Enough of this P99 crap

[P99]

Tamara,

That plastic punch isn't for punching out the roll pins on the grip. Its for taking the magazine bottom off. Someone needs to read their manual.

P99

[355sigfan]

P99

Want to compare the few departments you listed with the 70% of leo's using glocks. Also I owned the Walther and I own several glocks Glocks are perfection. I have owned sigs, beretta's, HK's and I have found glocks to be the best just as have most other cops. The SW99 is the same gun as the P99 only difference is the external appearance and the stamp saying smith and wesson vs walther. Get a grip you bought a pos just admit it.
PAT

[Tamara]

The P99 is being used by police forces in ... Germany.

Er, which laender use the P-99?

Bundeskriminalamt is going to the P-8 (USP) and all the laender are following suit. The various states are transitioning to the P-8 from the P-5 (Walther P5), the P-6 (SIG P-225) and the P-7 (HK P7PSP).

[P99]

355,

If they are the same, why are they made by two different companies? (with the exception being the frame) They are not the same. They don't look alike. The slide and barrel are made from different metals and are finished differently. So to call them the same, ha. The SW99's that NJSP ordered were changed even more from the original design. Shall we put a manual safety on your Glock???

No I don't have a POS. I've also owned all those guns you've mentioned and guess what's in my safe now? None of those listed.

P99

[Tamara]

Someone needs to read their manual.

"What it's for" and "What it winds up getting used for" are frequently two different things.

For instance, the little plastic hood and rod that get included with Glocks are supposed to be used for loading mags and cleaning bores, but they usually get used to collect dust or fill trashcans.

[P-99er]

Tamara,

I let a Range Officer shoot my P-99. His first shot at 10 yards was maybe 1\8 inch off absolute dead center. That was not using a rest. That amazed me.

Your quote is probably by someone who didn't like their reviews on some type of gun. Amazing how so many people take things so personal. I trust the reviews from Gun Tests far more than any input I get off a forum.

What I read from Gun Tests and what I have seen with my own eyes are almost identical. And not just with respect to the P-99.They have reviewed most of my pistols at some point.

Ransom Rest? I don't have one of those when I am in situation on the street. Hold on Mr BG let me set up my Ransom rest, I sure don't use one at the range.

I suppose you prefer reviews in a magazine like "American Handgunner", "Combat Handguns" etc. Do you like the term "knock down power", exciting isn't it? Knock down power, sounds way too cool. Ayoob likes it too.

Now I am defending not only the P-99 but a magazine that does not take paid advertising. All that because the P-99 is a fine handgun.

[P99]

"Want to compare the few departments you listed with the 70% of leo's using glocks. "

Oh yea that's really fair. Lets see the Glock's been out since the 80's and the P99 has been out since '94-95. Didn't it take Glock a few years to get to were they are now? I will say that old Gaston is a great marketer. He knows how spin his words to sell something. Like I said, lets give it 5 more years and we'll see what happens.

Did your commanders in Bethel, AK test all makes of guns or did they go with the cheapest gun they could buy? Its my understanding that Gaston give a huge discount to departments that buy his gun. I know this to be true because my friend bought his jam-o-matic Glock for less than $400. That included his hi-caps! Like I said Gaston is a great business man.

P99

[P-99er]

P-99: Let's just give up. It will be our little secret. Let them say what they want to say and believe what they want to believe.

The P-99 will be our little secret.

[Tamara]

I let a Range Officer shoot my P-99. His first shot at 10 yards was maybe 1\8 inch off absolute dead center. That was not using a rest. That amazed me.

It doesn't amaze me; I've seen my roommate stand flat-footed and put a full mag from his P-99 into a 1'x2' rock over 200yds away. I've fired it and watched him fire it and with the exception of a handfull of wheelguns, my P7M8, a couple of 1911's and his P-225, the Walther shot the nicest groups at the range with the least effort I've experienced in years. They're darned accurate.

