Glock Accidental/Negligent Discharge Record - Page 8

juliet charley · December 1, 2002, 05:31 PM

Quote:

"Double-action" implies two fire-control options; "only" infers one. Sort of like a three-wheeled bicycle. Not happenin' in the real world.

No, double action means the pulling the trigger does the double action of (1) compressing the striker spring (or main spring) and (2) releasing the striker (or hammer). Only means there is no provision for firing it in a single action mode (i.e., pulling the trigger performs only the single action of releasing the striker or hammer).

blooch · December 1, 2002, 05:48 PM

recently worked a shooting through my local vfd, accidental / negligent discharge of a 357 sig, in a glock. seems it was not his first. some people never learn to keep the finger off the trigger.

MasterBlaster · December 1, 2002, 07:26 PM

This DA/SA debate is silly. But you have to keep in mind that definitions may change over time as technology changes.

Many gun manufactures today describe their weapons as DA/SA. That is, double-action on the first shot (with the hammer up) characterized by a long, heavy trigger pull that cocks and then releases the hammer, and single-action for the remaining rounds in the mag (when the hammer has been cocked by the slide cycle) and characterized by a shorter, lighter trigger pull that simply releases the hammer. Hence, DA/SA action.

Along similar lines, DAO means that the hammer returns to the uncocked position after each shot. In that sense, the Glock would technically qualify as a DAO though it lacks the heavy trigger pull (and hammer) characteristic of most DAO handguns.

Interestingly, I think Springfield markets the XD as DAO, though many have stated here that its trigger does not cock but only releases its firing pin. I guess they're referring to trigger pull weight. Maybe SA sounded too dangerous!

I think we're stuck with the terminology that gun makers adopt for themselves. Who's going to tell them they're wrong?

Besides, it won't do any good. Sometimes it's better to go with the flow instead of trying to swim upstream.

Jimmy Mac · December 1, 2002, 07:57 PM

Springfield markets the XD as a single action.

On another thread people tried to claim the Steyr M-40 was a double action pistol.

The people claimed that striker was cocked 4mm. The trigger pull moves the striker back another 1mm and releases it. According to their logic the 1mm travel from pulling the trigger makes it a DAO.

Since the Glock is around 1/4 cocked and the trigger pulls it the rest of the way to the rear and releases it it also has to be a DAO.

**JohnKSa** · December 1, 2002, 08:16 PM

Quote:

(And guys, look again, the Glock is not a revolver--it does work differently.)

Yes, and specifically, its trigger works differently from a double-action revolver's trigger, which the biggest clue that it's obviously not double-action.

Quote:

The fact that the Glock has to set the striker does not change the essential fact that pulling trigger performs the double action of compressing the striker spring and releasing the striker.

No... but it does mean that the Glock trigger isn't double-action. How did you get this confused--don't you have any revolvers so you can see for yourself what double-action is?

juliet charley · December 1, 2002, 08:31 PM

John, John, there are DA revolvers, and there are double action automatics (or autoloaders or pistols, or whatever you chose to call them). The term DA is not limited to revolvers. You are on the road to ridiculous.

**JohnKSa** · December 1, 2002, 08:37 PM

Quote:

there are DA revolvers, and there are double action automatics (or autoloaders or pistols, or whatever you chose to call them). The term DA is not limited to revolvers.

So, what you're saying is that the term means different things when applied to different guns?

And YOU'RE the one who decides what the differences are, right?

BTW, how come your name never appears in the "Users Browsing This Forum List"? Even when you're obviously on here posting? Just curious...

Jimmy Mac · December 1, 2002, 08:58 PM

I really can't belive that so many people can not understand the very simple consept of double action.

You do not have to have the IQ of Albert Einstein to understand it.

I am sure any 5 year old can be taught the difference between SA and DA.

**JohnKSa** · December 1, 2002, 09:21 PM

Quote:

I am sure any 5 year old can be taught the difference between SA and DA.

I thought it was simple too, but after reading through this thread, I can see that it's not for some...

Hkmp5sd · December 1, 2002, 09:51 PM

Someone roll the horse over so the other side can get bea...err..tenderized a little.

**Mal H** · December 1, 2002, 10:48 PM

Nah. Let's keep it going. I'm curious to see how many different ways the participants here (and in that other thread) can say the exact same thing. So far we're up to three in a combined total of 10 pages!

Besides, Rich has lots of extra disk space available. Nothing wrong with filling it to the brim with Glock action type discussions.

Handy · December 1, 2002, 11:51 PM

You guys are making up your own definitions.

Someone find a manual from the 1880's (or whatever) that coins the phrase "DA" and use that definition. I haven't seen one quoted source yet.

Until then, I'd recommend shutting up.

