Sick of TACTICAL - Page 2

Spectre · January 7, 1999, 08:36 PM

I have never been over-fond of calling anything "tactical"- (unless it's a fighter group) as a matter of fact, I personally despise the word as oft-misused. Thanks to brother Kodiak for the chance to get that off my chance. For some reason, I especially dislike the label when applied to knives.

Is this tactical? "Well, I suppose you could do tactics with it..."

[This message has been edited by Spectre (edited 01-07-99).]

Scott Evans · January 7, 1999, 11:53 PM

Tactical - Of or pertaining to tactics.

Tactics – Mode of procedure for gaining advantage or success.

From the American College Dictionary Copyright 1947 (Random House) I love old dictionaries.

It would appear that anything you do or anything you use to assist you in acquiring an advantage can properly be designated “tactical”. No surprise then that the word is so frequently applied. Even less surprising that individuals who have an interest in firearms, knives and related accessories hear or see the word repeatedly. Perhaps you should develop some other areas of interest. Try rec.gardens … I haven’t seen the word tactical mentioned there once.

Grayfox · January 8, 1999, 12:14 AM

Look on the bright side. "Tactical" is one word that will never show up on the politically correct list. If it makes the antis flinch, it works for me.

Rob Pincus · January 8, 1999, 12:41 AM

When was the last time you checked, Scott?

------------------
-Essayons

ShadedDude · January 8, 1999, 01:51 AM

Then that 3 inch steel tube that some of the good old boys are usung as bumbers on thier trucks are Tactical! Sure do gain an advantage in an accident, and against trees!

Why...them are even black!

------------------

Mouse Assassins inc.

Patrick · January 8, 1999, 03:53 AM

Tactical Utility Vehicle? How about a hummer with a ring mount M2 .50 cal? Painted the requisite black of course, just like those helecopters that keep following me around... Try to get a CCW permit for that!

Tactical ammo? That's when all of your bullets get together and decide they are going to storm the beach and take that da#$ machine gun nest. In fact, if you are using 9 mm bullets, that would be an exercise in small unit tactics.

As for those of you who want a custom tactical cyber police rifle, you may be interested in a practical carry mode for your weapon such as a Ducati 916 in the latest urban camo red.

Kodiak - you are correct sir. If it is black , camo, made of nylon, and serves no purpose, someone can lable it "tactical" and find a market for it. Why do you think Galls and U.S. Cav do such business?

Patrick

Rob Pincus · January 8, 1999, 04:00 AM

Come to think of it, Ducati is now offering some of its line in black now...

and...hey... why does the 900SS get no attention?

------------------
-Essayons

[This message has been edited by Rob (edited 01-08-99).]

Scott Evans · January 8, 1999, 09:05 AM

I just checked rec.gardens and saw a post for … "TACTICAL GARDENING" … NO WAY … I didn't read it yet … but it is actually there.

Maybe you guys are right…

I will now eat my tactical crow......

Scott Evans · January 8, 1999, 09:19 AM

Just read that post on rec.gardens ……… Rob

It was plant (not the green kind with leaves either) ….

I'm still laughing … very funny … you got me dude

Rob Pincus · January 8, 1999, 10:15 AM

While it is true that it was a plant have you seen the responses I've been getting! I got an email this morning from a lady sepcifically discussing "tactics" !! I'm sure it is on the NG too....

------------------
-Essayons

Art Eatman · January 8, 1999, 11:15 AM

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the bad taste of the American public."

Rename a "Linda" or "Tec 9" a "tactical pistol, and watch the resurgance in sales!

Between Madison Avenue, politicians and left-wing political-interest groups, our language has plumb gone all to Hell. Sez me.

But, hey! My Lotus Elan had power windows! And my $1,900 Corvette-powered Austin Healey took a lot of Autocross trophies! (Named it the Mongoose, 'cause it ate Cobras...)

Happy '99!

David · January 8, 1999, 11:16 AM

Kodiak, that's a good one. Let me add one.

I attended a hand-to-hand combat class in October, and one of the instructors was a former SEAL. On the last day, I wore a SEAL TEAM shirt, and asked him if it bothered him that I was wearing it.

He said, " Oh no, it's o.k. The term SEAL is so generic now, it doesn't mean any thing. Kinda like ""new and improved"" on detergent boxes." Tis true. I am waiting for the OFFICIAL NAVY SEAL UNDERWARE, to go on sale!
It's waterproof, don't you know!

