looking to buy a single action .357

[hoytinak]

Looking to buy a single action .357 in the near future just for fun. The only revolver's I currently own are both Ruger SP101's (.357 & .22lr) so naturally I'm looking at the New Blackhawks, but am open to others. Wanting a 4 1/2-6 inch barrel, stainless. It will only be used for range shooting, paper, steel plates and mostly .38's. Anything I need to be aware of when looking a single actions? What are some good one's to look into? Any other info. would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

[Socrates]

check www.gunblast.com for a review on the new Rugers. In .357, they actually look like they got it right.

Dr. S
PS
I'd also look around for a BFR, if they make them in that caliber.

[BlkHawk73]

I'd recommend th Ruger also. Nearly indestructable.

[Wheel-Gunner]

Ya'know, I have a Taurus Gaucho and it has been flawless. It has withstanded a lot of punishment (I fan it consistantly) and is incredibly accurate. It will be cheaper than the ruger, and it is a SAA clone with the 4 "clicks."

At any rate, a Gaucho or Vaquero would be great buys!

[YosemiteSam357]

I've got an OM Vaquero and it's great. It'll handle any .357 load you throw at it, but will also shoot much less expensive .38s. Mine has the Bisley hammer and grip, which I prefer.

I liked it so much I ran right out and bought the .22 version so I could shoot even cheaper.

Now I own a .44 and a .45LC, too. The fun just never stops.

I know the New Model Vaqueros aren't quite as strong as the OM ones, and this is a concern with heavy .45LC loads. I don't know whether this is an issue with the .357 guns or not.

-- Sam

[Laz]

I have a blued 4 5/8 inch .357 Blackhawk which is the 50th Anniversary model built on the new smaller Vaquero-sized frame. I don't know if this is going to be a standard offering or just a special run but Davidson's still has plenty of them. Very nice gun and nice size for .357. Mine is quite accurate. If you want one, get it while it is still available. I also have a 5 1/2 inch stainless, unfluted Bisley (large frame) which was part of a run for Acusport. Great revolver. They are now hard to find, I believe. But, I also have a large-frame, stainless, Blackhawk with 6 1/2 inch barrel and it is the bee's knees. Just a wonderful revolver. All three are fine. I had gotten away from SAs and sold or traded away the ones I had before, so you can see mine are all recent vintage and all have adjustable sights. I have heard good things about the Taurus, and also about the Beretta Stampede. I think the next one I want is a Stampede Marshall with 3 1/2 inch barrel and bird's-head grip.

[RevolverLover]

I don't have any of the new model Ruger single actions but have quite a few of the old models. If the new ones are anything like the old ones then I will easily recommend those.

I'd also look around for a BFR, if they make them in that caliber.

No, they don't or else I probably would have gotten one a long time ago.

[Jim March]

The new mid-frame Rugers are spectacularly good guns with better average QC than their larger frame cousins. The New Vaquero in 357 and 50th Anniversary 357 Blackhawk are the same gun, just fixed sight or adjustable. They share all other parts, basically.

These new mid-frame cylinders are being drilled one bore at a time in sequence with the same drill bit in the same jig. The large-frame cylinders are bored six-at-once so we saw variances between bores that are no longer happening with the mid-frames.

I have it on reasonably good authority that the mid-frame barrel threads are the same as the large-frame. Some people are converting them to 41Mag via takeoff Blackhawk 41 barrels. So even if you start with the 50th 357 (which only comes with the 4.68" "gunfighter" barrel) you can swap to a longer tube. Or you could get a 5.5" barrel New Vaq in 357 and upgrade the sights.

I have a 4.68" barrel New Vaq in 357. It shot fine from day one, windage dead on, but I upgraded the sights anyways to add a better, dovetailed front and milled the rear fixed channel to match. This gives you a lower-profile sight than the Blackhawks but almost as good otherwise.



Note that I've swapped to an SBH hammer. The Ruger mid-frames are cross-compatible with a lot of large-frame parts: hammer, trigger, grip frame, quite a few "innards" and (so I've been told) barrels.

Ruger is not, unfortunately, selling the New Vaq 357 with the 7.5" tube. I wish they did; the New Vaq can throw down more power in 357 than it can in 45LC - thicker cylinder walls.

NO factory ammo in 357 is too strong for the New Vaq or mid-frame Blackhawk 357. NO factory is making "357+P" ammo. There are a few handload recipes around for "44magnum class" 357 guns and those could hurt a mid-frame. I strongly suggest looking at Buffalo Bore's sight and looking at what power is on tap in 357 - all those will fit the mid-frame 357 Ruger SAs:

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357

The Taurus Gaucho is similar to the New Vaq in that it's an "SAA class" gun with a transfer bar. While some are having good luck with them there have also been trouble reports. I've heard of fewer issues with the 3rd "transfer bar SAA" option, the Beretta Stampede - but with the parts swapping possibilities and US support of the Ruger, I don't see the point of the others.