Your quote is probably by someone who didn't like their reviews on some type of gun. Amazing how so many people take things so personal. I trust the reviews from Gun Tests far more than any input I get off a forum.

No, my quote was from someone whose handgun knowledge eclipses mine, and who (like me) noticed the inconsistency of tests in Gun Tests. Some are thourough and scientific. Some seem like high school science projects. Some turn in results that accord with what I've seen over my 16 years in this hobby, and others have results that must come from a parallel universe or are caused by a massive unfamiliarity with what they're trying to study.

What I read from Gun Tests and what I have seen with my own eyes are almost identical. And not just with respect to the P-99.They have reviewed most of my pistols at some point.

If it makes you happy.

Ransom Rest? I don't have one of those when I am in situation on the street. Hold on Mr BG let me set up my Ransom rest, I sure don't use one at the range.

When you come up with a better way of testing mechanical accuracy that removes as many shooter-induced variables as possible, let us know.

I suppose you prefer reviews in a magazine like "American Handgunner", "Combat Handguns" etc. Do you like the term "knock down power", exciting isn't it? Knock down power, sounds way too cool. Ayoob likes it too.

No, I prefer reviews based on my own experience and those of a handful of people I know and whose opinions have proven reliable over time.

As far as folks whose reviews you can trust on forums, I'd recommend starting by ignoring those that use the words "rules", "best", "ultimate", "sucks" and "tactical".

(Although American Handgunner is worth flipping through for the pretty pictures. )

[P99]

"As far as folks whose reviews you can trust on forums, I'd recommend starting by ignoring those that use the words "rules", "best", "ultimate", "sucks" and "tactical". "


Tamara,

You are as wise as you are beautiful. Outstandingly so.



P99

[NMGlocker]

The SW99 is the same gun as the P99 only difference is the external appearance and the stamp saying smith and wesson vs walther. Get a grip you bought a pos just admit it.

Once AGAIN you amaze me with your complete ignorance about the subjects that you so vehemently argue!
I am truly in awe of the depths of your ignorance!
Lets look at the SW99 and the P99.


hmmmm. externally they look different.
How about the measurements?
SW99...OAL 7.125"
P99...OAL 7"
1/8" thats not much, but it is different.
SW99...weight 25.4oz.
P99...weight 25oz.
pretty close, 1/2oz. we'll call it a draw.
How about the materials used.
SW99...slide is Melonite treated stainless steel.
P99...slide is Tenifer treated hardened steel.
Quite a bit of difference there.
Now to what really counts.
SW99...Slide and all upper internals, made by S&W in Mass. USA
P99...slide and all upper internals, made in Germany.
Why is this so important? Because Walther engineered the P99, S&W just licensed the plans. When you compare a P99 to a SW99 the superior fit and finish of the Walther are immediately apparent. If you want an even more dramatic comparison of Walther vs. S&W quality control, compare a Walther P88 with a S&W Performance Center pistol. The Walther once again beats the S&W on fit and finish, and this is comparing a "assembly line" Walther with a "factory custom" S&W.
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with the P99, maybe you got a lemon, just like i'm sure many people are sorry that they bought a Glock that later KB'd.
But your one man crusade against anything non-Glock is just tiresome.

[P-99er]

NMGlocker: Maybe he got a first run SW99 and is trying to pass it off as a P-99. Maybe he doesn't know there is a difference.

When S&W started producing the SW-99 Walther got an example of the product. The quality was so lacking they had S&W stop production. Walther engineers actually came to teach Smith how to build it correctly. That help never made it comparable but it did get a little better. There weren't but a couple thousand made before Walther tried to help out.

Having held and shot both the SW99 and the P-99 I can only assume one thing: When Walther sold the rights to Smith they either sold the specs a little sloppier or they made Smith agree never to match the quality of the German made.

I can understand. If I was going to sell production rights of my newest model to another company who was then going to compete with me, I would make sure they did not make it better or the same. That is the only way I can figure why there is so much difference. Other than possibly that Smith isn't as good as I thought. After all, their bread and butter are Wheelers and never really been semi-auto.

