Can 7.62X51 be used in a 308 rifle?

rcbeng · May 23, 2009, 03:35 PM

Can I use 7.62X51 shells in a Remington 700 (os similar rifle)? I bought 2100 rounds by accident and now I need something to shoot these 7.62X51 in.

Thanks

B. Lahey · May 23, 2009, 03:43 PM

Yes. It's the other way around that can rarely be an issue (.308 in a rifle built for 7.62).

Quote:

I bought 2100 rounds by accident

I'm not sure how that happens, but that's a pretty awesome "accident".

rcbeng · May 23, 2009, 03:46 PM

The "accident" was I did not pay attention as I thought I bought 7.62X39.

StiveC2007 · May 23, 2009, 04:46 PM

well now you have a good reason to buy a new firearm

HuntAndFish · May 23, 2009, 04:51 PM

Yeah, that was a happy accident.

You are good to go with NATO 7.62 X 51 in a bolt .308 Winchester rifle.

deadcoyote · May 23, 2009, 07:00 PM

I have a model 10FP and its a phenomenal shooter for a pretty good price. I've put about 500 rounds of South African 7.62x51mm through it and it shoots great.

FALPhil · May 23, 2009, 08:52 PM

The rounds are virtually identical:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...5&d=1229900860

rcbeng · May 23, 2009, 09:54 PM

Thanks all, but you now I have to ask, can the 7.62x51 in a semi auto and / or lever action

chris in va · May 23, 2009, 10:11 PM

No 7.62x51/308 in lever action that I'm aware of, unless you count the new 308 Marlin Express, etc which is a totally different animal.

Regular 308/7.62 can be used in a semiauto like a FAL, sure.

Now if I were you, I'd be selling that extremely EXPENSIVE 308 you got by accident and buy something that shoots a cheaper caliber. That's just me though.

**Shane Tuttle** · May 23, 2009, 10:16 PM

Moving to the Art of Rifle...

HuntAndFish · May 23, 2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcbeng

can the 7.62x51 in a semi auto and / or lever action

As chris in va says, that's okay as well. I didn't mean to imply otherwise, but you mentioned a Rem 700 so I thought that's what you were planning.

predator86 · May 24, 2009, 12:05 AM

chris in va....browning made a lever action 308 called the blr, savage 99 was also chambered in 308....

gb_in_ga · May 24, 2009, 12:34 AM

Quote:

chris in va....browning made a lever action 308 called the blr, savage 99 was also chambered in 308.

Winchester did also, in their model 88.

rcbeng · May 24, 2009, 01:00 PM

The 7.62X51 that I was refering to is the ammo from Aim Surplus and it is in the spam can from some eastern block country. It was $175 per can or $350 for both. This makes it "cheap" as compared to traditional 308 ammo

You guys are great for your help

Webleymkv · May 24, 2009, 04:11 PM

Eastern Bloc 7.62x51? Hmmmmm, I think I'd double check to make sure you don't have 7.62x54R as that most certainly cannot be used in a .308 rifle (I doubt it would even chamber).

rugerdawg · May 27, 2009, 02:11 PM

7.62 x 51 is .308 win. and probably most of our surplus .308 comes from east-bloc countries.

kraigwy · May 27, 2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Can 7.62X51 be used in a 308 rifle?

YES

Can the 308 be fired in a 7.62X51 Rifle??

YES

B. Lahey · May 27, 2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Can the 308 be fired in a 7.62X51 Rifle??

YES

Ah, so I guess I can load up my M14 with 190gr .308 and blast away with no issues, eh?

There are some 7.62x51 rifles that should not be fired with some varieties of commercial .308 ammunition. A blanket "yes" does not sound right to me.

I could be wrong, but I've read smart fellers saying otherwise...

hakalugi · May 27, 2009, 04:55 PM

umm isn't there a pressure difference between the 2 and also a case thickness difference?

the .308 full power is 62k psi and 7.62 is 50k psi, the case is diff length

http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html

yet "But as Clint McKee and Walter Kuleck of Fulton Armory note on their "award-winning" website:
They are the same, 'cause nobody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn't to the .308 "headspace" dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule."

and the pressure difference, if a .308 load is 'hot' or towards the higher end of the 62k: "Firing .308 Winchester ammunition in a firearm specifically chambered for the 7.62mm NATO risks damage to the firearm and injury to the shooter"

about the headspace and brass thickness:

