Range Report: S&W Model 625-2 w/5" bbl (.45 AR/ACP)....

Stephen A. Camp · October 17, 2002, 04:58 PM

Hello. I bought this revolver on 12.08.89 for $460, but never really shot it all that much over the years. While I "liked" the gun, I've never really cared for the full-length underlug so common on S&Ws today. It's fine on a Colt Python, but just isn't my "cup of tea." The shooting that I had done with this thing had pretty much been limited to .45 ACP using the half-moon clips that came with the pistol as well as some full-moon clips I purchased later. I also rather quickly invested in a little handtool for removing the fired cases from the moon clips. I didn't like the Pachmayr "Gripper" stocks that came on the revolver and replaced them with the same company's "Compacts." (I know they should be wooden, but I've just put a pair on my Mountain Gun as well as my Model 24 so it'll be a little while!) It's had no trigger work. The DA pull is a bit heavier than on my other N-frames, but the SA is extremely light. I'm told that the DA's a bit heavier to insure ignition even if the moonclip's not exactly up flush with the rear of the cylinder; I don't know.

Anyway, here's the gun as currently set up and showing both full and half-moon clips loaded with .45 ACP rounds and the "tool of mercy."

A time back, I decided it was time to begin shooting other than my Browning HPs and 1911s............so I did! (I still shoot them very regularly, but I kind of like shooting wheelies, too!) I ordered 2000 R-P Auto Rim cases such that I could load/unload the gun "normally," i.e.: w/o the stinkin' moonclips. Jerry Miculek might be poison with them, but I'm not and simply prefer to work w/o the clips.

I'd also hoped to be able to get this thing to be a ballistic equal of the .45 Colt cartridge "honestly," but not too "hotly" loaded for the S&Ws. In that I did not succeed to my satisfaction, BUT I did get something pretty nice. More on that later.

Chronography: I also chronographed some handloaded Auto Rim rounds as well as some common .45 ACP factory rounds. The average velocities listed are based on 10-shot averages. The Extreme Spread and Standard Deviations are listed as well. The chronograph was 12' from the end of the muzzle. All figures are rounded to the nearest "full number." The chronograph was a Chrony Master w/printer and all those darned function thingys. (If I hit the wrong button, I'm dead.)

All cases are new R-P and all primers used are Winchester Large Pistol.

Handloaded .45 AR:
Rainier 200 gr PSWC
7.0 gr Unique
LOA: 1.23"
Average Velocity: 953 ft/sec
ES: 75 ft/sec
SD: 26 ft/sec

Sierra 200 gr "Competition" JFP (Don't know if this one's still even being made.)
4.2 gr Bullseye
LOA: 1.17"
Average Velocity: 697 ft/sec
ES: 34
SD: 15

Speer 230 gr Gold Dot Hollow Point
7.0 gr Unique
LOA: 1.23"
Average Velocity: 937 ft/sec
ES: 35
SD: 12

Rucker 185 gr "Competition Plus" CSWC
7.2 gr Unique
LOA: 1.25"
Average Velocity: 897 ft/sec
ES: 56
SD: 21

Rucker 230 gr CRN
7.2 gr Unique
LOA: 1.23"
Average Velocity: 895 ft/sec
ES: 67
SD: 20

Kead 255 gr CSWC
6.0 gr Unique
LOA: 1.20"
Average Velocity: 860 ft/sec
ES: 32
SD: 11

Speer 200 gr JHP (Pre-Gold Dot)
7.2 gr Unique
LOA: 1.18"
Average Velocity: 873 ft/sec
ES: 99
SD: 40

Factory .45 ACP:

Federal Classic 230 gr JHP
Average Velocity: 854 ft/sec
ES: 52
SD: 18

Federal 230 gr HydraShok (Old style truncated cone bullet)
Average Velocity: 901 ft/sec
ES: 18
SD: 7

Winchester USA 230 grain FMJ
Average Velocity: 804 ft/sec
ES: 14
SD: 5

Triton 230 gr QuikShok Prefrag +P
Average Velocity: 930 ft/sec
ES: 27
SD: 13

Remington 230 gr Golden Saber JHP
Average Velocity: 840 ft/sec
ES: 6
SD: 3

PMC 230 gr Starfire JHP
Average Velocity: 848 ft/sec
ES: 33
SD: 14

Note that this revolver seems to be more efficient in terms of ft/sec per grain of powder with the heavier slugs. Also, I have NEVER seen Golden Sabers have such uniform velocities as with these today. The USA ball was also surprisingly uniform.