It does make for an interesting story though.

[P99]

P99er,

Agreed! I'm going to drop it now. I just can't believe it when the glucksters get all bent out of shape when you call them on their "perfection" crap. I think the Glock is a good gun, but hardly perfection. They aren't all that great and yes they do jamb, just like any other gun out there. That's why it is always wise to test a variety of ammo before settling on just one brand.

P99

[P99]

"Er, which laender use the P-99? "

Tamara,

I can't remember off hand. Maybe I'm wrong on this one. However I do know for fact that there are police forces in Portugal, Spain, Malaysia, England(Devonshire and Notinghamshire) and I believe its Miami County Sheriff's Department that are using the P99. (Actually the Notinghamshire are using the P990)

I'll see if I can figure out who it was in Germany that was using the P99.

I guess my main point is, look for the P99 to be used by more American Police forces in the near future.

P99

[Shmackey]

Back to the price issue: Walthers, Glocks, and HKs are *all* overpriced. The cost of the materials in these guns and even the meager marketing is a tiny fraction of the cost. They're pieces of plastic and metal that make something shoot out the front. I would (and did) get a CZ-75 before any of these pistols.

That said, I don't think it's fair to say that the HK USPs aren't "worth more" than Glocks. They would be to me; if I were going to get a plasti-gun, it'd be a USP Compact because you can carry it cocked and locked, DA, DA with safety on, and so forth--whatever you prefer. As far as I'm concerned, DA trigger pulls stink and guns with no real manual safety stink. That's my opinion, but that's what makes a USP far more attractive to me.

Besides, where's the .45 P99?

[leej]

I own one P99 in 9mm and two Glocks in 9mm. The P99 beats the Glocks in the accuracy dept. I think this may be due to two reasons. One reason is a better quality barrel in the P99 and also a superior single action trigger.

As far as reliability. I have fired some military surplus ammo I bought at a gun show and the P99 was 100 per cent reliable with it. Both 9mm glocks failed to dent the primers hard enough to fire some of this ammo and as a result I am not comfortable trusting my Glocks for use as a defense pistol but I still do have confidence in the Walther P99 because it has not failed me in any way.

Is there anyone out there that can give me a well written technical explanation about the difference between the standard P99 trigger( which is the one I own) and the P99 QA trigger. How do the double and single action trigger systems differ between the standard and QA systems? Is it only in the distance of trigger reset that basically differentiates the two systems?

[New_comer]

In another thread "Most overrated", agtman said,

HK USPs.
Good guns, but not $500 better than several others out there.

To which i commented

I bought my USP9 for $525.00 NIB. Please, no, PLEASE!! refer me to a model that shoots just as well, had no problems after 1000+ rds of all types of ammo (yessiree, plain lead bullets work just fine!), a looker at the range (where i shoot, at least), fast trigger, crisp SA, extra heavy DA (i LIKE it!), etc. etc. for $25. You'd be doing the gun community a lot of good for this unselfish act...

and linked



From which I'm quite sure is the reason this latest statement came out:

Okay, well, my working-class 2-cents says that HK USPs are overrated pretty-boy poser guns. Alternately, USPs also qualify as overpriced drool-toys for mall ninjas with SEAL-wannabe fantasies (like the ones who post HK P.R. ninja pics on TFL).

Well, sir, I'm also a regular working class, monthly pay, law-abiding citizen, with a fascination for high tech, sci-fi, often military-related concepts and products, to which, i sincerely believe, that the great majority of the gun-loving, owning, and gun-supporting community belongs to. Here, it's the GLOCK that falls in the category you've described. USP's are bought mostly by urban professional executives (which i would want to become someday), who know how to discern "overpriced drool toys", and have the mental clarity to realize that such a product could not possibly be made for $25.