"[B]A 7.62 NATO Go gauge is .003-inch longer than a .308 Winchester Go gauge. The 7.62 NATO NoGo is also longer, to the tune of .004-inch. It's entirely possible to chamber and have an accident with a .308 Winchester round in a rifle that would be safe for 7.62 X 51mm. A chamber in 7.62 that could barely close on a 7.62 NoGo could swallow a .308 Field gauge. Add to this the fact that .308 Winchester brass, being of commercial manufacture, is much thinner than that of the 7.62 NATO, and expands alot more, could possibly lead to casehead separation."

sooooo.....

wogpotter · May 27, 2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

umm isn't there a pressure difference between the 2 and also a case thickness difference?

NO & YES.
Pressure is minimal in difference, so in thoery yes, but in practice it makes no differenece at all. The METHOD of measuring pressure is different, not the pressure itself.
Yet the NATO spec cases are thicker. but this has zero bearing on using it interchangably as the difference is in internal volume, not external dimensions.
The only time you'd need to worry about this is if you are creating a load based on one & transferring it to the other. Usually about 1~1.5 grains of powder takes care of the difference. To put it differently that's about the difference needed to change MV by 100~150 FPS.

Quote:

sooooo.....

I obviously can not have been firing them interchangably in both "calibers" of rifle for 20 years without a problem, yet somehow I have been. sooooo...........

hakalugi · May 27, 2009, 10:33 PM

"I obviously can not have been firing them interchangably in both "calibers" of rifle for 20 years without a problem, yet somehow I have been"

interesting. my "sooo" was to elicit this type of feedback, so thank you.

the thing that doesn't jive is that the dpms staff had been insisting on using one type of ammo in the 308 vs. 7.62 models and not considering them interchangable. maybe they're just being more cautious?

Edward429451 · May 27, 2009, 11:10 PM

http://www.fulton-armory.com/308.htm

FALPhil · May 27, 2009, 11:10 PM

Quote:

umm isn't there a pressure difference between the 2 and also a case thickness difference?

the .308 full power is 62k psi and 7.62 is 50k psi, the case is diff length

That is incorrect. Scroll up and read the article.

patriotthad · May 27, 2009, 11:21 PM

My understanding, because of my training, is that the 308/7.62(US) is trully .308. However, the foreign made ammo is .311 and thus could cause problems. But, if I am wrong it won't be the first time.

wogpotter · May 28, 2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Ah, so I guess I can load up my M14 with 190gr .308 and blast away with no issues, eh?

There are some 7.62x51 rifles that should not be fired with some varieties of commercial .308 ammunition.

If you decide to build a load that is intentionally out of bounds for the design limitations of the firearm then you are just asking for a problem. You'll probably get horrible groups as well as the Mia/M14 isn't going to stabilize the longer, & heavier bullets. My question is WHY would you deliberately build an unsuitable & low accuracy round in the first place?

Keeping the bullet weights between 125 & 180 Gr is probably a sensible limitation in "either caliber"

but to maintain accuracy rather than intentionally build a bad load to prove a point.

You do have a point there though. I'd avoid the "specialty loads" like managed recoil & light magnum, just because they were invented 20+ years after 7.62mm NATO development stopped. There is no way to tell if the newer powders have a suitable pressure curve for the older firearms designs limitations.

May 23, 2009, 03:35 PM	#1
rcbeng Junior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Posts: 5	Can 7.62X51 be used in a 308 rifle? Can I use 7.62X51 shells in a Remington 700 (os similar rifle)? I bought 2100 rounds by accident and now I need something to shoot these 7.62X51 in. Thanks

May 23, 2009, 03:46 PM	#3
rcbeng Junior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Posts: 5	The accidenct was ... The "accident" was I did not pay attention as I thought I bought 7.62X39.

May 23, 2009, 04:51 PM	#5
HuntAndFish Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO. Posts: 580	Yeah, that was a happy accident. You are good to go with NATO 7.62 X 51 in a bolt .308 Winchester rifle. __________________ NRA Benefactor MSSA Life Member

May 23, 2009, 07:00 PM	#6
deadcoyote Senior Member Join Date: April 13, 2009 Location: northern CA Posts: 676	I'd recommend a Savage. I have a model 10FP and its a phenomenal shooter for a pretty good price. I've put about 500 rounds of South African 7.62x51mm through it and it shoots great.