Rob Pincus · January 8, 1999, 11:37 AM

David,

Tactical underwear?
(sounds like Depends to me...)
______

Is a Spork a tactical utensil?

What about the Salad Shooter (with the potato chip blade)? is that a tactical Appliance?

I know... Those remotes controls that are supposed to control your VHS, TV, DVD, receiver and CD player.. it must be a Tactical Remote.

longhair · January 8, 1999, 01:28 PM

i think i have a tactical tv. it blows up everytime i have a power surge

------------------
fiat justitia

Spectre · January 8, 1999, 02:01 PM

Longhair- does that mean a "tactical Monica" contributed to presidential dereliction?

DonL · January 8, 1999, 02:18 PM

Just some thoughts:

If "tactical" by the above definition allows one to gain an advantage, where is, or even IS there, a fine line between the term "strategic" and "tactical"?

Sport utility vehicles? For the 80-90% that are never used as intended, they're sport FUTILITY vehicles, marketed amidst hype to allow sheeple some "command", "sport", "adventure", and "ruggedness" at only $199 down and $199 a month, bolstering their low self esteem and sheeple lives with delusions of control over their feeble rat-in-a-maze lives. How many SUV owners really use their vehicles for other than taking the tykes to soccer practice and trolling the malls? I can see Northerners having a need for four wheel drive, but the Bay area? I must really be missing something here.
I once read that a "real" truck is one that you can hose off the inside and outside on Saturday night for services the next day. I think that's a fair definition. It's like the "distressed" leather jackets that were selling like hotcakes after the first Indiana Jones movie. People think they can buy an image off the rack, and perfect looks out of a jar, and eternal blissful love with the right toothpaste. Who believes this crap? Apparently, the majority of the population.

"Tactical" will be a popular term until some liberal politician decides that it's offensive enough to be used as synonomous with "assault", and the marketing flaks will just find another hot-button definition. And so it goes...

Scott Evans · January 8, 1999, 02:32 PM

Rob,
I'm roll'en … Just read some more of the TACTICAL GARDEN on rec.gardens.

Tactical turnips … that is too much ...

skeetman · January 8, 1999, 03:32 PM

To give the matter some sense of 'closure', my understanding was Strategic to be before the engagement and Tactical to be within the engagement. The two are practically interchangeable now and widely used and misused much to the shagrin of Mr. Kodiac there.

As far as sports cars are concerned, I would debate that any car which was designed with its performance ahead of its practicality could safely be considered a 'sport' vehicle. I would certainly not consider any Ferarri, Lamborguini (sp?), Porche, etc. anything but a sports car. What else would it be? A high performance family sedan?

As far as SUV's, are there any REAL SUV's left? Everything looks like luxery minivans with raised suspensions. Maybe the classic Jeep Cherokee...not may frills there.

Rob Pincus · January 8, 1999, 04:30 PM

The Full Size Bronco (A'la OJ-mobile) gets my nod as the last non-glorified-Mini-Van SUV. While it ocul dbe dressed it, it was also available in a true workhorse version.

The next to last model of Pathfinder was also a surprisingly nimble, durable and tough vehicle.

Oh, btw- I got the 1999 FBF Art of Speed catalog today, with lots of pictures of 916s and 748s.. now I rememeber why the 900SS gets dissed.

Kodiac · January 8, 1999, 05:55 PM

Whoa... I think I sparked something here.
I been laughing this past 10 minutes trying to control my self so I could type on my wee little palmtop pc...
Hey, wait a sec... its small, black - oh no!
I have a TACTICAL COMPUTER!

The thing about the sports cars:
I never drove a Cobra with A/C - but I have driven an AC Cobra. 2 different things.
Lotus Elan? Please, my Brother - tis a GT car. And most of the other cars mentioned as well. A Sports Car is a different animal... smallish cramped even, uncomfortable, frequently loud inside, often underpowered even. Folks who can afford 14,000 plus for a new car that wants to go fast, usually end up buying a GT car. Grand Touring... Mustangs and Comaros? GTs Vettes? that would depend on the car... ZR1s no... older LT1s plain jane set up - could be. Hyper Spendy italian cars - They are ART baby - you wouldnt let your brother in law drive it to Daytona would you? Didn't think so... It aint a sports car. True Sports Cars died as a species in the USA. England still makes them - TVRs, Caterham 7s... they are True Blooded. in the US the Miata started out true but quickly evolved into a small GT. Now days Science and technology has given the GT the edge in true SPEED... so a true S.C. is no longer even sought after in the market, and I dont know of one going to be made either. Viper? Would be... give it a 75% drop in price... and change that V10 to a high reving turbo 4 or something... Most people dont even understand the true Sports Car feel any more. Want to feel the difference? Drive an older Mustang - then drive a Mustang SVO... the SVO has more of the SC feel I am trying to explain. A SC is harder to drive well, you got to wring the performance out of it... testing your driving ability.
You guys can have your Lotus and Vettes...
Give me a '84 Rabbit GTI and a tank full of gas and a twisting canyon pass (the down hill side)... That is something you can have fun in! Paint it BLACK and call it the TACTICAL CAR.

