Glock Perfection?????????????

[viper]

Greg,

You are right that the Glock is not necessarily the best first gun for a newbie. However, the Glock can be a fantastic first gun after a properly executed safety and combat shooting program before-hand. This is because the Glock is so simple and easy to master for a beginner compared to many other designs. For women, it is particularly good because the slide on the Glock is much easier to rack than on just about any other gun. This is one of the reasons the Israelis like it so much(along with its lightness and reliablility), since they engage in condition 3 carry so often.

Another aspect that makes the Glock great for beginners and women in particular is the lightness of the felt recoil and less required maintenance. I don't want to get the women on the board mad at me, but most would agree that women are not usually known for maintaining mechanical devices with the same zeal and compulsiveness as most men.

A Glock 19 is one of my two main carry guns. The other is my custom hi-power. Do I feel better about carrying my Browning cocked and locked with a round in the chamber vs. carrying my Glock chambered? You bet. The Browning's manual safety gives me some definite piece of mind, particularly if I end up getting into a hands on struggle with someone where my gun can get grabbed. Do I wish Glock offered a frame-mounted sweep-down safety like that on my hi-power? Again, you bet your ass, I do. But they don't.

So, I must deal with this one aspect of the gun. Any beginner should, again, definitely invest in both a safety course for this specific brand, and a combat shooting course by a top notch instructor.

Remember, the Glock was designed as a military handgun, not a civilian or law enforcement handgun.

In my opinion, if Glock designed an ergonomic sweep-down frame mounted safety like on our two favorite single-actions(1911 and hi-power), no one, and I mean NO ONE, would be able to touch it as a carry gun.

[9x45]

Absolutely incredible! After firing about 50,000 rounds thru my 1st gen G21, about 22,000 thru my 2nd gen G21, maybe 7,000 each thru my G19 and G30, and only less than 1,000 thru my G22(it's brand new), I never had even heard of such dangerous stuff like these 3.5 lb triggers and short light pull? Give us a break, first of all, it's a 3.5lb CONNECTOR,not trigger, yielding about 6.5lbs plus pull, a whole lot more than my S&W625 wheelgun, and what short light pull? Some .5" take-up, hitch, and then pull. What? Youv'e never shot a 1911? I shoot every weekend in some type of competitive forum, ie, IPSC, IDPA, Steel Challenge, 2 gun, 3 gun, and have never, ever, heard of, or seen, such dribble-drabble-drool, re-barfed urban legend krap yellow-press lawyer speak stories from this FedMouse, uh, GovRat, no wait, Democratic Vermin.... There are only 2 kinds of people in any forum, the kind that talk, and retalk, and repeat, and repuke, and the kind that shoot. alot!

[AR-10]

I've never been shot at or attacked. I've never pointed a gun at anyone. If I had to pull a Glock in self defense the chances of shooting myself getting it out of the holster(or back in) seem likely. Therefore I don't own one. I don't think this admission makes me an idiot. I think it makes me just like most people, including some police officers. Know your limitations. And stop telling every new guy that comes along that Glocks are perfect for anyone(just keep your finger off the trigger).

[Bradl45]

I really don't think that if glocks had stiffer triggers like a heavy DA revolver, that many of these issues would be solved. When TSHTF if your finger is on the trigger the gun will go bang , be it a Glock or double action revolver, It is a training issue, not a weapon issue. Getting good training will solve most problems. What ever pistol you use, learn it well, and pratice perfect gun handling skills.

Brad

[Will Beararms]

***More agencies are moving too Glocks not away from them.

***Glock aggressively tackled the Police Market with trade in deals reselling the trade-ins to the public? Last time I checked, America was a Constitutional Republic with a capitalistic system and guns are legal to own.

***How do you fire a gun while your'e unloading it? By putting your finger where it shouldn't be. That will happen with ANY semi-auto pistol.

***The sad truth is Glock's withstand the rigors of LEO carry better than any make out there. Will a Sig or Beretta offer the same corrosion resistance? Are they as easy to work on as the Glock? Is the trigger as consistent as the Glock?

TFW you are entitled to your opinions and that's just what they are. Go all the buy non-Glock pistols you want and have by all means enjoy them to the fullest extent possible.

