Will I do any damage to my pistol by cycling the slide

[Tool]

I just went to a store that reminds every customer not to let go of the slide by releasing the slide stop button, for fear of possible damage. There must be a reason behind that I assume?

Furthermore, I notice that when I cycle my Walther PDP, there seems to be a buffer zone towards the end, which will gradually slow down the slide at the last 10% of the travel. However, I don't feel the same thing for other pistols, such as CZ P-01.

[rc]

If you cycle your gun by dropping the slide on an empty chamber it would take a lot of cycles to break something serious but you do get a slower closing with a round is being stripped off the magazine. If you have a gun that's not closing as fast, it is probably not broken in! Would I sit in front of the TV and repeatedly pull back my slide to lock and then pull the slide stop down to let it fly forward? No! What you will do is bend the metal tab or wear down the plastic tab on the follower that activates the automatic slide stop. Don't push the slide stop down against magazine resistance! It is meant to pop up the slide stop in the absence of resistance! If you want to drop your slide on an empty chamber, drop your mag first!

[tangolima]

Dropping the slide on empty magazine dumps all the energy on the frame. In 1911, it could peen the slide stop hole prematurely. All and all, it can only hurt things. It is not unreasonable the store doesn't want people to do it.

Some newer gun designs have compound recoil springs. It may seem like a buffer. Nevertheless I wouldn't it to my own guns still.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Tool]

Thanks for the explanations.

On a similar topic, are polymer guns better in this regard, because they do not have a metal to metal friction problem?

[JohnKSa]

There are some guns where dropping the slide on an empty chamber is not recommended and may actually result in damage--1911s with custom trigger work should not be treated in this manner.

It's not usually an issue with production guns, but even then, a constant hammering is not really advisable. It's not like doing it is buying you anything in terms of practice or technique development, it's just making noise and putting wear and tear on the gun. It's not so much the friction of the slide on the rails as it is the slide slamming closed without any cushioning effect from chambering a round.

There are very few polymer guns where the slide rides on plastic rails and none currently in production. In general, polymer guns are the same as metal guns for this purpose. The slide rides on metal rails, the slide hits a metal barrel and drives it into battery, etc.

My guess is your store is just tired of people dropping the slides on their guns. It's irritating and serves no purpose and my guess is they've had enough of it. Since the guns are theirs, they get to make the rule.

[gwpercle]

When in doubt ... always be gently . Slowly letting slide cycle back and forth is just being gentle . Dropping the slide on a loaded magazine to chamber the first round was how I was taught ... but on an empty chamber I ease the slide forward ...
The Pistol is my Baby and I treat her like a new born ... gently !
No sense adding any wear and tear if you don't need too .

Will dropping the slide on a empty chamber damage the pistol ... I don't really know but I'm not willing to take that chance ... so I be Gentle .
Gary

[Tool]

Super helpful. Many thanks to you all for sharing your knowledge on this topic!

[tangolima]

Originally Posted by Tool

Thanks for the explanations.

On a similar topic, are polymer guns better in this regard, because they do not have a metal to metal friction problem?

From energy point of view, it doesn't really matter. The kinetic energy of the slide is still being dumped on the some part of the frame. That part is what stops the slide from flying forward like a dart.

In a Glock it is the slide stop lever, the winky ding that needs to pulled down after dry firing to remove the slide off the frame. The part is well designed in modern gun designs with plenty of bearing surfaces to transfer the impact. In 1911, however, the slide stop is a shaft through a hole, which is not very good for managing impact. Peening can happen rather easily.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[44 AMP]

In 1911, however, the slide stop is a shaft through a hole, which is not very good for managing impact. Peening can happen rather easily.

If peening "happens rather easily" I'd say the parts are not made properly. I base this on personal inspection of a couple divisions worth of GI .45s in the later 70s while it was still the service pistol.