------------------
Kodiac
Kenetic Defense Institute
"Sir Heckler"

Art Eatman · January 8, 1999, 07:46 PM

Hey, Kodiak! The two-seater Lotus Elan weighed 1,300 lbs. (about half of a Mazda Miata), had a twin-cam English Ford 4-banger; ragtop; depending on which Webers you had, it was 135 or 150 hp.

My first (of 4) Chev-Healey weighed 2,350 with a full tank of gas, roll bar and its hard-top on. I was running about 350 hp from a 327...

And then there was the LeGrand Formula A car, single seat, open wheel. 1,250 lbs and 450 hp...Now that was indeed sporting! The back straight at Road Atlanta ain't real straight at 175-200!

Today's Ferraris and Lambos are what us old farts called GT cars. Grand Touring. Two folks, a modicum of luggage, and 120 to 150 all day long in elegant comfort.

This argument went on all during the '50s, the '60s and...

I think the old adjectives still apply for "sports cars": Light, nimble, good-handling, agile...Power was not the defining term, considering early MGs, Sprites, Porsche 1600s, Triumphs...The Cobra was a "high-performance" sports car, but definitely a sports car. The Corvette has always been sporting, but closer to a GT car, unless you took a lot of weight out.

Nuff fer now...Art

Rob Pincus · January 8, 1999, 08:32 PM

What about the M3... That has got to be a Sports Car by your definition, doesn't it ??

As far as grand touring....
I was lucky enough to own what I consider to be the best buy in the performance car market, a 3000GT VR4. 6 cylinder Twin Turbo, all wheel drive (viscous coupling, normally 40%F, 60%R but adjusted as necessary), and 4 wheel steering. The inside creature comforts were about on par with the newest Vettes, but the VR4 design is at least 8 years old. The car was incredible to say the least. To beat its combination of power and handling you have to spend twice as much on a Twin Turbo AWD Porsche. I miss it, but now I enjoy my bikes and the wife doesn't think they are as dangerous... (I think she means that the kids don't ride with me on the bike.. she is not concerned about my safety

)

chink · January 8, 1999, 10:32 PM

Patrick-
you think your being funny, about the M2, but I was jsut talkin to my friend about that. i think when I get my hummer, I 'm gonna talk AM General into puttinf a TOW launcher on the top. I'll tell them that I need a big flare gun, cuz I tend to go off on random trips in the wilderness and I need to be seen from far away if I should have a problem.

also, you don't need a CCW for the M2 cuz can you really conceal that thing?

Maybe we sould make a tactical custom cyber SUV. That way it takes up no space in the garage CYBER, yet it

ShadedDude · January 8, 1999, 10:44 PM

Lets take a diferent turn.

What about "Tactical Gas Warfare"?

Havent you ever seen your dad clear a room in 3 seconds using this tactic?

I have a black lamp.
I have a black bed.
I have a black lab.

THEY ARE NOT TACTICAL!

You know...this thread feels good

------------------

Mouse Assassins inc.

Grayfox · January 9, 1999, 12:51 AM

Rob-
We all owe you our thanks. Only you could have forseen the need for info that we overlooked. While we all prepare for Y2K we can rest easy knowing we will survive because we are now armed with the latest info on "Tactical Gardening."

I read your post at rec.gardens and have one question. Do gardeners have a sense of humor?

January 7, 1999, 08:36 PM	#26
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	I have never been over-fond of calling anything "tactical"- (unless it's a fighter group) as a matter of fact, I personally despise the word as oft-misused. Thanks to brother Kodiak for the chance to get that off my chance. For some reason, I especially dislike the label when applied to knives. Is this tactical? "Well, I suppose you could do tactics with it..." [This message has been edited by Spectre (edited 01-07-99).]