Hey, Tamara, I thought you put the final kabosh on this whole "TRIBES" thingy

But by disenfranchising a certain segment of the gun community by your recent comments, you are in fact, promoting the ' "Tribes" thingy ' situation to worsen. I'm sure it's not just me, but i notice that you don't pass up the opportunity to lambast the USP. May i ask, sir, have you given it a try?


Respectfully,


New_comer

[Rocko357]

Oh boy, we're knee deep in it again !!!!

[Tamara]

Once again, please; argue pistols, not persons.

[Duke of Lawnchair]

My Glock 226 can outshoot all of y'all Sig 99's.

BLAH BLAH BLAH

[NMGlocker]

Is there anyone out there that can give me a well written technical explanation about the difference between the standard P99 trigger( which is the one I own) and the P99 QA trigger.

Go here http://www.walther-usa.com/p99_specs.htm and look the trigger profile chart over.

[New_comer]

Once again, please; argue pistols, not persons.

Sorry...


Regards,


New_comer

[agtman]

New_Comer, buddy ...


... when you see one of these guys, , it means that any statements preceding it were meant jokingly. Hence, in the spirit of the thread, I asked the Tamster about her thread a while ago on "silly little tribes." (If you missed it, do a Search).

As far as HK USPs go, well, I guess you were able to access a bargain-basement deal w/ a friendly FFL.

Contrast that with retail HK prices in my area.

At my local gun shop around X-mas last, I was checking out a USP Compact (blue) in 45acp. Okay, it felt great in my hand (important for me), and it was chambered in a caliber I respect and have carried in the past. I liked the controls, and the trigger felt pretty good.

Then I flip over the price tag and see $810.

Like an unexpected b*tch-slap, sticker shock set in. Pimpled-face counter-guy reads the "[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]" expression on my working-class face.

"Comes with an extra mag," he says.

"Geez," I say, "even with an extra mag that's still high."

"Well, the price reflects demand."

"Oh, really?"

"Yep. We sell a bunch each month to Special Forces guys."

"Not the ones over at the Mall?"

"No," he says, clearly aggravated. "The one's heading overseas." (He must have have believed all those slogany HK flyers).

He takes back the USP from my proletarian hands. Then he gives the gun a quick wipe with a cloth. What for I can't say, since it's largely plastic and not likely to rust in the next few minutes. Maybe it's a precaution against contamination by a working-class type.

"Hey, check these out," counter-guy says, motioning me over to where the "preowned" guns are displayed. A less upscale neighborhood. More my style, I guess.

As I said in the "Overrated" thread, HK USPs are certainly good guns. No problem with that. But for $800, all of it hard-earned and not X-mas $$$ from mommy, my opinion is that there are equally good guns for less. For that price, you can get, say, a Glock and several pre-ban hi-caps. Now maybe in your area the prices are more reasonable. Okay, so you got a better deal. Don't feel you have to defend it.

Actually I'd like to see HK release a USP in 10mm. There are some on TFL who've "converted" full-size .40s to 10mm by reaming out the barrel, using ParaOrdinance .40 mags, and doing some other tricks. Apparently it works.

Maybe someday I'll pick-up a USP Compact in 45acp. But for now I'm content with my blue-collar pistols.

Have fun.

[New_comer]

Then I flip over the price tag and see $810.

I could certainly relate to that, after a more horrifying $1,800 price tag for a SIG228 was 'proudly' declared by the snobbish store rep. :barf: Who in his right mind...? No wonder the DAC394 and Norinco NP22 have been getting more than their fair share of attention during past gun shows. No question about SIG quality, it's just that these store owners sometimes...

Well (sigh!), i guess i have a buddy after all...

Nothing beats reconciliation!


Best regards,


New_comer

[Tamara]

I could certainly relate to that, after a more horrifying $1,800 price tag for a SIG228

Call that man right now and tell him I'll sell him all of them he wants at only half that price. He'll be able to mark 'em up 100% and make a killing!

(Of course, even if I bought them at full boat retail, I'd be turning a $300ish profit per gun. The drinks would be on me. )