Beretta Tomcat: have the bugs been worked out?

jimmy · January 25, 2001, 12:04 PM

I understand that early production Tomcats had reliability problems. Has Beretta worked the bugs out of this gun? Are current production Tomcats significantly improved?

My dealer just got in a new Tomcat, and I'm tempted. But I'd rather not put money into it without at least some assurance that the pistol will function properly.

Thanks in advance for any responses.

johnwill · January 25, 2001, 06:43 PM

Personally, I'd forget the Tomcat and get the Keltec P32. Smaller, lighter, and less felt recoil too. This is an easy choice...

logansdad · January 25, 2001, 09:02 PM

Had two Tomcat's. Firing pins broke in both. This as less than a year ago. Don't know about recent manufacture, but I'll never trust another one. Got my eye on a NAA Guardian, though.

Coronach · January 25, 2001, 11:29 PM

No. They still sucked as of this year, so much so in fact that our PD has outlawed them as backup/off-duty pieces for its officers. Word is that there are better guns, with the same features, at comparable prices.

Mike

jtduncan · January 26, 2001, 12:09 AM

No . . . they're still chunky thick little ammo-sensitive jammomatics. Other than the Cheetah and the 92, I wouldn't buy a Beretta.

LightningLink · January 26, 2001, 09:26 AM

I've had my Tomcat for about a year and have stuffed a few hundred rounds through it with no problems. It has been 100% reliable with silvertips but occasionally jams on ball (maybe 10 times total).

Nevertheless, I will be looking for a Kel-Tec P32 at the gunshow this weekend. Why? Well, as pocket pistols go, the Tomcat is probably one of the biggest. I also have the stainless version which has a wider slide than the regular version. And weight, jeez the P32 is almost half the weight. There are also a lot more pocket holster varieties available for the P32. So, I currently have a pocket pistol for carry that I don't carry because it's too bulky for a pocket. Ironic, huh?

I love my 92F and Cheetah/84FS (coincidental, eh jtduncan?), but my Tomcat appears to be on it's way out the door.

LL

Coronach · January 26, 2001, 09:57 AM

For those of you who might recall prior posts on this subject, back when I was in police academy the Tomcat was allowed as an off-duty/backup weapon. 5 recruits (I think) bought one, despite the Ordies' unofficial advice to avoid them like the plague. the 'Jamcat' had the most spectacular failure rate of any gun I have ever seen that wasn't made by Lorcin or Jennings. 4 recruits returned them to the (very unhappy) dealer post-haste. One kept his, since it seemed immune to whatever ailed the other 4. Out of curiosity I followed up and asked this guy if he still had his. He said he, too had ditched it shortly after graduation. Apparently karma caught up with that one as well. In his words the gun was a "complete piece of s***."

5 out of 5 recruits say no to the Jamcat.

Mike

Tamara · January 26, 2001, 10:14 AM

Maybe mine doesn't know it's a "Jam-o-matic". It has been entirely reliable for the fifteen months that I've owned it; the only stoppages it's had (2) both occurred during an extended range session when I fired 125+ rounds through the thing at one sitting and the little blowback-operated beastie got just filthy. The two people I've recommended newer Tomcats to also seemed happy with theirs. Do not dry fire them, as it will bust the firing pin.

I've put about 1k rounds through this thing with 2 stoppages, both during the same firing session, both in a filthy pistol. But I'll defer to those with greater experience with Tomcats than I. Like those guys who heard from the cousin of the best friend of their department's armourer...

Shawn Dodson · January 26, 2001, 12:45 PM

I've had my Tomcat since early 1997, and I shoot it frequently. I've experienced none of the problems reported by others. I carry mine frequently, primarily when I want to arm myself for a short trip to the store or to run the kids somewhere. I store it on the top of the kitchen cabinets. I just grab it, load it and stick it in my jacket pocket or use a Bianchi model 100 clip-on IWB holster. (My other "primary" handgun is a G19, which is stored bedside in a GunVault. I carry it in a Milt Sparks Executive's Companion IWB holster, which is usually locked-up in the closet gun safe so it doesn't get misplaced.)