May 23, 2009, 09:54 PM	#8
rcbeng Junior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Posts: 5	Okay for all 308 rifles? Thanks all, but you now I have to ask, can the 7.62x51 in a semi auto and / or lever action

May 23, 2009, 04:46 PM	#4
StiveC2007 Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2009 Posts: 237	well now you have a good reason to buy a new firearm

May 23, 2009, 08:52 PM	#7
FALPhil Senior Member Join Date: September 10, 2007 Location: Racoon City Posts: 934	The rounds are virtually identical: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...5&d=1229900860

May 23, 2009, 10:11 PM	#9
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	No 7.62x51/308 in lever action that I'm aware of, unless you count the new 308 Marlin Express, etc which is a totally different animal. Regular 308/7.62 can be used in a semiauto like a FAL, sure. Now if I were you, I'd be selling that extremely EXPENSIVE 308 you got by accident and buy something that shoots a cheaper caliber. That's just me though.

May 23, 2009, 10:16 PM	#10
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	Moving to the Art of Rifle... __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

May 24, 2009, 12:05 AM	#12
predator86 Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: wisconsin Posts: 549	chris in va....browning made a lever action 308 called the blr, savage 99 was also chambered in 308.... __________________ Beware the man with one gun.

May 24, 2009, 01:00 PM	#14
rcbeng Junior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Posts: 5	I am new at this cross caliber stuff but... The 7.62X51 that I was refering to is the ammo from Aim Surplus and it is in the spam can from some eastern block country. It was $175 per can or $350 for both. This makes it "cheap" as compared to traditional 308 ammo You guys are great for your help

May 24, 2009, 04:11 PM	#15
Webleymkv Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 10,446	Eastern Bloc 7.62x51? Hmmmmm, I think I'd double check to make sure you don't have 7.62x54R as that most certainly cannot be used in a .308 rifle (I doubt it would even chamber).

May 27, 2009, 02:11 PM	#16
rugerdawg Member Join Date: February 18, 2009 Posts: 68	7.62 x 51 is .308 win. and probably most of our surplus .308 comes from east-bloc countries.

May 27, 2009, 04:55 PM	#19
hakalugi Junior Member Join Date: November 11, 2008 Posts: 11	umm umm isn't there a pressure difference between the 2 and also a case thickness difference? the .308 full power is 62k psi and 7.62 is 50k psi, the case is diff length http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html yet "But as Clint McKee and Walter Kuleck of Fulton Armory note on their "award-winning" website: They are the same, 'cause nobody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn't to the .308 "headspace" dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule." and the pressure difference, if a .308 load is 'hot' or towards the higher end of the 62k: "Firing .308 Winchester ammunition in a firearm specifically chambered for the 7.62mm NATO risks damage to the firearm and injury to the shooter" about the headspace and brass thickness: "[B]A 7.62 NATO Go gauge is .003-inch longer than a .308 Winchester Go gauge. The 7.62 NATO NoGo is also longer, to the tune of .004-inch. It's entirely possible to chamber and have an accident with a .308 Winchester round in a rifle that would be safe for 7.62 X 51mm. A chamber in 7.62 that could barely close on a 7.62 NoGo could swallow a .308 Field gauge. Add to this the fact that .308 Winchester brass, being of commercial manufacture, is much thinner than that of the 7.62 NATO, and expands alot more, could possibly lead to casehead separation." sooooo.....

May 27, 2009, 10:33 PM	#21
hakalugi Junior Member Join Date: November 11, 2008 Posts: 11	"I obviously can not have been firing them interchangably in both "calibers" of rifle for 20 years without a problem, yet somehow I have been" interesting. my "sooo" was to elicit this type of feedback, so thank you. the thing that doesn't jive is that the dpms staff had been insisting on using one type of ammo in the 308 vs. 7.62 models and not considering them interchangable. maybe they're just being more cautious?

May 27, 2009, 11:10 PM	#22
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	http://www.fulton-armory.com/308.htm

May 27, 2009, 11:21 PM	#24
patriotthad Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2009 Posts: 105	7.62 Vs .308 My understanding, because of my training, is that the 308/7.62(US) is trully .308. However, the foreign made ammo is .311 and thus could cause problems. But, if I am wrong it won't be the first time.