The newest of those guns had been in Army service for slightly over 30 years and some over 50. None of them showed any peening of the frame or the slide stop, and you KNOW generations of GIs let the slides slam shut empty A LOT!!

From a straight mechanical point of view, there is nothing gained and some extra stress on the mechanism letting the slide (or bolt) slam shut on an empty chamber.

There are guns that are built to take that a truly staggering amount of times with no damage, and there are guns that are not built for that.

[tangolima]

The "rather easily" comment is on round shaft in a round hole arrangement. It is a weak design. Unless for a tight fit, the area of contact is very small, theoretically zero.

I haven't seen one myself, but few friends who spent time in the service were not big fans of the 1911 they were given. Loosy goosy. One part was the slide stop wobbling in the hole. When I bought my first pistol, I wanted a surplus .45 auto. "Why do you want that?" They disapproved. M9 had become the service pistol. I ended up getting a Beretta 92.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Wag]

Opinion only: If you're out shooting the pistol and you put thousands of rounds through it, the slide is slamming back and forth for each round. Seems like the occasional drop of a slide on an empty chamber isn't going to be problematic, relatively speaking.

I suppose if you were to sit there and rack the slide and drop it a couple thousand times, it wouldn't cause any problems either but what's the point of doing that?

In a gun store that has a couple thousand people coming in and dropping the slide all day every day, maybe that's a potential problem.

I dunno.

--Wag--

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Tool

On a similar topic, are polymer guns better in this regard, because they do not have a metal to metal friction problem?

First, metal guns don't have a metal to metal friction "problem." The friction of the slide on the frame is unrelated to any harm that might be caused by dropping the slide on an empty chamber.

Second, polymer guns still have metal to metal friction. The slides are metal, and as far as I know they all have a metal insert with the rails and action housing, encased in an outer polymer shell. The metal slides still ride on metal rails, and the internal action parts are still metal.

[Shadow9mm]

My understanding is 2 fold. 1, i know glock says it is a slide stop, not a slide release. Using it to drop the slide wears out the slide and lever over time and can cause it to malfunction. I cant speak for any other manufacturers. But it is wear and tear on a gun.


Reason 2, is the extractor may be impacting the barrel, causing stress hardening making it brittle and prone to breaking. This was particularly an issue with older guns and is now kind of a long standing tradition

If you look at your recoil spring under the barrel, on your pdp, its a doubke spring setup. So they can stage the slide return and mitigate recoil. Its a newer design.

[44 AMP]

The "rather easily" comment is on round shaft in a round hole arrangement. It is a weak design.

Weak design?? because it may not last until the energy death of the universe??

Weak by who's standards?? The standards of 1910 or 2024?? I suppose one ought to be able to come up with a "better" (stronger?) design, when one has decades of service use of the older design to study and try to improve on. Odd how so few people actually have significantly improved the 1911 design over the past 110+ years.

Yes, lots of the GI guns were "loosey goosey" by the time they were replaced, but think about how long those guns had GI's playing with them. And I do mean playing. Lots of those guns were essentially worn out, not by shooting, not by the "rigors of combat", but by the fact that GIs had been taking them apart and putting them back together, snapping slides shut empty and doing what GIs do when its not their personal property, (which is treat them roughly and not care much cause, if it breaks they won't be paying out of their pocket to get it fixed or replaced) for 40, 50, sometimes 60 years or more, frequently, or even daily.

I've heard, but never personally seen, that letting the slide slam shut empty can damage the trigger job on 1911s. The one I have hasn't been bothered by it. I have my father's Govt model, which had a trigger job (and target sights) done sometime in the late 1960s. In the 60 years that gun has been in my family, it has probably had the slide slammed shut empty several hundreds if not a thousand or more times. Trigger pull today is the same as it was then, short, crisp, clean 3lbs with just enough take up to feel, and about no felt overtravel. In my hands the gun will shoot 5 rnds into one ragged hole at 25 yds. It doesn't get better than that, not in my hands, anyway.