Shooting: Shooting was done at 15, 25, and 50 yards. At 15 yards, all rounds were fired standing w/2-hand hold. As I was deciding on a load or two for this gun at this time, I fired from a rest at both 25 and 50 yards and used a 2-hand hold. All shooting was single-action.

15 Yards:

These are with the handloaded Auto Rims.

These are the factory .45 ACPs.

I strongly believe that the flyers in each group are me and not the ammo or the revolver.

.45 ACPs being loaded via the half-moon clips....

25 Yards:

I only fired two of the handloads at 25 yards and none of the ACP factory rounds. As mentioned earlier, I am selecting a load or two for this revolver as well as the range report.

This is likely THE load I'll do for the AR and this revolver. More on why later. It is the Kead 255 gr CSWC/6.0 gr Unique load.

Another promising load is the 230 gr Speer GDHP/7.0 gr Unique.

50 Yards:

This was also fired with the 255 gr CSWC and consists of 24 shots.

Just for grins, I fired a couple of the JHP handloads into some wet dirt I could still find for a really "scientific expansion test." As noted in other reports, I know that this translates to little, but seems to be of interest.

The round on the left is the old Speer 200 gr JHP while the other's the 230 gr GDHP by the same company.

(I'd meant to bring some 250 gr Hornady XTPs loaded over 6 gr Unique, but forgot to! I suspect that I'd get little if any expansion at roughly the 850 ft/sec they'd likely be travelling at. I also forgot that damned tool for taking the hulls out of the clips!)

It's clear that I like Unique powder and use it in several calibers. The fact that I have lots and lots of it is a factor, too. It's also the "old" Unique that's "dirty."

Here's the clean revolver before a shot was fired today.

...and after....

I've not tallied up how many rounds were fired, but quite a few. The "dirtiness" of this powder caused zero problems and won't next time either as the revolver will be cleaned today.

Observations: Recoil was very light and seemed lighter to me with this revolver than had the same (ACP) rounds been fired from one of my full-size 5" 1911s. Maybe that full-length underlug's not so ugly after all?

I also suspect that any of the rounds tried today are much more accurate than the target's show as there's human error involved, but I do note that this revolver with this powder and these bullets does like the heavier slugs. I'll likely not shoot lighter than 230 grains in it from now on.

In fact, I'll likely shoot only the 255 gr CSWC load.

The reason is that it's pleasant to shoot, yet has enough "oomph" (another "scientific" term) to "handle" anything needing it in Texas. I do NOT plan to use this revolver for defensive purposes so I'm not at all concerned with the handloads-for-self-defense-rhubarb that shows up frequently on the boards. Yet, were I required to do so, I suspect that the big, flat 255 gr slug would be "alright." I know it would be fine on coyotes, javelina, and other such critters as well as a Texas whitetail should it be within my self-imposed range of about 35 yards.

Also, right now the only company making AR cases is Remington. When new, one can load jacketed bullets meant for the automatic with no problems, but when resized for subsequent reloading, I cannot get them down enough to sufficiently grip jacketed bullets. Old time reloaders may remember this being the case with RP .45 ACP brass years ago. I've tried several different dies and combinations. Yet, the 255 gr slug's big enough that it works fine in both new and fired cases. The R-P stuff has been "fragile" to me in that any kind of roll crimp results in split cases within one to two loadings as well and if the case is not flared quite enough and I try to do the minimal, seating the bullet crushes the case much easier than in other calibers.

Such a revolver would also be good for shooting up handloads or factory rounds that don't work well in one's semiautomatic.

But, there may be hope! Starline Brass has announced that they will soon be offering .45 Auto Rim cases. I hope they're just a tad thicker. We'll see.

Though not even on the short list (for no good reason I can think of), this revolver could be an effective defensive weapon with current .45 ACP rounds using either the full or half-moon clips. I do see a problem with reloading but one or two at a time during a possible lull in the shooting, but it could be used.

I think it'd get a bad guy's attention....

Best.

Blackhawk · October 17, 2002, 05:35 PM

Another OUTSTANDING report, Stephen!

(And I see that your thumbnail is coming along nicely....

)

GunsnRovers · October 17, 2002, 05:36 PM

Thanks for the great report.

I bought the same gun in 1991 and sold it in 1993. I kick myself regularly for that moment of stupidity.

My search this summer for a local (PRK legal) M625 or M25 has proven fruitless.

I'll live vicariously through your range report.

Jeff

taco · October 17, 2002, 05:36 PM

Another excellent review Mr. Camp.
This is getting to be a habit with you... keep it up.

