1911 unburned powder residue

gregjc9 · June 12, 2010, 01:32 PM

Been reloading since this past winter, and still learning. I'm getting a fair amount of unburned powder on my arms, etc, after shooting my Kimbers. My loads are 200gr Berrys plated with CCI300 primers, and 5.3-5.4gr W231 with OAL of 1.235. I use a Lee Classic Turret and 4 die set, along with the Pro Auto powder drop (a .49 disk yields around 5.3 to 5.4 gr of W231).

The load is quite accurate, no problems feeding or ejecting, and overall I'm quite pleased with it. I use the Lee FCD, with no apparent setback issues, so I think the crimp is ok. Should I up the load, or keep it as it is and put up with the mess? I could probably go a little hotter on the load using the plated bullets with no ill effects on them. (My son shoots also, and it bothers/worries him more than me.)

mrawesome22 · June 12, 2010, 01:40 PM

What cartridge is the gun chambered for?

drail · June 12, 2010, 01:58 PM

Is there a lot of soot on outside of the empty cases as well? If so your brass is not expanding enough to seal the chamber. Do any cases ever split? Is the gun equipped with a compensator?

**Unclenick** · June 12, 2010, 02:15 PM

With those bullet weights and COL and charge weights, he's running .45 ACP with Berry's plated 200 grain SWC (their only 200 grain bullet for the .45 ACP).

231 is a great metering powder, but I've never heard of anyone claiming it was especially clean. You're running about 12,000 psi with it, according to QuickLOAD, and should be getting about 840 fps from a 5" barrel. If you are getting much less than that, then you've got still lower pressure, which would help explain the unburned powder. If the primer is pushing those bullets out into the throat before the powder gets burning, that could cause that, and it means you need more crimp.

Another possibility it to try the same charge weight of Hodgdon Universal Clays, or better still, about 4.0 grains of Hodgdon Clays, which is much faster and would run that bullet at about 16,000 psi, which is more typical of .45 ACP commercial hardball. Clays is lighter than Universal and the same disk that throws 5.3-5.4 grains of Universal should throw 4.0 grains of Clays. I should be about 0.58 CC disk, if they have one in that number?

Walkalong · June 12, 2010, 02:57 PM

If you wants squeaky clean (or as close as it gets) N310 is a good one. N320 as well.

I have shot a ton of W231 in .45, and it shoots great. It isn't the cleanest out there, but certainly not the dirtiest either.

g.willikers · June 12, 2010, 03:48 PM

I use 5.1 grains of W231 / HP38, with the 200 gr swc, and get consistent 850 f/s from a 5" barrel and no unburned powder.
Maybe you're using a little too much powder for the results.
Load some lighter ones and see.
231 seems to produce the most consistent results of all the powders that I've tried, including the very clean burning Clays.
231 does dirty up the gun some, but it's a soft, easy to remove residue.

Jim Watson · June 12, 2010, 05:39 PM

1. I have shot light loads of W231 and ended up looking like somebody held a pepper mill over my arms. Burnup is not great at low pressures.

2. Are you check weighing your powder charge or do you think you are loading 5.3 grains of W21 because the Lee chart says so? All the tolerance on the disk holes is negative, I don't think I ever got as much as the rated load in the little bit of loading I did with one.

Walkalong · June 12, 2010, 05:53 PM

Forgot Solo 1000. It's another very clean powder when operating at low pressures. 700X is almost as clean.

gregjc9 · June 12, 2010, 09:29 PM

Yes, .45ACP, sorry I left that out. One of the Kimbers is a 5" and the other is a 3" . I'm not too worried about how dirty the guns get. Just didnt like the idea of a lot of unburnt powder on my son when he shoots.

There is no soot on the cartridges, outside of normal. No splits in them either. And no compensator as well.

The charge has been weighed, so I know exactly (as close as I can with the Lee Pro powder drop) what the charge is per disk cavity. One of the first things I did, was create a spreadsheet table for the two powders I use (Power Pistol and W231), listing the exact charge per each disk cavity for each powder. I only used the LEE table to get an initial starting point on the spreadsheet.

I like the W231 as it seems to be one of the better metering powders. I dont care about squeaky clean guns afterwards, that's what Hopes #9 and a brush are for.

I just dont care for my arms to look like I've taken a pepper shower.

I can try to tighten up the crimp a little, but I really think I've got it adjusted about right, so that any more and the crimp will start looking like a roll crimp. But the next batch I will try adjusting it a little more if I can and see what the effects are.

I've been using Sierra's load data, which for a 200gr bullet is 5.0 to 6.4gr of W231. If I went from a .49 disk, dropping 5.3gr to a .46 disk, the powder drop would be 4.8gr of W231, which would be well below the minimum.

I'll try the crimp and see what that does. Thanks all.

mrawesome22 · June 12, 2010, 09:47 PM

Do you have a chronograph?

gregjc9 · June 13, 2010, 09:39 AM

No, not yet. I know, I really need one to know exactly what is going on.