[nutty ned]

Get a blackhawk .357 with a convertible 9 mm cylinder.

[YosemiteSam357]

Originally Posted by jimmarsh1

NO factory is making "357+P" ammo.

Do you not consider Miwall a factory?

It's sold as 160gr FMJSP +P+, 1400 fps, energy 696 ft lbs, and it's a lot of fun to shoot out of an OM Vaq.

-- Sam

[Jim March]

I wasn't aware of that load.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

First, net energy isn't much more than Buffalo Bore, and Tim Sundles claims to keep all his 357 peak pressures to SAAMI levels. He's very careful about his load development and so far his stuff isn't blowing up guns OR testing out at speeds below what he claims.

See also:
http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#357

Now, Tim charges more. Most of what you're paying for is good load engineering and good QC. Because when loads push the edge of the envelope, they need to be good.

This Miwall stuff is rated "+P+" for one of two reasons: either that's just marketing to get you all excited about big power, OR they don't have their peak pressures under control because they're using cheap powder and/or poor QC.

I hope it's the former, I fear it's the latter.

In any case, I dunno 'bout y'all but I don't shoot a whole lot of Godzilla class 357. I need only small amounts of this stuff so BuffBore pricing isn't that big a deal.

Remember: "+P+" is *supposed* to mean "this stuff ain't SAAMI". "+P" normally means "no more than 10% over SAAMI" except for the 45LC.

Ain't no way in hell I'd shoot that Miwall stuff in anything short of maybe a Freedom Arms large frame or a Redhawk 357...

[44 AMP]

Unless you have just got to have a more traditional SAA looking gun, the Blackhawk is the best you'll find short of a custom gun. And, if you like hitting what you aim at, the adjustable sights are a big plus.

Fixed sight guns are great, but remember they can only be counted on shooting one load to the sights. They may shoot more than one load to point of aim, but don't count on it. I had a SAA clone (Hawes) that was dead on accurate with 158gr .38 Special, but every .357 load was several inches off, even at close range!

I was unaware of the Miwall ammo (I have handloaded for decades, and rarely buy factory ammo), but since the original loading for the .357 Magnum was a 158gr @ 1550fps (8 & 3/8" barrel), how is a 160 @ 1400 considered +p+? SAAMI may have lowered their standards, but I never have.

Actually loads matching the original .357 performance ARE too hot for nearly all the handguns available today, and they are too hot for some of the rifles as well! Rugers are very strong guns in .45 and .44 cals, and I don't see the .357 being signifantly weaker (more steel, after all), but every gun is an individual, and what is still a safe pressure in my gun may be too much for yours, even if we had consecutive ser #'ed guns!

Only very careful methodical experimentation can determine if your gun will safely tolerate higher than standard factory loads, and while Ruger is great company for customer service (generally), you will be operating outside of warranty if you do this. Some pistol makes will drop you like a stinky sack if they even think you used anything other than factory ammo. Others are a lot more tolerant. Check a Ruger owner's manual to see where they set their liability for coverage.

Although I don't currently own a Ruger Blackhawk in .357, I have shot them, and I do have a pair in .45 Colt, and a Vaquero in .44 Magnum, (and a Single Six). They are great guns for the money, even with the recent increses in cost they are a sound value. And, since they are built like tanks, often the only thing wrong with a used Ruger SA is cosmetic, so if you don't mind, you can save a few dollars and still get a pretty sound gun.

And, Ruger is made in the US. To me that still counts for more than a little bit of $.

[Jim March]

Quoting:

I was unaware of the Miwall ammo (I have handloaded for decades, and rarely buy factory ammo), but since the original loading for the .357 Magnum was a 158gr @ 1550fps (8 & 3/8" barrel), how is a 160 @ 1400 considered +p+? SAAMI may have lowered their standards, but I never have.

Pressure has little to do with external ballistics. It's possible to brew up a really stupid load that has a short, VERY high pressure "spike" if you graph it out, but the net bullet energy stinks. In other words, the load sucks AND it can blow up your gun.

Blowups are cause by the peak energy levels. A well-designed load won't "peak" so high, but it'll do a solid push over a longer period of time. Doing this involves slower-burn powder charges with more volume of less-powerful powder, which costs more. I don't reload yet but as one ROUGH example, I would guesstimate that 7 grains of Unique might do as much power as 18 of H110, or something like that. Point is, the slow-burn recipe costs more and might require more development time if you're "pushing the edge" the way Buffalo Bore, Grizzly, Garrett and the like do.

Even better: once you have this sort of "long slow push" recipe, the way recoil "feels" is different versus a "pressure spike" load. The "broad push" recipe won't feel as "sharp" in the hand, yet you're pushing the same bullet at the same speed either way. It's easier to feel and get this effect when you run ammo with big case capacities...that's one reason I'd like to play with the 38/44Bain&Davis (44Mag case necked to 357 shot in a 357 with a funky-reamed cylinder).