January 7, 1999, 11:53 PM	#27
Scott Evans Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 7, 1998 Location: Jacksonville, NC Posts: 1,380	Tactical - Of or pertaining to tactics. Tactics – Mode of procedure for gaining advantage or success. From the American College Dictionary Copyright 1947 (Random House) I love old dictionaries. It would appear that anything you do or anything you use to assist you in acquiring an advantage can properly be designated “tactical”. No surprise then that the word is so frequently applied. Even less surprising that individuals who have an interest in firearms, knives and related accessories hear or see the word repeatedly. Perhaps you should develop some other areas of interest. Try rec.gardens … I haven’t seen the word tactical mentioned there once.

January 8, 1999, 12:14 AM	#28
Grayfox Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 1998 Posts: 1,885	Look on the bright side. "Tactical" is one word that will never show up on the politically correct list. If it makes the antis flinch, it works for me.

January 8, 1999, 12:41 AM	#29
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	When was the last time you checked, Scott? ------------------ *-Essayons*

January 8, 1999, 01:51 AM	#30
ShadedDude Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: TN Posts: 254	Then that 3 inch steel tube that some of the good old boys are usung as bumbers on thier trucks are Tactical! Sure do gain an advantage in an accident, and against trees! Why...them are even black! ------------------ Mouse Assassins inc.

January 8, 1999, 03:53 AM	#31
Patrick Member Join Date: December 18, 1998 Posts: 31	Tactical Utility Vehicle? How about a hummer with a ring mount M2 .50 cal? Painted the requisite black of course, just like those helecopters that keep following me around... Try to get a CCW permit for that! Tactical ammo? That's when all of your bullets get together and decide they are going to storm the beach and take that da#$ machine gun nest. In fact, if you are using 9 mm bullets, that would be an exercise in small unit tactics. As for those of you who want a custom tactical cyber police rifle, you may be interested in a practical carry mode for your weapon such as a Ducati 916 in the latest urban camo red. Kodiak - you are correct sir. If it is black , camo, made of nylon, and serves no purpose, someone can lable it "tactical" and find a market for it. Why do you think Galls and U.S. Cav do such business? Patrick

January 8, 1999, 04:00 AM	#32
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	Come to think of it, Ducati is now offering some of its line in black now... and...hey... why does the 900SS get no attention? ------------------ *-Essayons* [This message has been edited by Rob (edited 01-08-99).]

January 8, 1999, 09:05 AM	#33
Scott Evans Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 7, 1998 Location: Jacksonville, NC Posts: 1,380	I just checked rec.gardens and saw a post for … "TACTICAL GARDENING" … NO WAY … I didn't read it yet … but it is actually there. Maybe you guys are right… I will now eat my tactical crow......

January 8, 1999, 09:19 AM	#34
Scott Evans Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 7, 1998 Location: Jacksonville, NC Posts: 1,380	Just read that post on rec.gardens ……… Rob It was plant (not the green kind with leaves either) …. I'm still laughing … very funny … you got me dude

January 8, 1999, 10:15 AM	#35
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	While it is true that it was a plant have you seen the responses I've been getting! I got an email this morning from a lady sepcifically discussing "tactics" !! I'm sure it is on the NG too.... ------------------ *-Essayons*

January 8, 1999, 11:15 AM	#36
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the bad taste of the American public." Rename a "Linda" or "Tec 9" a "tactical pistol, and watch the resurgance in sales! Between Madison Avenue, politicians and left-wing political-interest groups, our language has plumb gone all to Hell. Sez me. But, hey! My Lotus Elan had power windows! And my $1,900 Corvette-powered Austin Healey took a lot of Autocross trophies! (Named it the Mongoose, 'cause it ate Cobras...) Happy '99!

January 8, 1999, 11:16 AM	#37
David Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 1999 Posts: 121	Kodiak, that's a good one. Let me add one. I attended a hand-to-hand combat class in October, and one of the instructors was a former SEAL. On the last day, I wore a SEAL TEAM shirt, and asked him if it bothered him that I was wearing it. He said, " Oh no, it's o.k. The term SEAL is so generic now, it doesn't mean any thing. Kinda like ""new and improved"" on detergent boxes." Tis true. I am waiting for the OFFICIAL NAVY SEAL UNDERWARE, to go on sale! It's waterproof, don't you know!