[cuerno de chivo]

if go about shooting yourself with a glock. then you are going to not take the safety of a SA and be killed or will shoot yourself with the single action trigger of a traditional DA. there are 8# and 12# Glock triggers, DAO autos and revolvers for the lowest common denominators.

[Matrixwolf]

Now that I think more about weasels post I bet he works for S&W or has huge corporate interest in the company. Now they are desperate to regain the average NRA joe's support because they realize what a huge buisiness mistake they made by selling out. Come on, all those statistics and all the typing required to post them, sounds like someone has ulterior motives.

[juliet charley]

Viper -

"This is because the Glock is so simple and easy to master for a beginner compared to many other designs. "

I think you may be confusing simple and easy to master. The two are not necessary the same. While the Glock is simple, it is not necessary easy to master nor should it be considered a novice's handgun.

I agree that a sweep-down, frame-mounted safety would make the Glock a better handgun. I also think you make a point that is often overlooked: the Glock was designed for military usage and condition three carry.

[AR-10]

cuerno- You may be right. I hope I never have to find out. SIG works for me. Maybe 1911 after I have a little more shooting experience. All I know is the trigger-safety-thingy doesn't inspire any confidence in me.

[glock35er]

Weasel guy,
If the people represented in your rant would have spent as much time in training as you do in posting,all those AD`s would have been avoided.

[cuerno de chivo]

a sweep down safety on a glock :barf:

jeff cooper quoting some russians,

"Eez gun, No es safe"

[AR-10]

This must be that sequel Tamara was talking about in the SIG mega-thread.

[RWK]

I am not a Glock fan. Try as I might, I just cannot obtain the accuracy from my G23C that I routinely achieve with ALL my other handguns (Colt, H&K USP, Sigs, Kimber, Springfield, and -- wheel guns -- S&Ws and Ruger). This said, however, I am convinced the problem is mine, not Glock's. I simple cannot accept a diatribe that suggests Glocks are other than high quality, reliable, accurate, durable, well designed, and well manufactured.

[MellowMikey]

If you are so incompetent with firearms that you fear a Glock, then go get a nice DAO revolver and STHU.

The ignorant are truly entertaining.

Mikey

[Elmo]

Officer mishandles Glock. Puts finger on trigger when he/she shouldn't. Applies ~6 lbs. of pressure through about 0.5 inches of distance. Glock goes off.

"This is a training issue. If the officer had been trained propertly, this would not have happened. A gun with a heaver and longer trigger would not fix this problem."

Jewelry store owner forgets to disengage safety. Owner is shot five times in the stomach (survives).

"If the owner had a Glock, there would be no safety to forget and this wouldn't have happened."

I've seen these arguments made just today. Both are true, but are hypocritical when made at the same time.

I carry a 27 every day by my own choice, so I must have a pretty good opinion of Glocks. At the same time, the militant arm of the Glock Advocacy League is starting to get on my nerves. This business of attacking the skill-at-arms of people who prefer something other than a Glock is especially grating. I'm pretty tired of seeing comments stating or implying that people who aren't comfortable with the Safe Action system are too stupid to have a gun.

One could just as easily say people who can't handle a thumb safety or shoot accurately with a 12 lb. DA pull have no business with a gun, either.

Now since I'm an equal opportunity offender, I'll close by saying that the opening post was so blatantly slanted I was wondering if it was copied from Salon, Mother Jones, or both. If you want to make the case that the Safe Action system isn't all that safe, fine, but please leave the breathless hyperbole, innuendo, and half-information for Newsweek, Time, and HCI. At least one <i>expects</i> it from them.

[Ala Dan]

Upon introduction to the U.S. market in the 80's, Glock's had to pass several, well documented test; of which a failure of any of them would have forbidden the importation
of these quality handguns into this country. The tested
model passed all test's in flying colors. My personal
opinion is that some people don't want to change with the
times; including me to some extent. The advent
(or use of) Polymer 2 has sucessfully been incorporated
into world class firearms; mainly Glock's. As I see it,
Glock's are an innovative firearm of quality construction; and combined with the world-famous Tennifer process, make it
one of the most desirable firearms on earth!!!

Take it from an old Sig-aholic, Glock's are here to stay.
The bottom line is, "the user must keep his/her finger
off the trigger, until the proper target has been acquired"; which is true of ANY handgun. In conclusion,
I recently changed my primary CCW from my beloved Sig's, to
my .40S&W caliber Glock 27. I do not feel that my safety has
been compromised at all.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.