Back to Miwall: my fear is that they're doing a stupid "spike load" with a small (read: low cost) amount of fast-burn high-pressure powder. It works, and it gives you the bullet energies stated, but at a major risk of blowing some guns up. I wouldn't touch this stuff with a 10ft cleaning rod.

[huchahuchax]

I have two .357 single action revolvers, a 6 inch Ruger Blackhawk and a 7 1/2 inch Taurus Gaucho.

The Blackhawk is not my first single action revolver, but it is the first one I shot alot with. I've never shot .38 rounds through it, always magnum loads and it functions flawlessly everytime. I've got twenty something handguns in my collection and the Blackhawk stands out as my favorite gun. I have it dressed up in black pearlite grips with silver skulls laser etched into them.

I bought the Gaucho because I was interested in non adjustable sights and the Colt clone design with the four click action sounded cool. I also wanted a Gaucho because you can get them with a 7 1/2 inch barrel, which I think looks awesome on a single action revolver. Mine is case hardened, and I have AJAX laminated redwood grips on it. It really is a beautiful gun to look at. Shooting it is a whole different story.
Before actually firing it I was amazed at how slick the action is. When you read the reviews about how it is custom tuned right out of the box, that is no joke. My first trip to the range with the gun I didn't put it through any torture tests, I just took one 100 round box of .357 Magnum Remington 125 gr. jacketed hollowpoints. The gun shot well, gave me tight groups and performed flawlessly. The only real problem was that the grips were so uncomfortable that by the end of the session I had a nickle sized blood blister on my palm. That is when I switched to the wood grips and they are much more comfortable. Anyway...
I took the gun home, cleaned it, then put it away until my new grips came in. The next time I went to the range, I took the exact same ammo, but this time I only got three shots off before the action locked up solid with the hammer cocked back over a loaded chamber. So much for the "custom" tune job. I had to sit there with the gun pointed down range while I yanked on the trigger until the hammer finally unlocked and scared the holy hell out of me. My Gaucho now has the distinct honor of being the only gun I've ever shot the ceiling with.
I can't stand sending a brand new gun back to the factory, so I went home and tore it apart myself. I didn't have to tear it down too far before I found a problem. The Taurus safety lock is located on the back side of the hammer. It is held in place by a pin and the pin is obstructed from view by the grip frame. When I took the grip frame off I found that the pin was all chewed up because it was wearing a groove into the grip frame. I pushed the pin back into place then locked it there with super glue (don't laugh, that pin is now the only part of the gun that is rock solid). I put the gun back together and took it to the range to test it out. I didn't even need to buy ammo 'cause I still had 97 rounds left. This time I made it down to the last six or seven rounds before the action locked up again - same as before with the hammer hovering over a live round. This time I held a folded up piece of paper between the hammer and firing pin then wiggled the trigger until the hammer broke loose. I took the gun home and ripped it apart again. I thought my superglue fix had failed, but that pin was still tightly held in place, so I had to tear the gun completely apart. I found all sorts of crap in the action of the gun. I'm thinking it is dried residue from the thread lock the factory used to secure all the screws in the grip frame. I put the gun back together, then let it sit for awhile. There is just something about a revolver that likes to leave you wondering when the hammer will fall. It does things to your nerves, man. I finally got around to testing the gun again, this time with .38 Special rounds...
And it worked fine.
I'm not going to say the Gaucho is a horrible gun, I'm just going to say that if you buy one you should make a commitment to get to know it real well because it can be...how should I put this?... quirky.

[FM12]

Get yourself a good Ruger s/a and go shooting! enjoy it, they are excellent guns!

[Jim March]

There are a LOT of reports of trouble with the Gaucho.

More than any other revolver type made today. Seriously.

Avoid. Bigtime. If you MUST have "Colt-ish feel including four clicks and loading on the half cock" plus a transfer bar, go with a Beretta Stampede. But if you're smarter than that, go Ruger.

[hoytinak]

Thanks for all the replys....I've dicided i'm going with the Stainless 6 1/2" barreled Blackhawk, while i'm at it i'm ordering a Single Six to go with it also.

[smokin54]

I have been shooting ruger single actions for 30+ years , I have been reloading for 25 Years . I Really like the ruger single actions and there are plenty of aftermarket items to do what you need/want to them . As with most factory guns some may need a little help to perform to their potential . You can send your ruger for custom work and get to top notch levels .but usually will do pretty good with what the average guy can do to it .
If price is not much of a issue then you need to be looking at Freedom arms , There is not better single action revolver made ,some belive that the statement is not limited to Single action ,It will need nothing once it comes from the factory . The custom smiths will take a ruger and do all their custom work trying to get to shoot as well as a FA at 1 1/2 times the cost . I own 2 FAs that I bought used . My next single action will be a 357 , I hope it to be a model 97