Very comprehensive and informative. I have been looking at some 45ACP revolvers to add one to my collection but due to my short fingers I'm afraid they will not "work" for me.

Looking forward to your next review.

ATTICUS · October 17, 2002, 07:31 PM

Ditto what the others said....and nice shootin! I've gotta get out with my M25 this weekend. Thanks for the detailed report.

marsh · October 17, 2002, 08:58 PM

Excellent report, as usual. Thank you. I recall the Remington brass of long ago in 9mm Luger was also very thin and wouldn't hold a jacketed bullet worth diddly.

marsh

Stephen A. Camp · October 17, 2002, 09:03 PM

Hello, sir. No, maybe I'm wrong, but I recall anything stamped "W-W" not working well in the early '70s! When I got my first box of Winchester USA all that changed.

I DO remember R-P cases in .45ACP being very thin.

Best.

dewey · October 17, 2002, 09:21 PM

I'm equally hungup on my .44SPLs and 25/625s. I'll print put your range data for my next handloading session. THANKS ! dan

Stephen A. Camp · October 17, 2002, 09:34 PM

Hello, Dewey. Glad to've been of service.

Best.

zeke · October 18, 2002, 05:56 AM

Stephen-another excellent range test. Have appreciated your earlier ones, been too busy to post for awhile. Redding makes a profile crimp die, that have found very useful for the lighter cast or jacketed bullets (with cannelures)using the auto rim brass. Works very well with the ashtrays. Starline has been promising 45 auto rim brass for awhile, ain't made em yet that am aware of. When and if they ever do, will be buying couple thousand.

nyetter · October 18, 2002, 10:06 AM

I want one

SteveC · October 18, 2002, 12:12 PM

Stephen,

You know, I'm really starting to think that we should get a way to archive your reviews.

Have you ever thought about doing more side by side comparisons? For example, I think it would be neat to see what a side by side comparison of your 625 vs. one of the your many fine 1911's.

Thanks again for the review. My ".45 fund" is just about to hit the minimum amount for a good used .45, so your reviews are especially valuable to me!

Steve

Stephen A. Camp · October 18, 2002, 12:16 PM

Hello, SteveC. Thank you. Tell ya' what, after lunch I'll kind of do what you mention. I will see if I can do a thread showing some groups with the same or similar loads from the S&W and other 1911s as well as the chronograph figures I have for each.

Best.

Stephen A. Camp · October 18, 2002, 01:33 PM

Hello. As was mentioned in a post above, a comparison between this revolver and some .45 ACP semis might be of interest. I might very well try and include such in future "Range Reports," but will put together something similar from existing figures and pictures now.

Velocity Comparisons:

Federal 230 gr HydraShok (Old Style Truncated Cone HP):

S&W M625-2: 901 ft/sec
Kimber Classic Custom: 870 ft/sec
Les Baer 5": 851 ft/sec

Remington 230 gr Golden Saber HP:

S&W M625-2: 840 ft/sec
Kimber Classic Custom: 847 ft/sec

Federal 230 gr Classic JHP:

S&W M625-2: 854 ft/sec
Kimber Classic Custom: 865 ft/sec
Les Baer 5": 842 ft/sec

These are the only figures I have common to both the revolver and the semis. You'll note that the Les Baer is included on but 2 of the entries. That's because it doesn't belong to me and some figures were taken from it at the same time I was getting them from my Kimber. Keep in mind that while these numbers may be guidelines, they're "true" only for these guns with those lots of ammo, but they should be close.

Grouping:

Human error is very likely more of a factor here than I'd like to admit, but I do think that if the load "shoots" for me, it should for you as well. It's very possible that some of the groups are significantly more accurate than others, but that I cannot hold true enough to discern it.

Three of the four groups fired here at 15 yards are common to the loads fired with the S&W M625 with both sets of targets being shot at 15 yards, standing w/2-hand hold. These were shot with a 5" STI Trojan.

Top Left: Federal HydraShok 230 gr JHP (Old style), PMC 230 gr Starfire JHP, and Bottom Right, Triton 230 gr QuikShok +P. The Bottom Left is the Corbon +P 165 gr PowRball.
You can check out how these rounds did from the revolver in the initial post in this thread.

Best.

SteveC · October 18, 2002, 09:04 PM

Of course, what you _really_ accomplished was to make me think I should save up longer and get the STI!

Stephen A. Camp · October 18, 2002, 09:21 PM

Hello, sir. "I feel your pain." Bawahahahaha! No, really, I do think they're worth the money for what you get. I've had excellent reliability and accuracy with both. Got about 1500 rnds through the 9mm and around a thousand through the .45 now.
As mentioned, they shoot tighter than I can.