June 12, 2010, 01:32 PM	#1
gregjc9 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Location: Northern Va Posts: 501	1911 unburned powder residue Been reloading since this past winter, and still learning. I'm getting a fair amount of unburned powder on my arms, etc, after shooting my Kimbers. My loads are 200gr Berrys plated with CCI300 primers, and 5.3-5.4gr W231 with OAL of 1.235. I use a Lee Classic Turret and 4 die set, along with the Pro Auto powder drop (a .49 disk yields around 5.3 to 5.4 gr of W231). The load is quite accurate, no problems feeding or ejecting, and overall I'm quite pleased with it. I use the Lee FCD, with no apparent setback issues, so I think the crimp is ok. Should I up the load, or keep it as it is and put up with the mess? I could probably go a little hotter on the load using the plated bullets with no ill effects on them. (My son shoots also, and it bothers/worries him more than me.)

June 12, 2010, 02:15 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,121	With those bullet weights and COL and charge weights, he's running .45 ACP with Berry's plated 200 grain SWC (their only 200 grain bullet for the .45 ACP). 231 is a great metering powder, but I've never heard of anyone claiming it was especially clean. You're running about 12,000 psi with it, according to QuickLOAD, and should be getting about 840 fps from a 5" barrel. If you are getting much less than that, then you've got still lower pressure, which would help explain the unburned powder. If the primer is pushing those bullets out into the throat before the powder gets burning, that could cause that, and it means you need more crimp. Another possibility it to try the same charge weight of Hodgdon Universal Clays, or better still, about 4.0 grains of Hodgdon Clays, which is much faster and would run that bullet at about 16,000 psi, which is more typical of .45 ACP commercial hardball. Clays is lighter than Universal and the same disk that throws 5.3-5.4 grains of Universal should throw 4.0 grains of Clays. I should be about 0.58 CC disk, if they have one in that number? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 12, 2010, 01:40 PM	#2
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	What cartridge is the gun chambered for?

June 12, 2010, 01:58 PM	#3
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	Is there a lot of soot on outside of the empty cases as well? If so your brass is not expanding enough to seal the chamber. Do any cases ever split? Is the gun equipped with a compensator?

June 12, 2010, 02:57 PM	#5
Walkalong Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2007 Location: Al. Posts: 196	If you wants squeaky clean (or as close as it gets) N310 is a good one. N320 as well. I have shot a ton of W231 in .45, and it shoots great. It isn't the cleanest out there, but certainly not the dirtiest either.

June 12, 2010, 03:48 PM	#6
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	I use 5.1 grains of W231 / HP38, with the 200 gr swc, and get consistent 850 f/s from a 5" barrel and no unburned powder. Maybe you're using a little too much powder for the results. Load some lighter ones and see. 231 seems to produce the most consistent results of all the powders that I've tried, including the very clean burning Clays. 231 does dirty up the gun some, but it's a soft, easy to remove residue.

June 12, 2010, 05:39 PM	#7
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,614	1. I have shot light loads of W231 and ended up looking like somebody held a pepper mill over my arms. Burnup is not great at low pressures. 2. Are you check weighing your powder charge or do you think you are loading 5.3 grains of W21 because the Lee chart says so? All the tolerance on the disk holes is negative, I don't think I ever got as much as the rated load in the little bit of loading I did with one.

June 12, 2010, 05:53 PM	#8
Walkalong Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2007 Location: Al. Posts: 196	Forgot Solo 1000. It's another very clean powder when operating at low pressures. 700X is almost as clean.

June 12, 2010, 09:29 PM	#9
gregjc9 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Location: Northern Va Posts: 501	Yes, .45ACP, sorry I left that out. One of the Kimbers is a 5" and the other is a 3" . I'm not too worried about how dirty the guns get. Just didnt like the idea of a lot of unburnt powder on my son when he shoots. There is no soot on the cartridges, outside of normal. No splits in them either. And no compensator as well. The charge has been weighed, so I know exactly (as close as I can with the Lee Pro powder drop) what the charge is per disk cavity. One of the first things I did, was create a spreadsheet table for the two powders I use (Power Pistol and W231), listing the exact charge per each disk cavity for each powder. I only used the LEE table to get an initial starting point on the spreadsheet. I like the W231 as it seems to be one of the better metering powders. I dont care about squeaky clean guns afterwards, that's what Hopes #9 and a brush are for. I just dont care for my arms to look like I've taken a pepper shower. I can try to tighten up the crimp a little, but I really think I've got it adjusted about right, so that any more and the crimp will start looking like a roll crimp. But the next batch I will try adjusting it a little more if I can and see what the effects are. I've been using Sierra's load data, which for a 200gr bullet is 5.0 to 6.4gr of W231. If I went from a .49 disk, dropping 5.3gr to a .46 disk, the powder drop would be 4.8gr of W231, which would be well below the minimum. I'll try the crimp and see what that does. Thanks all.

June 12, 2010, 09:47 PM	#10
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Do you have a chronograph?

June 13, 2010, 09:39 AM	#11
gregjc9 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2008 Location: Northern Va Posts: 501	No, not yet. I know, I really need one to know exactly what is going on.