:46 PM

Saands,

Thanks for the review. Too bad it doesn't sound like an out of the box winner, but maybe some more break in rounds and/or different springs will make it more reliable.

Someone has to step and be first sometimes. Thanks for doing it and reporting your findings.

saands · November 30, 2005, 08:46 PM

WD: Maybe some number of rounds would smooth it out and maybe some different springs would make it more reliable. I don't know, but I think that I'll let the next guinnea pig make that investment.

Saands

astra9m · December 1, 2005, 11:15 AM

Great gun I have 600 rounds plus through mine one failer to iginite and when I pulled the round it had a good strike on it so I think it was the ammo. It did fire on the secound strike. I love mine and I cant wait to see what skyy does next. I put 3'' groups at 12y and I am happy with that from a 3'' barrel.

November 18, 2005, 08:42 PM	#1
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	What did I see??? I passed by my local shop on my way somewhere else, so I didn't have all my powers of concentration with me at the time. Anyway, I was shown a small (PPK sized) 9x19 pistol with a 9 round double stack mag. It was DAO, which I normally abhor, but this trigger was really smooth. It had a polymer frame and a black stainless slide and a manual safety that actually said "Fire" when it was in that position. They said it was new on the market and I recall that is was from Cocoa, FL, (I connected that with my Witness) and I "thought" that the brand was SKYY (yeah ... like the vodka) ... but I can't find any info on it when I google it. It was pretty reasonably priced and I was wondering if anyone had tried one long enough to form opinions about them. Any ideas at all? TIA, Saands

November 19, 2005, 01:32 AM	#6
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,992	Heritage Arms pistol? I thought they were out of business... __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

November 19, 2005, 09:28 PM	#9
MostToysWins Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 274	It basically IS a Kel Tec. From what I have heard it was designed by an ex Kel Tec employee. He basically took the Kel Tec P-11 design and improved on it. I think I saw a thread on THR about it. __________________ Sig P226 9mm : CZ 75B Compact : Glock G26 : CZ 2075 RAMI 9mm : S&W Model 60 .38 : Ruger GP-100 6" : Beretta .22 Minx

November 21, 2005, 07:04 AM	#11
MostToysWins Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2005 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 274	Saands, Here you go, I tracked down the thread for you...here is the link http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread....hreadid=457903 Hope this helps! MTW __________________ Sig P226 9mm : CZ 75B Compact : Glock G26 : CZ 2075 RAMI 9mm : S&W Model 60 .38 : Ruger GP-100 6" : Beretta .22 Minx

November 21, 2005, 09:48 AM	#12
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	Thanks for the link ... but OHHHHH! ... NOT what I wanted to read. I really liked the feel of this little pistol, but it appears that an employee or two has gone out and offered some "unbiased" reviews under the pretense that they are just satisfied customers and has no connection with Skyy Industries. The "review" was as derogotory toward the KelTec as it was complimentary to the CPX-1. Proof is always hard to find without a warrant - but here is the original ktog thread:. If it turns out that the poster is indeed a VP at Skyy as it appears, then I have little faith in the longevity of the company and no desire to grace them with my business. I'd rather pay twice that to a company with scruples. I'm really bummed about this development, as I woke up this AM ready to buy one. Makes you really wonder what people are thinking ... Saands ps ... edited to add that I got tired of wondering so I called the company and asked to talk to the President. I asked him point blank if he knew about the posts on the KTOG forum. He acknowledged that it was a VP at Skyy that had tried to address some misinformation that had been circulating with respect to their pistol being a copy of a P11. I asked him if he was aware that his VP had outright lied to the forum when directly questioned about his working there and he seemed genuinely shocked and dissappointed to hear of that. I'm still not sure whether or not I'd give these a try, but in the half an hour that that I talked to the president, he sounded a lot more credible than the VP. I just hope that he gives the guy a serious dressing down for it. Last edited by saands; November 21, 2005 at 12:59 PM.

November 18, 2005, 10:52 PM	#2
kirkcdl Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2002 Location: Roseburg,ORYGUN Posts: 821	Saands,are you sure it was a 9X19 and not 9mmMak?Sounds a lot like a P64...

November 18, 2005, 11:32 PM	#3
wardog Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 46	I want to say Kel Tec, but with a safety? http://www.kel-tec.com/prod01.htm

November 19, 2005, 12:05 AM	#4
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	KirkCDL: Yeah, I'm sure it was 9x19 ... the "PPK" sized thing that I laid it on top of to judge its size WAS my P64 ... and the frame was polymer for sure ... and the safety was opposite the P64 (down was for fire on this one ... like it should be). Wardog: Yeah ... it looked a lot like a Kel-Tec and supposedly made just a few miles down the street ... and pretty clearly aimed at Kel-Tec's market niche.

November 19, 2005, 01:26 AM	#5
wardog Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 46	I have no idea then, but it's bugging me. The little Taurus Millenium has a safety but I'm sure that's not it either. Let us know what the heck it is when you find out.