So far, zero malfunctions in either.

Best.
.45 Standard 5" Trojan:

9mm Trojan Longslide 6" bbl:

Leafy · October 19, 2002, 08:35 PM

I just plunked the change down on a 4" 625 tonight. I am looking forward to picking it up and shooting it next weekend (damn waiting period!). Thanks for the input. I'll have to sample some of your recipes. I was thinking of the .460 Rowland (sp?) conversion. What do you guys think?

Stephen A. Camp · October 19, 2002, 08:38 PM

Hello. I think you'll really enjoy that revolver.
I don't have any personal experience with the conversion you mention so I am not competent to answer that one.

Best.

7th Fleet · October 19, 2002, 09:22 PM

Excellent report and I too have a 625 and it's one of my favorite revolvers. Mine has the 4" barrel with the standard rubber factory grips. I've owned the gun for over ten years and I've been meaning to change those grips but have never found a nice set of wood grips. Maybe at tomorrows gun show...

7th

Archie · October 20, 2002, 12:05 AM

Nice report. (That'll go down in your record...)

I agree with you about the 255 grain SWC bullets; they seem made for the 45 ACP.

I also agree with you about that silly underlug. I prefer the look and balance of the 1950 Target Model. But I'm a dinosaur.

I lost my 1955 Target Model some twenty years ago to an attack of poverty induced by a case of marraige. The woman is gone, but I didn't get the gun back. Still, I have a cut down 1917 that serves in the meanwhile.

jrp · October 20, 2002, 01:02 AM

Thanks for the excellent write-up Stephen. I ordered a 4" 625 thru gunfinder.net tonight after agonizing between it and an SA Trophy Match.

Note to GunsnRovers - both the 4" and 5" 625 with the internal lock are approved for sale in California. I'd prefer one sans lock, but I wanted a 4" and didn't want to spend a lot of time seaching for an older pre-lock 4" locally. I think they are not that common.

Thanks for the load info. I might try some W231 as well.
It seems to work well in my P220.

Where'd you get your AR brass?

Thanks!

uglygun · October 20, 2002, 01:24 AM

Are there any model 25 45ACP revolvers out there that were offered by S&W that are like the 625-2 in the original post?

I've still got a model 24 44Spl. and model 25 45ACP on my list of desired S&Ws to purchase, I know that I will eventually find a model 24 but I'm unsure about the 25s aside from a surplus 1917. Seems to me that most of the 45ACP revolvers that I see are all 625s and stainless as opposed to blued 25s.

Kermit · October 20, 2002, 03:37 PM

Good job there...I've been on the fence re: the 625 for a while. Seeing results like the one you have has me salivating for one...AGAIN!

Biggest downside I see are those moonclips (full & 1/2).

Johnny Guest · October 21, 2002, 01:08 AM

You're getting us spoiled with these. I wish the pro gun writers and "Evaluators" would do as good, and objective, a job in the magazine articles.

I have never been fond of the full barrel lug S&Ws, but you have done this one proud.

Does anyone here have any experience with the "Third-Moon" clips, which only hold two rounds of .45 ACP? I've seen them illustrated but never found any for sale at shop or gun show. They seem to make more sense for a partial ("TACKTICKUL") reload. But then, I really do like the look of the stubby little auto rim cartridges. I think I'm down to about 100 new unfired AR cases, and I'm looking forward to the Star Line brass, too.

But then again, I'm down to a 1917 S&W for an ACP revolver . . .

Best,
Johnny

Stephen A. Camp · October 21, 2002, 07:46 AM

Hello all and thank you.

.45 AR Brass: http://www14.inetba.com/tandtreloadi...Cat4503_2.ctlg

Best.

