April 10, 2022, 09:41 PM | #1 |
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Birthday Gift Handgun
I live in Florida.
I wish to purchase a handgun and gift it to my daughter for her birthday. We have enjoyed quite a few days at the range. She is over 21 and qualifies to own a firearm. Is this OK. Thanks |
April 10, 2022, 09:49 PM | #2 |
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Where is she?
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April 11, 2022, 07:59 AM | #3 |
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Call your local FFL. The can (should be able to) guide you through the transfer process.
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April 11, 2022, 09:15 AM | #4 | |
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Quote:
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April 11, 2022, 05:39 PM | #5 |
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She is also in Florida.
Thanks. |
April 11, 2022, 05:58 PM | #6 | ||
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When you purchase the gun, you ARE the purchaser, so when you fill out the 4473 you would check "Yes" for question 21.a, that asks if you are the actual purchaser. The instructions for question 21.a state the following: Quote:
However, this site says that Orange County has a law that requires all transfers between individuals to go through a licensed firearms dealer. If one county has such a law, others may also have such a law. You may need to do some homework. If you are buying the gun for your daughter, the FFL you buy it from may be able to advise you. Just don't commit a technical straw purchase. If you take your daughter to a gun shop and let her pick out a gun, then YOU pay for it while she fills out the 4473 ... she is technically not the actual purchaser, since you are paying for it. However, if you hand her $500 or $1,000 in cash before you walk into the store, then it's her money and there's no problem filling out the 4473. Yes, I know that's a bit silly, but that's what is.
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April 11, 2022, 06:59 PM | #7 |
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Federal law allows for you purchasing a gun and then later gifting to anyone you wish, provided they are legal to own it. "Later" can be 10 minutes or ten years, up to you when you give your property as a gift.
Federal law also allows you to purchase a gun AS A GIFT. Some of the form's questions may have to be answered differently, but I know it is allowed. Fed, State/county laws will have to be followed when you gift the firearm, and can be different. Again, as AB points out, the dealer you are buying from should be able to walk you through all this. If they can't, or won't, find another dealer.
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April 11, 2022, 08:57 PM | #8 |
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Pick the gun, find an FFL local to her that has it, pay for gun as a gift for your daughter, have FFL call daughter to come fill out paperwork, do background check, and take gun home.
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The answer to 1984 is 1776 |
April 11, 2022, 09:09 PM | #9 |
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Thanks,
I am clear on this now. What concerned me was, several years ago my neighbors wife wanted to Buy a rifle for her husband for Christmas. The gun shop clerk told her she could not do that as it would be a straw purchase. It was a surprise purchased by her and put under the Christmas tree until Christmas. She ended up doing it anyway but was nervous about it. Her Husband was an army infantry officer. |
April 11, 2022, 10:41 PM | #10 | ||
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Crankylove, the way I understand it what you have proposed is a straw purchase. How is Jim's daughter supposed to answer question 21.a on the 4473? The gun would already have been paid for, so she canNOT honestly answer "Yes" to the question, "Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form and any continuation sheet(s)?" The instructions for answering this question are as follow: Quote:
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April 13, 2022, 12:00 AM | #11 |
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Gift the cash to your daught so that she can use it to buy the gun. If money as gift is too awkward, buy a gift card from the store and gift it to the daughter.
-TL Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk |
April 13, 2022, 07:55 PM | #12 | |
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I know of at least two occasions that firearms have been transferred in this exact manner, through ffls. Bought as a gift, ordered online, paid for by the gift giver, held at the FFL local to the receiver (in a different state) , receiving party picks up at FFL after 4473 and background check. How would this be any different than purchasing a firearm, then taking the daughter and firearm to an FFL to do a transfer? She didn’t pay for the gun, but still has to fill out paperwork, right? And that would be a legal transfer, right? Even though she didn’t purchase the firearm, but is the transferee. I’m not a lawyer, my advice/opinions may or may not be correct, just stating what I’ve seen in the past.
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The answer to 1984 is 1776 Last edited by Crankylove; April 13, 2022 at 08:02 PM. |
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April 13, 2022, 10:25 PM | #13 | |||
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Quote:
In an earlier post I quoted the instructions for question 21.a of the 4473. Once again, the first part reads: Quote:
The BATFE discussed straw purchases in a recent newsletter: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ne...-2021/download Quote:
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April 13, 2022, 10:48 PM | #14 |
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Aguila Blanca, Appreciate the info.
Hope I didn’t come off as trying to be argumentative, just trying to makes sense of these unnecessarily complex, and impossible to understand laws and rules, that seem to change on a daily basis.