PS: My choice of leather for the G-27 is a belt-slide, thumb
break made by Galco. It covers the trigger guard; a most important feature.

[Mal H]

Everyone, listen up!

The majority of you have been in disagreement with the creator of this thread. That's fine. Disagreement is just as acceptable as agreement. Disagreement in no uncertain terms, loud disagreement, fervent disagreement - all acceptable. However, all of you know how we feel about member bashing and ad hominem arguments. Calling any member a "moron", an "idiot", etc., will not be tolerated. Capiche?

As you were.

[J. Parker]

I agree with RWK on most Glock attributes. They are quality pistols, reliable, COMBAT accurate, durable, SOMEWHAT well designed, and well manufactured (except for their mags). They are no better or worse than any other quality pistol on the market today. The Glock line of pistols have their own unique "manual of arms". If you like it, can accept it, then fine, you'll have a pistol that will serve you well. But as a previous owner of three Glock's, please don't try to tell me that Glock's are for everybody....NON-Glock owners are not idiots....we just don't care for it's unique "manual of arms". Best Regards, J. Parker

[dvc]

I have owned and carried Glock handguns since they first became available in the US. Hundreds of thousands of rounds have been fired, and the same amount of presentations have been made to and from my inside the waistband holster.

I have not had an accidental discharge, nor have I had a negligent discharge. I have not had a malfunction of any kind. Nor have I ever experienced a 'kaboom'.

I suppose this is due to the fact that I have more brain matter than your garden variety 'police officer' or the ever present 'armchair commandos' that seem to frequent these online gun related discussion sites.

I know to keep my finger of the trigger until I am ready to shoot. It is a simple rule to follow, unless you're dim-witted.

And that's what the gist of this thread is all about. If you are dim-witted, Glock handguns aren't for you.




This is for Tamara:

Glock's new slogan, "Glock. Handguns for smart people." (tm)

*high fives Tamara*

[Edited by dvc on 01-25-2001 at 10:56 AM]

[Snubnose]

[Socially unredeeming personal attack edited by Staff]

[Edited by Rich Lucibella on 01-25-2001 at 01:16 PM]

[HMIB]

So why the civilian and police loyalty to such a seemingly flawed, unpredictable, and embattled sidearm?

Because it works, and works well. On another note I saw many accidental discharges while in the military. Does that mean the M-9 or M-16 are unsafe. No, it means the operators needed better training or that perhaps those people were not concientious enough that they should be handling firearms, with or without an external safety. I suspect the cause of the AD's you sited had a lot more to do with the operator than the glock. As for the "second-rate quality" of Glocks I think the absurdity of that statement is so rediculous as to be amusing.

Congratulations Weasel it takes an awful lot for me to actually write a post.

[Matrixwolf]

Mal H
You are right and I apologize to all for resorting to name calling. I should have been above that no matter how ignorant the post was and how strongly I dissagree. I went back and removed the comment from my first post.

[Mal H]

Snubnose

Since you choose to not publish your email address, I will say this publicly. Apparently you either missed my warning or you are choosing to ignore it. I strongly suggest that you edit your reply. (3 posts above yours)

Matrixwolf - thank you.

[Phillip]

Way to go Glockers. That's taking the high road for you

[LawDog]

I neither like, nor dislike, the Glock series.

I do note, however, that every popular pistol has been accused of accidental discharges. Anyone else here heard of the infamous ".45 butt"? Seems enough people shot themselves in the tuckuss while holstering the Government Model 1911A1, that the condition developed a name.

"Racing stripes" were here before Gaston Glock started getting goofy ideas while cleaning his wife's Tupperware. Seems a bunch of detectives in California during the 1970's were perforating the old love handles while holstering their snub revolvers in vertical shoulder holsters.

"Castration carry" may have been amusing, but there was more than a grain of truth in it, and I heard the term waaa-aaay before Glock hit the US.

Do there seem to be more "accidental"(negligent) discharges with the Plastic Fantastic? Well, yes, but there seems to be a lot more Glocks in service than other weapons.

I'm sure that if the revolver were to be as popular and widespread as the Glock, people would be saying the same thing about those weapons.

On a business note: Keep. It. Civil.

LawDog