October 17, 2002, 04:58 PM	#1
Stephen A. Camp Staff In Memoriam Join Date: April 16, 1999 Posts: 2,570	Range Report: S&W Model 625-2 w/5" bbl (.45 AR/ACP).... Hello. I bought this revolver on 12.08.89 for $460, but never really shot it all that much over the years. While I "liked" the gun, I've never really cared for the full-length underlug so common on S&Ws today. It's fine on a Colt Python, but just isn't my "cup of tea." The shooting that I had done with this thing had pretty much been limited to .45 ACP using the half-moon clips that came with the pistol as well as some full-moon clips I purchased later. I also rather quickly invested in a little handtool for removing the fired cases from the moon clips. I didn't like the Pachmayr "Gripper" stocks that came on the revolver and replaced them with the same company's "Compacts." (I know they should be wooden, but I've just put a pair on my Mountain Gun as well as my Model 24 so it'll be a little while!) It's had no trigger work. The DA pull is a bit heavier than on my other N-frames, but the SA is extremely light. I'm told that the DA's a bit heavier to insure ignition even if the moonclip's not exactly up flush with the rear of the cylinder; I don't know. Anyway, here's the gun as currently set up and showing both full and half-moon clips loaded with .45 ACP rounds and the "tool of mercy." A time back, I decided it was time to begin shooting other than my Browning HPs and 1911s............so I did! (I still shoot them very regularly, but I kind of like shooting wheelies, too!) I ordered 2000 R-P Auto Rim cases such that I could load/unload the gun "normally," i.e.: w/o the stinkin' moonclips. Jerry Miculek might be poison with them, but I'm not and simply prefer to work w/o the clips. I'd also hoped to be able to get this thing to be a ballistic equal of the .45 Colt cartridge "honestly," but not too "hotly" loaded for the S&Ws. In that I did not succeed to my satisfaction, BUT I did get something pretty nice. More on that later. Chronography: I also chronographed some handloaded Auto Rim rounds as well as some common .45 ACP factory rounds. The average velocities listed are based on 10-shot averages. The Extreme Spread and Standard Deviations are listed as well. The chronograph was 12' from the end of the muzzle. All figures are rounded to the nearest "full number." The chronograph was a Chrony Master w/printer and all those darned function thingys. (If I hit the wrong button, I'm dead.) All cases are new R-P and all primers used are Winchester Large Pistol. Handloaded .45 AR: Rainier 200 gr PSWC 7.0 gr Unique LOA: 1.23" Average Velocity: 953 ft/sec ES: 75 ft/sec SD: 26 ft/sec Sierra 200 gr "Competition" JFP (Don't know if this one's still even being made.) 4.2 gr Bullseye LOA: 1.17" Average Velocity: 697 ft/sec ES: 34 SD: 15 Speer 230 gr Gold Dot Hollow Point 7.0 gr Unique LOA: 1.23" Average Velocity: 937 ft/sec ES: 35 SD: 12 Rucker 185 gr "Competition Plus" CSWC 7.2 gr Unique LOA: 1.25" Average Velocity: 897 ft/sec ES: 56 SD: 21 Rucker 230 gr CRN 7.2 gr Unique LOA: 1.23" Average Velocity: 895 ft/sec ES: 67 SD: 20 Kead 255 gr CSWC 6.0 gr Unique LOA: 1.20" Average Velocity: 860 ft/sec ES: 32 SD: 11 Speer 200 gr JHP (Pre-Gold Dot) 7.2 gr Unique LOA: 1.18" Average Velocity: 873 ft/sec ES: 99 SD: 40 Factory .45 ACP: Federal Classic 230 gr JHP Average Velocity: 854 ft/sec ES: 52 SD: 18 Federal 230 gr HydraShok (Old style truncated cone bullet) Average Velocity: 901 ft/sec ES: 18 SD: 7 Winchester USA 230 grain FMJ Average Velocity: 804 ft/sec ES: 14 SD: 5 Triton 230 gr QuikShok Prefrag +P Average Velocity: 930 ft/sec ES: 27 SD: 13 Remington 230 gr Golden Saber JHP Average Velocity: 840 ft/sec ES: 6 SD: 3 PMC 230 gr Starfire JHP Average Velocity: 848 ft/sec ES: 33 SD: 14 Note that this revolver seems to be more efficient in terms of ft/sec per grain of powder with the heavier slugs. Also, I have NEVER seen Golden Sabers have such uniform velocities as with these today. The USA ball was also surprisingly uniform. Shooting: Shooting was done at 15, 25, and 50 yards. At 15 yards, all rounds were fired standing w/2-hand hold. As I was deciding on a load or two for this gun at this time, I fired from a rest at both 25 and 50 yards and used a 2-hand hold. All shooting was single-action. 15 Yards: These are with the handloaded Auto Rims. These are the factory .45 ACPs. I strongly believe that the flyers in each group are me and not the ammo or the revolver. .45 ACPs being loaded via the half-moon clips.... 25 Yards: I only fired two of the handloads at 25 yards and none of the ACP factory rounds. As mentioned earlier, I am selecting a load or two for this revolver as well as the range report. This is likely THE load I'll do for the AR and this revolver. More on why later. It is the Kead 255 gr CSWC/6.0 gr Unique load. Another promising load is the 230 gr Speer GDHP/7.0 gr Unique. 50 Yards: This was also fired with the 255 gr CSWC and consists of 24 shots. Just for grins, I fired a couple of the JHP handloads into some wet dirt I could still find for a really "scientific expansion test." As noted in other reports, I know that this translates to little, but seems to be of interest. The round on the left is the old Speer 200 gr JHP while the other's the 230 gr GDHP by the same company. (I'd meant to bring some 250 gr Hornady XTPs loaded over 6 gr Unique, but forgot to! I suspect that I'd get little if any expansion at roughly the 850 ft/sec they'd likely be travelling at. I also forgot that damned tool for taking the hulls out of the clips!) It's clear that I like Unique powder and use it in several calibers. The fact that I have lots and lots of it is a factor, too. It's also the "old" Unique that's "dirty." Here's the clean revolver before a shot was fired today. ...and after.... I've not tallied up how many rounds were fired, but quite a few. The "dirtiness" of this powder caused zero problems and won't next time either as the revolver will be cleaned today. Observations: Recoil was very light and seemed lighter to me with this revolver than had the same (ACP) rounds been fired from one of my full-size 5" 1911s. Maybe that full-length underlug's not so ugly after all? I also suspect that any of the rounds tried today are much more accurate than the target's show as there's human error involved, but I do note that this revolver with this powder and these bullets does like the heavier slugs. I'll likely not shoot lighter than 230 grains in it from now on. In fact, I'll likely shoot only the 255 gr CSWC load. The reason is that it's pleasant to shoot, yet has enough "oomph" (another "scientific" term) to "handle" anything needing it in Texas. I do NOT plan to use this revolver for defensive purposes so I'm not at all concerned with the handloads-for-self-defense-rhubarb that shows up frequently on the boards. Yet, were I required to do so, I suspect that the big, flat 255 gr slug would be "alright." I know it would be fine on coyotes, javelina, and other such critters as well as a Texas whitetail should it be within my self-imposed range of about 35 yards. Also, right now the only company making AR cases is Remington. When new, one can load jacketed bullets meant for the automatic with no problems, but when resized for subsequent reloading, I cannot get them down enough to sufficiently grip jacketed bullets. Old time reloaders may remember this being the case with RP .45 ACP brass years ago. I've tried several different dies and combinations. Yet, the 255 gr slug's big enough that it works fine in both new and fired cases. The R-P stuff has been "fragile" to me in that any kind of roll crimp results in split cases within one to two loadings as well and if the case is not flared quite enough and I try to do the minimal, seating the bullet crushes the case much easier than in other calibers. Such a revolver would also be good for shooting up handloads or factory rounds that don't work well in one's semiautomatic. But, there may be hope! Starline Brass has announced that they will soon be offering .45 Auto Rim cases. I hope they're just a tad thicker. We'll see. Though not even on the short list (for no good reason I can think of), this revolver could be an effective defensive weapon with current .45 ACP rounds using either the full or half-moon clips. I do see a problem with reloading but one or two at a time during a possible lull in the shooting, but it could be used. I think it'd get a bad guy's attention.... Best.