I own several Berettas: model 20, .25ACP; model 21A, .22LR; model 3032 Tomcat .32ACP; model 85F, .380ACP; and model 96FS, .40 S&W. They've all been reliable handguns.

But if I were to do it again, I'd probably get a P32 instead, due to its smaller size. It wasn't available when I bought my Tomcat. But I have a Tomcat, which has been reliable for me, and I don't see the need to spend money to replace it. It works fine and meets my needs.

Coronach · January 26, 2001, 10:42 PM

Tamara, I'm not sure if that was a poke at me or not (

), so I'll take the high road and assume it was not (and besides, I was actually present for most of the cursing and swearing involved, no armourer's cousin involved, so it must not be me). I'm glad your Tomcat is immune to whatever ails the ones they ship to my town.

Mike

Tamara · January 26, 2001, 11:56 PM

For as you mentioned, you were an eyewitness. It's those who blast my little gem based totally on hearsay that chap my hide.

Marko Kloos · January 27, 2001, 12:19 AM

I've owned two Tomcats, and they both worked out fine. No stoppages, no malfunctions or broken parts, even with Tomcat No.2 pulling ankle rig duty and getting linted up on a regular basis. If there's a downside to them, it's their size...they are pretty big for their caliber when you compare them to the Guardian or especially the P-32. On the other hand, the size issue works in their favor...they are the mildest shooting .32 pistols, and also the most accurate due to usable sights. They feel and shoot like much bigger guns.

Quality issues? Not with any of the Tomcats that went through my hands. The rear of the slide is very sharp indeed, but the whole gun is well made, and I never had anything break on my two very reliable Tomcats. That's as much as one can ask from a gun.

johnwill · January 27, 2001, 11:00 AM

Having actually shot the Tomcat, the Seecamp, and currently owning an NAA Guardian and a Keltec P32, I'd say the P32 has the softest apparent recoil of the bunch. It may be the lightest, but the locked breech seems to soak up most of the recoil. I also think the Tomcat is too big for a .32ACP pistol, though the ones I have direct experience with didn't have any significant reliability problems.

logansdad · January 27, 2001, 12:09 PM

As for my experiences with the two Tomcat's that I owned, I WISH that they had performed. I loved the mode of operation (you could carry them Condition One!!), the arrangement of the manual safety (1911-style), and their reliability (only experienced a few FTF's/FTE's early on during break-in).

My main problems were that the triggers were HORRIBLE - even in single action - and the firing pin breakages. Both firing pins broke while dry firing WITH SNAP CAPS in the chambers. With the first breakage, I had to fight with Beretta to repair it. On the second one, I simply ordered a new firing pin and replaced it myself to save S&H and time. After those two mechanical failures I simply could not trust them anymore. I do not recall any recommendation in the owner's manual against dry firing them.

As for their size, I thought that they struck a good balance - not too tiny to hold on to and not too big for concelament. For the brief period that I carried mine, I kept it in a Blocker pocket holster in my right hip pocket. Looked just like a wallet from the rear.

CoastieN70 · January 27, 2001, 04:12 PM

I've got about 500 rounds through mine, I shoot it every couple of months. I had a couple stopages during the first 50 rounds and have not had a malfunction since. Mine is a sweet shooter.

Size is perfact for my large palmed short fingered hands. Speaking of size, it wasn't long ago that the PPK was the smallest readially available .32 out there and my Tomcat is a heck of alot smaller and lighter. I have shot all the readially available .32's (seacamp not being readially available) and even checked out the P32. Ergonomicly the Tomcat fits best for me.

BTW I feed mine Gold Dots for carry and practice with UMC hardball. I finish each practice session with my then carry ammo (the Gold Dots) and refresh my carry ammo at that time.

This is a back-up weapon most of the time and what I call a "Church Gun" (only God can see it) when my USPc 357Sig can not be concealed properly.