I do have some pistols where I will NOT let the slide/bolt slam shut empty. Magnum autoloaders, with huge heavy (even massive) parts driven by some very strong springs. Rare collector pieces, and a few others. For service class semis, pocket guns and .22s, I don't worry abou it much.

[Bill DeShivs]

Slamming metal parts together creates deformation and work-hardening. This is mitigated when the gun is actually loading a round.

[cdoc42]

I'm certainly not an engineer or anything like it when math is involved, but for what it might be worth, I'll offer the following: a cartridge takes up space in the gun and I'm just guessing that the manufacturer and/or the developer of the firearm has to consider those dimensions. In the absence of the cartridge, the space is unoccupied, so any forces necessary to facilitate the presence of the cartridge are gone, and over time, the energy has nowhere to go and weakens the elemental structure of the firearm.

Do the instruction manuals that accompany the firearms caution against the activity being discussed?

[jar]

The 1911 that somehow followed my Dad home from his 4 year all expenses paid tour of North Africa, Italy, the Mediterranean and the Persian Gulf was so loose it rattled while in a sock at the back of a dresser drawer behind and under inches of clothes.

Still worked and he was able to shoot stuff with it.

[JohnKSa]

The looseness isn't going to hurt anything, in fact it might make it more reliable, to a point.

But if the issue is peening where you have a round pin going through a round hole, the tighter the fit, the less peening you will see. The tighter fit means more surface area in contact between the hole and the pin which means less chance of metal deformation/peening/etc.

In other words, dropping the slide on an empty chamber will put more stress on the slide stop pin (in designs where the slide stop pin is part of the "in battery system" if the gun is loose, than if the gun is tight. Not an issue for function, but potentially for durability if one is given to constantly dropping the slide on an empty chamber.

I'll offer the following: a cartridge takes up space in the gun and I'm just guessing that the manufacturer and/or the developer of the firearm has to consider those dimensions. In the absence of the cartridge, the space is unoccupied, so any forces necessary to facilitate the presence of the cartridge are gone, and over time, the energy has nowhere to go and weakens the elemental structure of the firearm.

For the purposes of dropping the slide on an empty chamber, the main issue is that the process of stripping a round from the magazine and feeding it into the chamber takes a decent amount of energy. If that process is not performed (because the slide is being dropped without feeding a round) then the energy that would normally be used to perform those actions is instead being used to slam parts of the gun against each other with more force than normal.

This isn't a huge deal. It's not like dropping the slide a time or two on an empty chamber is going to cause any problems. But if it is done a lot it can lead to accelerated wear and potentially parts breakage.

As I mentioned earlier, that's probably not what the store is concerned with. They are probably just tired of people slamming the slides on their guns all the time. It's noisy and irritating and serves no purpose.

[44 AMP]

As I mentioned earlier, that's probably not what the store is concerned with. They are probably just tired of people slamming the slides on their guns all the time. It's noisy and irritating and serves no purpose.

And they're doing it to guns they don't own! They're probably also pretty down on people flipping the cylinders of DA revolvers open and shut, or flipping a double shotgun closed like they do in the movies. I would be!

As John said, its not the space the cartridge take up (if you check, there IS metal to metal contact when the round is fully chambered) it is the mass of the cartridge, and stripping it from the magazine that slows down the slide SLIGHTLY. Metal to metal contact and force transfer is not, and cannot be eliminated, but it is SLIGHTLY reduced.

In a way there are some similarities with dry firing. Once in a while, or even every time you put the gun away for storage, shouldn't hurt anything.