October 17, 2002, 05:36 PM	#3
GunsnRovers Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2002 Location: Lost Angeles Posts: 781	Thank you Thanks for the great report. I bought the same gun in 1991 and sold it in 1993. I kick myself regularly for that moment of stupidity. My search this summer for a local (PRK legal) M625 or M25 has proven fruitless. I'll live vicariously through your range report. Jeff __________________ Jeff The reason we're all here is that we're not all there.

October 17, 2002, 07:31 PM	#5
ATTICUS Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 1999 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,100	Ditto what the others said....and nice shootin! I've gotta get out with my M25 this weekend. Thanks for the detailed report. __________________ Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. Mark Twain

October 17, 2002, 09:21 PM	#8
dewey Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 1999 Location: South East Posts: 399	Thanks, Stephen I'm equally hungup on my .44SPLs and 25/625s. I'll print put your range data for my next handloading session. THANKS ! dan __________________ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ...and He will come again . . . *SOON !*

October 18, 2002, 12:12 PM	#12
SteveC Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 210	Our very own "Gun Tests" Stephen, You know, I'm really starting to think that we should get a way to archive your reviews. Have you ever thought about doing more side by side comparisons? For example, I think it would be neat to see what a side by side comparison of your 625 vs. one of the your many fine 1911's. Thanks again for the review. My ".45 fund" is just about to hit the minimum amount for a good used .45, so your reviews are especially valuable to me! Steve

October 17, 2002, 05:35 PM	#2
Blackhawk Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2001 Posts: 5,040	Another OUTSTANDING report, Stephen! (And I see that your thumbnail is coming along nicely.... )

October 17, 2002, 05:36 PM	#4
taco Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2000 Location: USA Posts: 936	Another excellent review Mr. Camp. This is getting to be a habit with you... keep it up. Very comprehensive and informative. I have been looking at some 45ACP revolvers to add one to my collection but due to my short fingers I'm afraid they will not "work" for me. Looking forward to your next review.