7th Fleet · January 27, 2001, 11:02 PM

Forget the Bobcat and get a Keltec P-32, smaller, lighter, more reliable and easier concealed than the clunky Beretta.

7th

cobraman · January 29, 2001, 08:54 AM

My Tomcat has also perfect. I have one of those strange sized and shaped hands Med size palm extra short fingers. Tomcat fits well and functions great

jimmy · January 29, 2001, 09:58 AM

I appreciate the responses. Over the weekend I went back to the dealer and had another look at the Tomcat. This is the "Alley Cat" variant, with the front night sight. On the surface, it appears to be a very well made gun. Plus, it's a good fit in my large hand. But I realize that, regardless of how good it looks and feels in the shop, the test is its performance at the range.

And then there's the price tag: $350! Ouch!

ruda · January 29, 2001, 01:48 PM

I've been ghosting this board for a while now and finally decided i should respond.

I got my tomcat through Auction arms for $200 in 98% condition. This little gem has NEVER failed at anything. Even though i carry it everyday and shoot it at least twice a month. It feeds FMJ or hollowpoints without a pause. The p32 and guardians are smaller and lighter, and although i've never shot one, they just don't feel good in my hands, i think they are too small.

One other note. Before i heard the warnings about dry firing, i dry fired mine all the time and no problems. also i went and looked in the owners manual and there is a warning about dry firing.

January 25, 2001, 11:29 PM	#4
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	No. They still sucked as of this year, so much so in fact that our PD has outlawed them as backup/off-duty pieces for its officers. Word is that there are better guns, with the same features, at comparable prices. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

January 26, 2001, 12:09 AM	#5
jtduncan Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 1999 Location: Seattle, Washington, USA Posts: 1,686	No . . . they're still chunky thick little ammo-sensitive jammomatics. Other than the Cheetah and the 92, I wouldn't buy a Beretta. __________________ The Seattle SharpShooter Reloaded .223 Rem, 9mm, 40SW, 357 SIG, 10mm, 44 Mag, 45 ACP Today?

January 26, 2001, 09:57 AM	#7
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	My academy class and the 'Jamcat' For those of you who might recall prior posts on this subject, back when I was in police academy the Tomcat was allowed as an off-duty/backup weapon. 5 recruits (I think) bought one, despite the Ordies' unofficial advice to avoid them like the plague. the 'Jamcat' had the most spectacular failure rate of any gun I have ever seen that wasn't made by Lorcin or Jennings. 4 recruits returned them to the (very unhappy) dealer post-haste. One kept his, since it seemed immune to whatever ailed the other 4. Out of curiosity I followed up and asked this guy if he still had his. He said he, too had ditched it shortly after graduation. Apparently karma caught up with that one as well. In his words the gun was a "complete piece of s***." 5 out of 5 recruits say no to the Jamcat. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

January 26, 2001, 10:14 AM	#8
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	Silly me, Maybe mine doesn't know it's a "Jam-o-matic". It has been entirely reliable for the fifteen months that I've owned it; the only stoppages it's had (2) both occurred during an extended range session when I fired 125+ rounds through the thing at one sitting and the little blowback-operated beastie got just filthy. The two people I've recommended newer Tomcats to also seemed happy with theirs. Do not dry fire them, as it will bust the firing pin. I've put about 1k rounds through this thing with 2 stoppages, both during the same firing session, both in a filthy pistol. But I'll defer to those with greater experience with Tomcats than I. Like those guys who heard from the cousin of the best friend of their department's armourer... __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

January 26, 2001, 10:42 PM	#10
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Hmmmmm Tamara, I'm not sure if that was a poke at me or not (), so I'll take the high road and assume it was not (and besides, I was actually present for most of the cursing and swearing involved, no armourer's cousin involved, so it must not be me). I'm glad your Tomcat is immune to whatever ails the ones they ship to my town. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

January 25, 2001, 12:04 PM	#1
jimmy Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 1999 Location: Texas Posts: 1,796	I understand that early production Tomcats had reliability problems. Has Beretta worked the bugs out of this gun? Are current production Tomcats significantly improved? My dealer just got in a new Tomcat, and I'm tempted. But I'd rather not put money into it without at least some assurance that the pistol will function properly. Thanks in advance for any responses.