Do it a bazillion times, because you can, or for "training" and it can damage SOME gun designs. Rimfires where the firing pin can hit the chamber edge, for sure, center fires (without snap caps) where the firing pin comes to a sudden violent stop steel on steel can lead to crystallization and eventual breakage. There are guns with designs that do not have this issue. I have an owner's manual from the first Ruger Blackhawk (new model) I bought that specificially states "Dry firing will not harm this gun"

And, before some Marine reminds us that they spent a whole week "snapping in" in boot camp before ever going to the range, I would point out that the Marines (and the military in general) don't care about possible damage due to dry firing. Its not likely with their guns, and even if it does happen, they have an entire organization of trained repairmen and spare parts on call for virtually every piece of equipment they use.

Additionally, every military arm is normally locked open (if that applies) to show clear, then slammed shut empty and dry fired before it goes into its storage rack. One of the tests we did as arms room inspectors was to, at random, reach into the rack and pull triggers. If it went "click" it was a gig.

One time, I did this (it was part of the inspection critera) and got a BOOM!!! instead of a click. As you might imagine, this caused more than a bit of consternation with our company commander as in the quarters we were using at the time, the arms room was on the other side of the wall of his office!! There was no physical damage to the building as the "round" that fired was a blank. But trust me, there was some damage to some egos, and to both the guy who was assigned that weapon, and to the unit armorer!
I think some Article 15s resulted from that, but I was both in the clear and in the right, for performing my duty as specified.

[Drm50]

No brainer, gun engineered to peel a round out of magazine while slide goes into battery.
Letting slide slam shut just puts undue wear on your pistol. Making a habit of it will cause damage sooner or later.
Same thing with guys Hollywooding their revolvers. Snapping cylinders closed on DAs and spinning cylinders in SAs and dropping hammer. Those cylinders have flywheel effect and sudden stop eats up the locking notches.

[RickB]

In the 1980s, there were M1911A1 pistols in service with verified round counts of a million.
The expected service life of the M9 was 5000 rounds . . .

[JohnKSa]

The expected service life of the M9 was 5000 rounds . . .

That was the contractually mandated minimum service life, not the expected service life. Testing showed a much longer actual service life.

https://www.mca-marines.org/leathern...he-beretta-m9/

"Regarding service life, the published requirement was for the pistol to survive 5,000 rounds on average."

This document discusses the mandated service life of the trials that the M9 eventually won.
http://archive.gao.gov/d4t4/130439.pdf

[44 AMP]

Letting slide slam shut just puts undue wear on your pistol. Making a habit of it will cause damage sooner or later.

Agreed, in principle. Now the question is, will that damage happen in your lifetime, or grandson's lifetime, or his grandson's lifetime??

Generally speaking, guns intended for military, police and personal defense are rather overbuilt. They can, of course be abused, but normally they will tolerate a lot before something needs repair. And every part on a semi auto pistol is replaceable. As long as you keep the same frame (serial numbered part), its legally the same gun.

Everything mechanical has a failure point, the better designed and better made the machine is, the more cycles you get before something fails. How the machine is operated makes a difference too, either small or huge, depending on the specific situation.

In a somewhat flawed comparison, if you rev your engine past the red line, just a tiny bit, once in a while, you're not likely to see any premature failures.

But, if you go well past the red line and do it ALL THE TIME you likely will have something fail earlier than it should.

[Jim567]

When I was young infantry soldier, and I was issued a 45 --
I was usually down range and bored.
I spent a good part of the day dry firing, slamming the slide forward, and God knows what.
Pistols rarely very rarely got fired at the range.
But - they sure got mechanically abused.
Now, my 1911s are pampered as much as possible.

[Recycled bullet]

In a privately owned Gun Shop they can make whatever rules they want as far as how you handle property that belongs to them. Of course once you have bought it belongs to you then you get to make the rules. My assumption is that they got tired of hearing slides slamming shut and possible that they may be attempting to prevent the slight "wear in" that occurs on the slide stop lever and the slide when the gun is new. I've had gun shops ask me not to dry fire a double action revolver - stated intention of preventing the development of a turn ring on the cylinder. I respect their rules, it is their property. It's also potentially their and my loss because that's how I check it out mechanically. Eventually all the guns will get sold.