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The answer to 1984 is 1776 |
April 14, 2022, 05:06 AM | #15 |
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Just make a reservation for dinner in one of the free counties. Give her the gift at dinner and you will be fine. I believe Orange County enacted that ordnance (it's not a law) to stop face to face sales at the gun show that takes place out at the fairgrounds.
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April 14, 2022, 05:32 AM | #16 | ||
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Quote:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/ordinance Quote:
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April 14, 2022, 10:08 AM | #17 |
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I have done exactly what the OP is contemplating. A few years ago, I purchased a new G26 at a local business with my money and in my name. In my state, private party sales or exchanges do not require going through an FFL. At the time, she was a legal resident of my state. So, on her birthday all I really needed to do was to give her the firearm as a gift. However, just to have a paper trail (such as in the case of theft or loss from her and any subsequent investigation related to illegal use of the firearm, etc), I typed up a simple bill of sale, accepted a $1 sale price, we each signed our name, and we each kept a copy for our records.
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April 14, 2022, 03:46 PM | #18 |
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This is what I intend to do.Except substitute the dollar for gift. Paperwork will be dated on her birthday.
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April 15, 2022, 12:46 AM | #19 | |
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Quote:
Question 21.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, a person is the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn, retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.If you had just bought it and given it to her, you would have been fine. As it stands, by officially turning it into a sale and accepting money, by the letter of the law, you committed a straw purchase. Folks, this is VERY simple. If you want to buy a firearm as a gift, that is perfectly legal as long as the person is a resident of your state and is not a prohibited person. But a gift is a GIFT. Don't complicate things. Buy it and GIVE it to the person. Don't turn it into a sale by accepting goods or services or money in trade, don't try to get cute at the gun store by having one person fill out the form and someone else pay the money. If you can't stand the idea of filling out the form and then giving it to the person, then give them the money as a gift and let them do what they want with the money (which could include buying a gun if they so choose). But if you do that, do the gift at home--don't be playing around with handing over money at the gun store. The FFL is not going to allow the sale if things start to look hinky. Another option if it's critical to you that there be some kind of paper trail to the recipient is to buy the gun yourself and fill out the 4473 as the actual buyer. Then, when you give it as a gift, go to an FFL, pay them to do a transfer to the recipient and then have the recipient fill out the form to accept the transfer. To make sure there's absolutely no misunderstanding, do NOT accept any money from the recipient.
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April 15, 2022, 04:20 PM | #20 |
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Face to Face transfers in Minnesota
A while back there was proposed legislation that would require sellers in a face-to-face transaction to keep a bill of sale or some form of documentation of who they sold their firearm to and to be able to produce that paperwork under the penalty of law.
One legislator pointed out there was no time limit on how long you had to keep this paperwork. When there was no response to his question of how long folk were expected to keep the paperwork he asked all the members who were legally married to come back the next day with their marriage licenses. |
April 15, 2022, 09:38 PM | #21 |
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I can't say about other states but gifts of guns to immediate family members are excluded from the restrictions of personal sales.
From what I've seen the lack of support for this law (here in OR) has been so low, that it's almost like it doesn't exist. From what I recall, 3 county sheriffs refused to enforce it... Tony |
April 17, 2022, 02:15 PM | #22 | |
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Under federal law, there is no such family exemption. If you want to gift, sell, trade, buy, barter or any any way transfer possession of a firearm to an immediate family member who is not a resident of your state you have to transfer via a licensed dealer. It's been that way since 1968.
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April 23, 2024, 09:46 AM | #23 |
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When it comes to birthday gifts, a handgun is a unique choice. It depends on the person and their interests. If they're into shooting sports or self-defense, it could be a thoughtful gift. However, safety should always be the top priority, so make sure they're trained and responsible. I believe gifts should reflect the recipient's interests and needs. For example, I once received a gift that seemed random at first – a cooking class voucher. But it ended up being one of the best gifts ever, as I discovered a new passion and skill that I continue to enjoy.
So, before choosing a gift like a handgun, consider the person's life experiences and preferences. It's all about creating memorable and meaningful experiences! Last edited by JohnKSa; April 25, 2024 at 12:34 AM. Reason: . |
April 23, 2024, 03:07 PM | #24 |
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"Article II. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
and you can only have up to this caliber, this size magazine, you can't buy or sell those that you can have, and they can only function the way we say. sure seem like infringements to me. but what do i know.
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April 23, 2024, 03:27 PM | #25 | |
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Just give her the money as a gift and let her buy the gun. Why make things complicated? |
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