Would you Open Carry if you could?

[45Gunner]

Lots of previous discussion on this before but it seems very timely given the incident that seems to have centered about Starbucks.

From my point of view, I see no advantage to open carry and as a matter of fact, I see it as a major tactical disadvantage when things go south in a hurry.

For example, assume you are in an establishment while carrying open and the establishment is about to be robbed by armed bandits. The first thing they will probably do is take out any threat to themselves which would be either taking your gun or worse, shooting you. There is no way, regardless of how fast a draw you are, that you are going to outdraw a gun that is already pointed at you. Given the same scenario and you conceal carry, there is a chance you might get a break and get your gun out, or more sensibly, just let it play out and retain your gun and your life. The only reason to try to go for your gun would be that you, or others, are in clear and present danger of losing your life (lives).

In today's world, locks on doors are to keep honest people honest. When it comes to guns, it may deter the two-bit street punk from trying to mug you but what if a small group (gang) decided they liked the looks of your gun? They could very easily and non-chalauntly walk next to you, grab you, and make off with your open carry gun. With your gun concealed, that invitation is not presented.

What do you feel are the pros and cons of open carry?

[Brian Pfleuger]

I doubt that I would open carry, certainly not often anyway. What I would do, however, is be a lot less concerned about accidently exposing my gun. It really could make the whole carry business a lot easier, opening up entire new clothing and holster options. That's why I wish that open carry were legal.

As for the scenario that you've outlined, that wouldn't be high on my worry list. Some people, it might, and that's fine. Me, I don't put a roll cage in my car either, and I'm more likely to need that than I am to face a strong arm robbery at IHOP with my carry gun exposed.

[Doc Intrepid]

+1

There are no tactical benefits. It isn't intimidating to armed badguys, and it can be an invitation to badguys who want your gun.

There may be some political benefit in terms of the argument that "a right not exercised...", but as posted elsewhere, it strikes me as a uniquely dumb way to accomplish your objectives because it antagonizes or makes uneasy even potential allies.

It is unnecessarily provocative, and can make even firearm supporters wary of your intentions. IMO there are more effective ways to assert your rights...and to present to the rest of society an argument that is both compelling and pursuasive.

YMMV.

[BamaBowtie]

If florida allowed open carry I would on occasion do it. There are states that allow it and it is widely practiced. I don't recall hearing tale of gangs taking openly carried guns from anyone or people being targeted by robbers. For the most part those people are pretty much affraid of their own shadow and they sure as hell ain't gonna mess with someone with a gun on their hip. With that stated I would not OC in a large city, I live in a small rural town just north of Panama City Beach and it wouldn't raise an eyebrow if I walked into the local store today with a gun on. But I wouldn't go into PCB with one open because I don't want the hassle from the cops when the uptight soccer mom calls them because she's scared I'm gonna get ****** when McD's messes up my order go on a killing spree!

[TailGator]

OC is not legal for me in Florida, but I can't say I miss it. I personally think being discrete is better both tactically and socially, so I would still CC even if OC was legal.

At the same time, I realize that such was my decision, and that others may have valid reasons to make a different decision that is better for them.

[Wagonman]

Like I have opined in prior threads, I would not open carry unless I am on the clock. To responsibly open carry you need to be in orange at all times. To say nothing of the theft threat..


Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a beautiful western rig like I have drooled over online.

[Wildalaska]

What Doc Intrepid said

WildasihavesaidebeforeAlaska ™

[milky7272]

I open carry here in North Carolina. Always when going hunting or to ride 4 wheelers, or if I have been out working on my land. I dont really get any strange looks at stores , such as gas stations and such. I also think there is a big difference in the area you live in. My area is mostly farm land. On the other hand if I were to go 30 minutes west and head into the city of Charlotte, no way would I open carry. It just isnt going to happen

[CWPinSC]

From my point of view, I see no advantage to open carry and as a matter of fact, I see it as a major tactical disadvantage when things go south in a hurry.

I would OC if SC allowed it. It's much easier to dress and choose holsters. More comfortable, too.

There are tactical advantages AND disadvantages. True, a BG might walk in, see you as a threat, and try to take you out first. However, he might also see your weapon and decide a few dollars isn't worth a gunfight with an armed, determined citizen. Remember, criminals like it easy. Carrying your gun openly tells them it ain't gonna be easy. I believe concealed carry is a defense while open carry may be a deterrent. True, a group of perps may decide they like your gun, but are they willing to die to attempt to take it? Most are not.