October 17, 2002, 08:58 PM	#6
marsh Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 126	Excellent report, as usual. Thank you. I recall the Remington brass of long ago in 9mm Luger was also very thin and wouldn't hold a jacketed bullet worth diddly. marsh

October 17, 2002, 09:03 PM	#7
Stephen A. Camp Staff In Memoriam Join Date: April 16, 1999 Posts: 2,570	Hello, sir. No, maybe I'm wrong, but I recall anything stamped "W-W" not working well in the early '70s! When I got my first box of Winchester USA all that changed. I DO remember R-P cases in .45ACP being very thin. Best.

October 17, 2002, 09:34 PM	#9
Stephen A. Camp Staff In Memoriam Join Date: April 16, 1999 Posts: 2,570	Hello, Dewey. Glad to've been of service. Best.

October 18, 2002, 05:56 AM	#10
zeke Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: NW Wi Posts: 1,671	Stephen-another excellent range test. Have appreciated your earlier ones, been too busy to post for awhile. Redding makes a profile crimp die, that have found very useful for the lighter cast or jacketed bullets (with cannelures)using the auto rim brass. Works very well with the ashtrays. Starline has been promising 45 auto rim brass for awhile, ain't made em yet that am aware of. When and if they ever do, will be buying couple thousand.

October 18, 2002, 10:06 AM	#11
nyetter Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2001 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 342	I want one

October 18, 2002, 12:16 PM	#13
Stephen A. Camp Staff In Memoriam Join Date: April 16, 1999 Posts: 2,570	Hello, SteveC. Thank you. Tell ya' what, after lunch I'll kind of do what you mention. I will see if I can do a thread showing some groups with the same or similar loads from the S&W and other 1911s as well as the chronograph figures I have for each. Best.

October 18, 2002, 01:33 PM	#14
Stephen A. Camp Staff In Memoriam Join Date: April 16, 1999 Posts: 2,570	Comparisons Between S&W M625-2 and Automatics in .45 ACP.... Hello. As was mentioned in a post above, a comparison between this revolver and some .45 ACP semis might be of interest. I might very well try and include such in future "Range Reports," but will put together something similar from existing figures and pictures now. Velocity Comparisons: Federal 230 gr HydraShok (Old Style Truncated Cone HP): S&W M625-2: 901 ft/sec Kimber Classic Custom: 870 ft/sec Les Baer 5": 851 ft/sec Remington 230 gr Golden Saber HP: S&W M625-2: 840 ft/sec Kimber Classic Custom: 847 ft/sec Federal 230 gr Classic JHP: S&W M625-2: 854 ft/sec Kimber Classic Custom: 865 ft/sec Les Baer 5": 842 ft/sec These are the only figures I have common to both the revolver and the semis. You'll note that the Les Baer is included on but 2 of the entries. That's because it doesn't belong to me and some figures were taken from it at the same time I was getting them from my Kimber. Keep in mind that while these numbers may be guidelines, they're "true" only for these guns with those lots of ammo, but they should be close. Grouping: Human error is very likely more of a factor here than I'd like to admit, but I do think that if the load "shoots" for me, it should for you as well. It's very possible that some of the groups are significantly more accurate than others, but that I cannot hold true enough to discern it. Three of the four groups fired here at 15 yards are common to the loads fired with the S&W M625 with both sets of targets being shot at 15 yards, standing w/2-hand hold. These were shot with a 5" STI Trojan. Top Left: Federal HydraShok 230 gr JHP (Old style), PMC 230 gr Starfire JHP, and Bottom Right, Triton 230 gr QuikShok +P. The Bottom Left is the Corbon +P 165 gr PowRball. You can check out how these rounds did from the revolver in the initial post in this thread. Best.

October 18, 2002, 09:04 PM	#15
SteveC Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 210	Excellent, thanks! Of course, what you _really_ accomplished was to make me think I should save up longer and get the STI!