November 19, 2005, 02:22 PM	#7
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	Well ... It WAS a Skyy ... a Skyy CPX-1 to be precise. http://www.skyyindustries.com/firearms.html I don't know when they came out, but it must have been recently as there is NO info on the net, yet. Saands

November 19, 2005, 09:25 PM	#8
wardog Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 46	interesting. Never heard of em. The "testimonials" sound a little made up though. Man, that thing looks exactly like a Kel Tec with a safety.

November 20, 2005, 08:41 PM	#10
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	MostToysWins: I'm interested in reading some more about it ... I did a search on THR for "SKYY" and another for "CPX" and neither came up with anything ... any ideas where else you might have seen something on it? I'd love to hear some first-hand impresions that don't come from the website. I may be able to make a reasonable trade on one and I actually like the fact that they have a manual safety (just call me old-fashioned). TIA, Saands

November 30, 2005, 04:56 PM	#13
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	I just got to the FFL today and picked up the two-tone CPX-1. I really liked the stainless slide and it felt just right in my hand. I took it home for a rapid clean and then off to the range. The first thing that I did was shoot a mag of each of the types of ammo that I had over the Chrony to see what the 3.1" bbl gave me. I can send that data if you are interested. (I'll just insert that data down a ways ...) I then hung up a couple of targets at 10yds and slow fired a magazine into each (off-hand). By my estimates this CPX-1 shot the Winchester White Box FMJ ammo into a 9-shot group of about 3.2 inches. It shot the Fiocchi 121gr JHP into a 9-shot group of 2.7 inches. The sights were easy to see, but I wasn't thrilled that it shot, on average, 3 inches high at 10 yds. The following brands of ammo were tested: Winchester White Box 115gr FMJ (1021 fps) Remington UMC 115gr JHP (1005 fps) Sellior and Bellot 115gr JHP (not measured) Brown Bear 115gr FMJ (785 fps ... this stuff redefines MILD!) Brown Bear 145gr JHP (925 fps) Fiocchi 115gr JHP (985 fps) Handloaded 124gr XTP-HP (1,025fps) I shot at least 3 mags of each ammunition except the S&B and the Brown Bear 145gr, of which I only ran one mag and 2 rounds through, respectively. In total, I shot 17 magazines through the CPX-1. I had 10 failures to eject, 2 failures to feed (one each with the S&B and Remington), two failures to ignite (S&B and reload with CCI-500 primer), and two delayed ignitions (Remington and WWB). The only brand that had zero malfunctions was the Brown Bear 115gr FMJ which incidentally yielded velocities less than 800fps from the 3.1" barrel. The delayed ignitions took a split second to fire, but there was an audible click of the primer strike and after a perceptible delay the round went off. My opinion is that the pistols mainspring was chosen to optimize the trigger pull and it may be that it isn't quite strong enough to provide reliable ignition. This isn't a target pistol, however, and I'm sure that you would agree that reliability is paramount. I should note that both of the failures to ignite did ignite on the second pull of the trigger. All in all, I really liked the look and feel of the pistol. The trigger was smooth and easy (maybe a little too easy for reliable ignition) and the sights were quite usable. Although one of the mags wouldn't hold the slide open when I tested it manually, all 4 magazines that I have held the slide open under normal firing conditions and that is all that really matters. The frequency of failures that I experienced with this pistol, however, was fully an order of magnitude too high for my tolerance. I have purchased many pistols (new in the box) and my experiences have been that they typically fail at rates considerably less than 1% and this one failed at a rate of 9.2% over the first 153 rounds using 7 different types of ammunition. I was really hoping that I would get a winner with this, but I feel like that just didn't happen. Saands

November 30, 2005, 06:46 PM	#14
wardog Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 46	Saands, Thanks for the review. Too bad it doesn't sound like an out of the box winner, but maybe some more break in rounds and/or different springs will make it more reliable. Someone has to step and be first sometimes. Thanks for doing it and reporting your findings.

November 30, 2005, 08:46 PM	#15
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	WD: Maybe some number of rounds would smooth it out and maybe some different springs would make it more reliable. I don't know, but I think that I'll let the next guinnea pig make that investment. Saands

December 1, 2005, 11:15 AM	#16
astra9m Member Join Date: December 9, 2004 Location: Goshen,Indiana Posts: 57	Great gun I have 600 rounds plus through mine one failer to iginite and when I pulled the round it had a good strike on it so I think it was the ammo. It did fire on the secound strike. I love mine and I cant wait to see what skyy does next. I put 3'' groups at 12y and I am happy with that from a 3'' barrel. __________________ ASTRA9M Its not how many it holds, its how well you can place them. Astra A-70 Astra A-100 Sig 245 Glock 31 Glock 17 Glock 27 Cobra C9 Beretta 21 Norinco Sks Mossberg security Im addicted