As with any type of carry, situational awareness is MANDATORY. If you recognize the threat before it acts, you're one step ahead.

[OldMarksman]

I agree with Peetzakilla and with Doc Intrepid, and therefore with Wildalaska, except that I can see one tactical benefit: if one is heading across a largely empty parking lot with a gun on his hip, that gun may dissuade someone from approaching him without having the situation escalate.

However, I would prefer laws under which one might move his or her jacket aside without fear of being accused of brandishing ("exhibiting in a threatening manner" where I live) or assault.

[Skans]

I doubt it, but it depends. If its common for everyone to open carry, then I'd have no problem with it. If I'm the only one walking around displaying my firearm, then I might feel like the guy who showed up for a hunting trip wearing red spandex pants, silk button down shirt and a bowtie.

I would never open carry or conceal carry an unloaded gun! I might as well paste a bunch of $100 bills on my ass and scream "come and get it".

[Doc Intrepid]

Originally Posted by Skans

"I would never open carry or conceal carry an unloaded gun! I might as well paste a bunch of $100 bills on my ass and scream "come and get it"."

You owe me a keyboard...

I just spit coffee all over the one I have now laughing at your post!!

[pax]

I live in a state where open carry is legal. I live in a rural county. And I very, very occasionally fail to conceal on the 2-mile drive home from the range.

I do not open carry otherwise, because I see few benefits and many risks, and because I do not care to spend all of my errand time soothing the fears of strangers.

However:

There are no tactical benefits. It isn't intimidating to armed badguys...

A link: http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlan...ry-in-Kennesaw

Read the story. It does happen. Sometimes.

Meanwhile, I still believe that anyone who open carries, whether regularly or just occasionally, whether to make a statement or simply out of convenience, really should

• wear a holster designed for passive retention (level 2 or above), AND
• take a firearms-retention class from a competent instructor, AND
• regularly practice those retention skills with equally-trained friends.

If you're not doing at least that much, you probably should conceal the firearm until you can.

pax

[Straightshooter629]

I suppose that there are certain circumstances where OC would be best, but from a self-defense standpoint, I belive that CC offers the best tatical advantage. I make to claim to be an authority, just giving MHO.

[ohen cepel]

I would open carry in some remote areas where people expect it more. Don't see me doing it in many populated areas.

[NavyLT]

I prefer to believe the experts rather than speculation which has never proven to be true in reality:

Armed and Considered Dangerous: A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms
~ Peter H. Rossi (Author), James Wright (Author)

Interviewing felony prisoners in ten state correctional systems in 1981, Wright and Rossi found extensive information suggesting that gun control laws have relatively little effect on violent criminals. Fifty-six percent of the prisoners said that a criminal would not attack a potential victim who was known to be armed. Seventy-four percent agreed with the statement that "One reason burglars avoid houses where people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime." Thirty-nine percent of the felons had personally decided not to commit a crime because they thought the victim might have a gun, and eight percent said the experience had occurred "many times."

It is the majority of the felons themselves that say it just isn't worth it to attack a target known to be armed. I'll go with the statistics and expert opinion and let those potential criminals know that I am armed and it is just plain easier for them to wait 2 minutes or go down the street one block and have their pick of many, many other targets that do not appear to be armed. Concealed carry has no deterrent value, and I would rather deter a crime vice defend myself against a crime in progress.

[dabigguns357]

NO,not even when going to the range.I keep at least 1 extra gun concealed on my hip.

[goodspeed(TPF)]

In WI it is ILLEGAL to CC. The only LEGAL way to carry your weapon is to OPEN CARRY it. So iffin you lives in WI there you go.

[OldMarksman]

I prefer to believe the experts rather than speculation which has never proven to be true in reality

Just how does one go about proving a negative?

[NavyLT]

For example, assume you are in an establishment while carrying open and the establishment is about to be robbed by armed bandits. The first thing they will probably do is take out any threat to themselves which would be either taking your gun or worse, shooting you. There is no way, regardless of how fast a draw you are, that you are going to outdraw a gun that is already pointed at you. Given the same scenario and you conceal carry, there is a chance you might get a break and get your gun out, or more sensibly, just let it play out and retain your gun and your life. The only reason to try to go for your gun would be that you, or others, are in clear and present danger of losing your life (lives).

The above has no proof in reality. It is pure speculation.