January 8, 1999, 11:37 AM	#38
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	David, Tactical underwear? (sounds like Depends to me...) ______ Is a Spork a tactical utensil? What about the Salad Shooter (with the potato chip blade)? is that a tactical Appliance? I know... Those remotes controls that are supposed to control your VHS, TV, DVD, receiver and CD player.. it must be a Tactical Remote.

January 8, 1999, 01:28 PM	#39
longhair Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 1998 Location: CSA Posts: 632	i think i have a tactical tv. it blows up everytime i have a power surge ------------------ fiat justitia

January 8, 1999, 02:01 PM	#40
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	Longhair- does that mean a "tactical Monica" contributed to presidential dereliction?

January 8, 1999, 02:18 PM	#41
DonL Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 1998 Location: Michigan Posts: 217	Just some thoughts: If "tactical" by the above definition allows one to gain an advantage, where is, or even IS there, a fine line between the term "strategic" and "tactical"? Sport utility vehicles? For the 80-90% that are never used as intended, they're sport FUTILITY vehicles, marketed amidst hype to allow sheeple some "command", "sport", "adventure", and "ruggedness" at only $199 down and $199 a month, bolstering their low self esteem and sheeple lives with delusions of control over their feeble rat-in-a-maze lives. How many SUV owners really use their vehicles for other than taking the tykes to soccer practice and trolling the malls? I can see Northerners having a need for four wheel drive, but the Bay area? I must really be missing something here. I once read that a "real" truck is one that you can hose off the inside and outside on Saturday night for services the next day. I think that's a fair definition. It's like the "distressed" leather jackets that were selling like hotcakes after the first Indiana Jones movie. People think they can buy an image off the rack, and perfect looks out of a jar, and eternal blissful love with the right toothpaste. Who believes this crap? Apparently, the majority of the population. "Tactical" will be a popular term until some liberal politician decides that it's offensive enough to be used as synonomous with "assault", and the marketing flaks will just find another hot-button definition. And so it goes...

January 8, 1999, 02:32 PM	#42
Scott Evans Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 7, 1998 Location: Jacksonville, NC Posts: 1,380	Rob, I'm roll'en … Just read some more of the TACTICAL GARDEN on rec.gardens. Tactical turnips … that is too much ...

January 8, 1999, 03:32 PM	#43
skeetman Junior Member Join Date: January 6, 1999 Location: Fairfax, VA, USA Posts: 8	To give the matter some sense of 'closure', my understanding was Strategic to be before the engagement and Tactical to be within the engagement. The two are practically interchangeable now and widely used and misused much to the shagrin of Mr. Kodiac there. As far as sports cars are concerned, I would debate that any car which was designed with its performance ahead of its practicality could safely be considered a 'sport' vehicle. I would certainly not consider any Ferarri, Lamborguini (sp?), Porche, etc. anything but a sports car. What else would it be? A high performance family sedan? As far as SUV's, are there any REAL SUV's left? Everything looks like luxery minivans with raised suspensions. Maybe the classic Jeep Cherokee...not may frills there.

January 8, 1999, 04:30 PM	#44
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	The Full Size Bronco (A'la OJ-mobile) gets my nod as the last non-glorified-Mini-Van SUV. While it ocul dbe dressed it, it was also available in a true workhorse version. The next to last model of Pathfinder was also a surprisingly nimble, durable and tough vehicle. Oh, btw- I got the 1999 FBF Art of Speed catalog today, with lots of pictures of 916s and 748s.. now I rememeber why the 900SS gets dissed.