October 18, 2002, 09:21 PM	#16
Stephen A. Camp Staff In Memoriam Join Date: April 16, 1999 Posts: 2,570	Hello, sir. "I feel your pain." Bawahahahaha! No, really, I do think they're worth the money for what you get. I've had excellent reliability and accuracy with both. Got about 1500 rnds through the 9mm and around a thousand through the .45 now. As mentioned, they shoot tighter than I can. So far, zero malfunctions in either. Best. .45 Standard 5" Trojan: 9mm Trojan Longslide 6" bbl:

October 19, 2002, 08:35 PM	#17
Leafy Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 38	I just plunked the change down on a 4" 625 tonight. I am looking forward to picking it up and shooting it next weekend (damn waiting period!). Thanks for the input. I'll have to sample some of your recipes. I was thinking of the .460 Rowland (sp?) conversion. What do you guys think?

October 19, 2002, 08:38 PM	#18
Stephen A. Camp Staff In Memoriam Join Date: April 16, 1999 Posts: 2,570	Hello. I think you'll really enjoy that revolver. I don't have any personal experience with the conversion you mention so I am not competent to answer that one. Best.

October 19, 2002, 09:22 PM	#19
7th Fleet Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2000 Posts: 1,469	Excellent report and I too have a 625 and it's one of my favorite revolvers. Mine has the 4" barrel with the standard rubber factory grips. I've owned the gun for over ten years and I've been meaning to change those grips but have never found a nice set of wood grips. Maybe at tomorrows gun show... 7th __________________ SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.

October 20, 2002, 12:05 AM	#20
Archie Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2000 Location: Hastings, Nebrasksa - the Hear Posts: 2,209	Mr. Camp.. thank you. Nice report. (That'll go down in your record...) I agree with you about the 255 grain SWC bullets; they seem made for the 45 ACP. I also agree with you about that silly underlug. I prefer the look and balance of the 1950 Target Model. But I'm a dinosaur. I lost my 1955 Target Model some twenty years ago to an attack of poverty induced by a case of marraige. The woman is gone, but I didn't get the gun back. Still, I have a cut down 1917 that serves in the meanwhile. __________________ There ain't no free lunch, except Jesus. Archie Check out updated journal at http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/

October 20, 2002, 01:02 AM	#21
jrp Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2000 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 100	Thanks for the excellent write-up Stephen. I ordered a 4" 625 thru gunfinder.net tonight after agonizing between it and an SA Trophy Match. Note to GunsnRovers - both the 4" and 5" 625 with the internal lock are approved for sale in California. I'd prefer one sans lock, but I wanted a 4" and didn't want to spend a lot of time seaching for an older pre-lock 4" locally. I think they are not that common. Thanks for the load info. I might try some W231 as well. It seems to work well in my P220. Where'd you get your AR brass? Thanks! __________________ NRA Endowment Life Member NRA Instructor, Basic Pistol SAF Life Member AzCDL Member

October 20, 2002, 01:24 AM	#22
uglygun Senior Member Join Date: March 27, 2001 Location: Cowpie Ca Posts: 552	Are there any model 25 45ACP revolvers out there that were offered by S&W that are like the 625-2 in the original post? I've still got a model 24 44Spl. and model 25 45ACP on my list of desired S&Ws to purchase, I know that I will eventually find a model 24 but I'm unsure about the 25s aside from a surplus 1917. Seems to me that most of the 45ACP revolvers that I see are all 625s and stainless as opposed to blued 25s.

October 20, 2002, 03:37 PM	#23
Kermit Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2001 Location: California Posts: 3,020	Good job there...I've been on the fence re: the 625 for a while. Seeing results like the one you have has me salivating for one...AGAIN! Biggest downside I see are those moonclips (full & 1/2).

October 21, 2002, 01:08 AM	#24
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Another Excellent Report, Stephen - - - You're getting us spoiled with these. I wish the pro gun writers and "Evaluators" would do as good, and objective, a job in the magazine articles. I have never been fond of the full barrel lug S&Ws, but you have done this one proud. Does anyone here have any experience with the "Third-Moon" clips, which only hold two rounds of .45 ACP? I've seen them illustrated but never found any for sale at shop or gun show. They seem to make more sense for a partial ("TACKTICKUL") reload. But then, I really do like the look of the stubby little auto rim cartridges. I think I'm down to about 100 new unfired AR cases, and I'm looking forward to the Star Line brass, too. But then again, I'm down to a 1917 S&W for an ACP revolver . . . Best, Johnny

October 21, 2002, 07:46 AM	#25
Stephen A. Camp Staff In Memoriam Join Date: April 16, 1999 Posts: 2,570	Hello all and thank you. .45 AR Brass: http://www14.inetba.com/tandtreloadi...Cat4503_2.ctlg Best.