Interviewing felony prisoners in ten state correctional systems in 1981, Wright and Rossi found extensive information suggesting that gun control laws have relatively little effect on violent criminals. Fifty-six percent of the prisoners said that a criminal would not attack a potential victim who was known to be armed. Seventy-four percent agreed with the statement that "One reason burglars avoid houses where people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime." Thirty-nine percent of the felons had personally decided not to commit a crime because they thought the victim might have a gun, and eight percent said the experience had occurred "many times."

This has more proof in reality in that it was the felons themselves saying that they would not attack a visibly armed target nor burgle an occupied house for fear of being shot.

In addition, the deterrent value of open carry has been proven, at least once, in reality:
http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atlan...ry-in-Kennesaw

[Doc Intrepid]

Pax,

I stand corrected. I used imprecise language.

Clearly there are occasions where open carry may deter crimes, especially if the crimes consist of a shake-down or armed robbery.

My intention was to note that if someone intends to target you specifically - to walk up behind you and shoot you in the back of the head, say, or to walk up to you as you sit at a table in a restaurant and suddenly shoot you in the head - they are unlikely to be deterred by the fact that you are carrying a handgun. Their entire game plan would be an ambush: an sudden attack from the flank or rear such that you'd have little time to see it coming or respond.

In a case such as this one on February 26 the victim was shot from ambush and it is doubtful that even if the victim had a firearm they would have been able to deploy it in time: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587491,00.html

(Even given the circumstances in the newslink you posted, had the robbers been more viscious - e.g. sent two men into the restaurant who suddenly pointed guns at the civilians, and took their guns away (or shot them), the outcome may have been different. While speculative, it was clear to the criminals which civilians posed the threat. It sounds as if in this case the criminals were seeking to avoid a shootout at the Wafflehouse!)

I'll be more careful to avoid making universal statements in the future. OC may indeed deter a certain percentage of crimes, particularly those that are not intended to be assassinations.

It's still my opinion that nearly anyone may be ambushed suddenly by surprise, though, whether they're open carrying a pistol or not. They can either be shot regardless, if that is the attacker's intention, or else they can be caught at gunpoint and have their pistol stolen from them.

Thanks for letting me clarify my earlier incorrect assertion.

Doc

[pax]

Thanks for letting me clarify my earlier incorrect assertion.

Doc ~

Bless you!

pax

Any man worth his salt will stick up for what he believes right, but it takes a slightly better man to acknowledge instantly and without reservation that he is in error. -- General Peyton C. March

[Water-Man]

Most of the arguments against open carry would go away if more people were doing so.

[FreakGasolineFight]

In my fantasy land where most people OC and it's considered a perfectly normal occurrence--indeed, where someone OC'ing is the mark of a good citizen who is willing to take his safety and the safety of those around him into his own hands, there I would OC. In the real world, where OC'ing makes you a target for skittish glances, people walking in wide circles around you, and uninformed police officers harassing you, not a chance.

[OldMarksman]

Fifty-six percent of the prisoners said that a criminal would not attack a potential victim who was known to be armed.

OK, do we conclude that forty-four percent of the prisoners said that a criminal would attack a potential victim who was known to be armed, or is it a lesser number?

Whatever the number, why would someone do it? Confidence in one's ability to ambush? To get the weapon? Desperation?

Of course open carry has some deterrent value; common sense says so. It also carries with it some risk; common sense says so.

Common sense tells me that a mugger would almost always choose as a victim someone other than a person carrying a gun openly...unless what he badly needs is a weapon.

Common sense talls me that a thief who sees someone who has been open carrying walk into a post office will have a pretty good idea of what is probably in that person's car, there for the taking.

Common sense tells me that someone going into a quick shop to hold it up will at least wait, if not go somewhere else, if he sees someone go in ahead of him with a weapon on his hip.

Common sense tells me that if a holdup is already in progress and a man walks in armed and is noticed, the robbers' survival instinct will result in his being shot immediately.

There are "tactical" plusses and minuses; where I live there is also a tremendous anti-gun sentiment, and even the mention of someone carrying concealed fans the flames.

The survey was made in 1981. Concealed carry was a rare thing then. There are too many variables to draw any firm conclusions from statistics, but law enforcement friends tell me that the legalization of concealed carry has deterred some types of crime here.

A little over a century ago, open carry was lawful in many places in this country. About that time, laws began to be enacted banning the practice, even in Texas. It woul be interesting to know what caused that push--I would not like to see it happen again.