January 25, 2001, 06:43 PM	#2
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	Personally, I'd forget the Tomcat and get the Keltec P32. Smaller, lighter, and less felt recoil too. This is an easy choice...

January 25, 2001, 09:02 PM	#3
logansdad Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2000 Location: Northern KY Posts: 184	Had two Tomcat's. Firing pins broke in both. This as less than a year ago. Don't know about recent manufacture, but I'll never trust another one. Got my eye on a NAA Guardian, though.

January 26, 2001, 09:26 AM	#6
LightningLink Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 1999 Location: Palm Harbor, FL Posts: 105	I've had my Tomcat for about a year and have stuffed a few hundred rounds through it with no problems. It has been 100% reliable with silvertips but occasionally jams on ball (maybe 10 times total). Nevertheless, I will be looking for a Kel-Tec P32 at the gunshow this weekend. Why? Well, as pocket pistols go, the Tomcat is probably one of the biggest. I also have the stainless version which has a wider slide than the regular version. And weight, jeez the P32 is almost half the weight. There are also a lot more pocket holster varieties available for the P32. So, I currently have a pocket pistol for carry that I don't carry because it's too bulky for a pocket. Ironic, huh? I love my 92F and Cheetah/84FS (coincidental, eh jtduncan?), but my Tomcat appears to be on it's way out the door. LL

January 26, 2001, 12:45 PM	#9
Shawn Dodson Junior member Join Date: December 16, 1998 Location: Titusville, FL, USA Posts: 1,030	I've had my Tomcat since early 1997, and I shoot it frequently. I've experienced none of the problems reported by others. I carry mine frequently, primarily when I want to arm myself for a short trip to the store or to run the kids somewhere. I store it on the top of the kitchen cabinets. I just grab it, load it and stick it in my jacket pocket or use a Bianchi model 100 clip-on IWB holster. (My other "primary" handgun is a G19, which is stored bedside in a GunVault. I carry it in a Milt Sparks Executive's Companion IWB holster, which is usually locked-up in the closet gun safe so it doesn't get misplaced.) I own several Berettas: model 20, .25ACP; model 21A, .22LR; model 3032 Tomcat .32ACP; model 85F, .380ACP; and model 96FS, .40 S&W. They've all been reliable handguns. But if I were to do it again, I'd probably get a P32 instead, due to its smaller size. It wasn't available when I bought my Tomcat. But I have a Tomcat, which has been reliable for me, and I don't see the need to spend money to replace it. It works fine and meets my needs.

January 26, 2001, 11:56 PM	#11
Tamara Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 11, 2000 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 16,002	But of course not. For as you mentioned, you were an eyewitness. It's those who blast my little gem based totally on hearsay that chap my hide. __________________ MOLON LABE! 2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium. The Arms Room: An Online Museum.

January 27, 2001, 12:19 AM	#12
Marko Kloos Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Location: Enfield, NH Posts: 5,521	I've owned two Tomcats, and they both worked out fine. No stoppages, no malfunctions or broken parts, even with Tomcat No.2 pulling ankle rig duty and getting linted up on a regular basis. If there's a downside to them, it's their size...they are pretty big for their caliber when you compare them to the Guardian or especially the P-32. On the other hand, the size issue works in their favor...they are the mildest shooting .32 pistols, and also the most accurate due to usable sights. They feel and shoot like much bigger guns. Quality issues? Not with any of the Tomcats that went through my hands. The rear of the slide is very sharp indeed, but the whole gun is well made, and I never had anything break on my two very reliable Tomcats. That's as much as one can ask from a gun. __________________ "The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." --A.E. Van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher the munchkin wrangler.