January 8, 1999, 05:55 PM	#45
Kodiac Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Posts: 1,173	Whoa... I think I sparked something here. I been laughing this past 10 minutes trying to control my self so I could type on my wee little palmtop pc... Hey, wait a sec... its small, black - oh no! I have a TACTICAL COMPUTER! The thing about the sports cars: I never drove a Cobra with A/C - but I have driven an AC Cobra. 2 different things. Lotus Elan? Please, my Brother - tis a GT car. And most of the other cars mentioned as well. A Sports Car is a different animal... smallish cramped even, uncomfortable, frequently loud inside, often underpowered even. Folks who can afford 14,000 plus for a new car that wants to go fast, usually end up buying a GT car. Grand Touring... Mustangs and Comaros? GTs Vettes? that would depend on the car... ZR1s no... older LT1s plain jane set up - could be. Hyper Spendy italian cars - They are ART baby - you wouldnt let your brother in law drive it to Daytona would you? Didn't think so... It aint a sports car. True Sports Cars died as a species in the USA. England still makes them - TVRs, Caterham 7s... they are True Blooded. in the US the Miata started out true but quickly evolved into a small GT. Now days Science and technology has given the GT the edge in true SPEED... so a true S.C. is no longer even sought after in the market, and I dont know of one going to be made either. Viper? Would be... give it a 75% drop in price... and change that V10 to a high reving turbo 4 or something... Most people dont even understand the true Sports Car feel any more. Want to feel the difference? Drive an older Mustang - then drive a Mustang SVO... the SVO has more of the SC feel I am trying to explain. A SC is harder to drive well, you got to wring the performance out of it... testing your driving ability. You guys can have your Lotus and Vettes... Give me a '84 Rabbit GTI and a tank full of gas and a twisting canyon pass (the down hill side)... That is something you can have fun in! Paint it BLACK and call it the TACTICAL CAR. ------------------ Kodiac Kenetic Defense Institute "Sir Heckler"

January 8, 1999, 07:46 PM	#46
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Hey, Kodiak! The two-seater Lotus Elan weighed 1,300 lbs. (about half of a Mazda Miata), had a twin-cam English Ford 4-banger; ragtop; depending on which Webers you had, it was 135 or 150 hp. My first (of 4) Chev-Healey weighed 2,350 with a full tank of gas, roll bar and its hard-top on. I was running about 350 hp from a 327... And then there was the LeGrand Formula A car, single seat, open wheel. 1,250 lbs and 450 hp...Now that was indeed sporting! The back straight at Road Atlanta ain't real straight at 175-200! Today's Ferraris and Lambos are what us old farts called GT cars. Grand Touring. Two folks, a modicum of luggage, and 120 to 150 all day long in elegant comfort. This argument went on all during the '50s, the '60s and... I think the old adjectives still apply for "sports cars": Light, nimble, good-handling, agile...Power was not the defining term, considering early MGs, Sprites, Porsche 1600s, Triumphs...The Cobra was a "high-performance" sports car, but definitely a sports car. The Corvette has always been sporting, but closer to a GT car, unless you took a lot of weight out. Nuff fer now...Art

January 8, 1999, 08:32 PM	#47
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	What about the M3... That has got to be a Sports Car by your definition, doesn't it ?? As far as grand touring.... I was lucky enough to own what I consider to be the best buy in the performance car market, a 3000GT VR4. 6 cylinder Twin Turbo, all wheel drive (viscous coupling, normally 40%F, 60%R but adjusted as necessary), and 4 wheel steering. The inside creature comforts were about on par with the newest Vettes, but the VR4 design is at least 8 years old. The car was incredible to say the least. To beat its combination of power and handling you have to spend twice as much on a Twin Turbo AWD Porsche. I miss it, but now I enjoy my bikes and the wife doesn't think they are as dangerous... (I think she means that the kids don't ride with me on the bike.. she is not concerned about my safety )

January 8, 1999, 10:32 PM	#48
chink Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1998 Location: saratoga, ca, usa Posts: 806	Patrick- you think your being funny, about the M2, but I was jsut talkin to my friend about that. i think when I get my hummer, I 'm gonna talk AM General into puttinf a TOW launcher on the top. I'll tell them that I need a big flare gun, cuz I tend to go off on random trips in the wilderness and I need to be seen from far away if I should have a problem. also, you don't need a CCW for the M2 cuz can you really conceal that thing? Maybe we sould make a tactical custom cyber SUV. That way it takes up no space in the garage CYBER, yet it

January 8, 1999, 10:44 PM	#49
ShadedDude Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: TN Posts: 254	Lets take a diferent turn. What about "Tactical Gas Warfare"? Havent you ever seen your dad clear a room in 3 seconds using this tactic? I have a black lamp. I have a black bed. I have a black lab. THEY ARE NOT TACTICAL! You know...this thread feels good ------------------ Mouse Assassins inc.

January 9, 1999, 12:51 AM	#50
Grayfox Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 1998 Posts: 1,885	Rob- We all owe you our thanks. Only you could have forseen the need for info that we overlooked. While we all prepare for Y2K we can rest easy knowing we will survive because we are now armed with the latest info on "Tactical Gardening." I read your post at rec.gardens and have one question. Do gardeners have a sense of humor?