**Mal H** · December 1, 2002, 11:55 PM

Ok, that's long enough.

I closed the other Glock thread a few seconds ago. After consulting with my fellow moderators, we decided to close this one down also. So, like so many posters here, I think I'll say the exact same thing here that I said in that thread. Fitting don't you think?

This has gone on long enough. Nay, far too long. How many different ways can folks argue about a particular gun models action and never come to a conclusion?

Without wasting any more time on this and with my fellow moderators blessings, I shall close this one.

To paraphrase Indiana Jones: "Glocks! Why does it always have to be Glocks?"

December 1, 2002, 07:26 PM	#178
MasterBlaster Member Join Date: February 8, 2002 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 77	This DA/SA debate is silly. But you have to keep in mind that definitions may change over time as technology changes. Many gun manufactures today describe their weapons as DA/SA. That is, double-action on the first shot (with the hammer up) characterized by a long, heavy trigger pull that cocks and then releases the hammer, and single-action for the remaining rounds in the mag (when the hammer has been cocked by the slide cycle) and characterized by a shorter, lighter trigger pull that simply releases the hammer. Hence, DA/SA action. Along similar lines, DAO means that the hammer returns to the uncocked position after each shot. In that sense, the Glock would technically qualify as a DAO though it lacks the heavy trigger pull (and hammer) characteristic of most DAO handguns. Interestingly, I think Springfield markets the XD as DAO, though many have stated here that its trigger does not cock but only releases its firing pin. I guess they're referring to trigger pull weight. Maybe SA sounded too dangerous! I think we're stuck with the terminology that gun makers adopt for themselves. Who's going to tell them they're wrong? Besides, it won't do any good. Sometimes it's better to go with the flow instead of trying to swim upstream. __________________ Today, the Remington MasterBlaster represents the culmination of over 50 years of engineering refinements and technological innovation. http://www.remington.com/ammo/industrial/industrial.htm "You just shot an unarmed man!" "Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his front porch with my best friend." - Unforgiven

December 1, 2002, 09:51 PM	#185
Hkmp5sd Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Winter Haven, Florida Posts: 4,303	Someone roll the horse over so the other side can get bea...err..tenderized a little. __________________ NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Safety, Personal Protection, Range Safety Officer NRA Life Member

December 1, 2002, 05:48 PM	#177
blooch Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 1999 Location: texas Posts: 152	recently worked a shooting through my local vfd, accidental / negligent discharge of a 357 sig, in a glock. seems it was not his first. some people never learn to keep the finger off the trigger.

December 1, 2002, 07:57 PM	#179
Jimmy Mac Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Posts: 688	Springfield markets the XD as a single action. On another thread people tried to claim the Steyr M-40 was a double action pistol. The people claimed that striker was cocked 4mm. The trigger pull moves the striker back another 1mm and releases it. According to their logic the 1mm travel from pulling the trigger makes it a DAO. Since the Glock is around 1/4 cocked and the trigger pulls it the rest of the way to the rear and releases it it also has to be a DAO.

December 1, 2002, 08:31 PM	#181
juliet charley Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Posts: 2,501	John, John, there are DA revolvers, and there are double action automatics (or autoloaders or pistols, or whatever you chose to call them). The term DA is not limited to revolvers. You are on the road to ridiculous.

December 1, 2002, 08:58 PM	#183
Jimmy Mac Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Posts: 688	I really can't belive that so many people can not understand the very simple consept of double action. You do not have to have the IQ of Albert Einstein to understand it. I am sure any 5 year old can be taught the difference between SA and DA.

December 1, 2002, 10:48 PM	#186
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,956	Nah. Let's keep it going. I'm curious to see how many different ways the participants here (and in that other thread) can say the exact same thing. So far we're up to three in a combined total of 10 pages! Besides, Rich has lots of extra disk space available. Nothing wrong with filling it to the brim with Glock action type discussions.

December 1, 2002, 11:51 PM	#187
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	You guys are making up your own definitions. Someone find a manual from the 1880's (or whatever) that coins the phrase "DA" and use that definition. I haven't seen one quoted source yet. Until then, I'd recommend shutting up.

December 1, 2002, 11:55 PM	#188
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,956	Ok, that's long enough. I closed the other Glock thread a few seconds ago. After consulting with my fellow moderators, we decided to close this one down also. So, like so many posters here, I think I'll say the exact same thing here that I said in that thread. Fitting don't you think? This has gone on long enough. Nay, far too long. How many different ways can folks argue about a particular gun models action and never come to a conclusion? Without wasting any more time on this and with my fellow moderators blessings, I shall close this one. To paraphrase Indiana Jones: "Glocks! Why does it always have to be Glocks?"