January 27, 2001, 11:00 AM	#13
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	Having actually shot the Tomcat, the Seecamp, and currently owning an NAA Guardian and a Keltec P32, I'd say the P32 has the softest apparent recoil of the bunch. It may be the lightest, but the locked breech seems to soak up most of the recoil. I also think the Tomcat is too big for a .32ACP pistol, though the ones I have direct experience with didn't have any significant reliability problems.

January 27, 2001, 12:09 PM	#14
logansdad Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2000 Location: Northern KY Posts: 184	As for my experiences with the two Tomcat's that I owned, I WISH that they had performed. I loved the mode of operation (you could carry them Condition One!!), the arrangement of the manual safety (1911-style), and their reliability (only experienced a few FTF's/FTE's early on during break-in). My main problems were that the triggers were HORRIBLE - even in single action - and the firing pin breakages. Both firing pins broke while dry firing WITH SNAP CAPS in the chambers. With the first breakage, I had to fight with Beretta to repair it. On the second one, I simply ordered a new firing pin and replaced it myself to save S&H and time. After those two mechanical failures I simply could not trust them anymore. I do not recall any recommendation in the owner's manual against dry firing them. As for their size, I thought that they struck a good balance - not too tiny to hold on to and not too big for concelament. For the brief period that I carried mine, I kept it in a Blocker pocket holster in my right hip pocket. Looked just like a wallet from the rear.

January 27, 2001, 04:12 PM	#15
CoastieN70 Member Join Date: April 23, 2000 Location: Savannah, GA, USA Posts: 93	I've got about 500 rounds through mine, I shoot it every couple of months. I had a couple stopages during the first 50 rounds and have not had a malfunction since. Mine is a sweet shooter. Size is perfact for my large palmed short fingered hands. Speaking of size, it wasn't long ago that the PPK was the smallest readially available .32 out there and my Tomcat is a heck of alot smaller and lighter. I have shot all the readially available .32's (seacamp not being readially available) and even checked out the P32. Ergonomicly the Tomcat fits best for me. BTW I feed mine Gold Dots for carry and practice with UMC hardball. I finish each practice session with my then carry ammo (the Gold Dots) and refresh my carry ammo at that time. This is a back-up weapon most of the time and what I call a "Church Gun" (only God can see it) when my USPc 357Sig can not be concealed properly.

January 27, 2001, 11:02 PM	#16
7th Fleet Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2000 Posts: 1,469	Forget the Bobcat and get a Keltec P-32, smaller, lighter, more reliable and easier concealed than the clunky Beretta. 7th __________________ SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.

January 29, 2001, 08:54 AM	#17
cobraman Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 1999 Location: orlando fl Posts: 751	My Tomcat has also perfect. I have one of those strange sized and shaped hands Med size palm extra short fingers. Tomcat fits well and functions great

January 29, 2001, 09:58 AM	#18
jimmy Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 1999 Location: Texas Posts: 1,796	I appreciate the responses. Over the weekend I went back to the dealer and had another look at the Tomcat. This is the "Alley Cat" variant, with the front night sight. On the surface, it appears to be a very well made gun. Plus, it's a good fit in my large hand. But I realize that, regardless of how good it looks and feels in the shop, the test is its performance at the range. And then there's the price tag: $350! Ouch!

January 29, 2001, 01:48 PM	#19
ruda Member Join Date: January 29, 2001 Posts: 23	mine's great I've been ghosting this board for a while now and finally decided i should respond. I got my tomcat through Auction arms for $200 in 98% condition. This little gem has NEVER failed at anything. Even though i carry it everyday and shoot it at least twice a month. It feeds FMJ or hollowpoints without a pause. The p32 and guardians are smaller and lighter, and although i've never shot one, they just don't feel good in my hands, i think they are too small. One other note. Before i heard the warnings about dry firing, i dry fired mine all the time and no problems. also i went and looked in the owners manual and there is a warning about dry firing.