Looking for Suggestions

Oppy · October 29, 2007, 03:41 PM

I have limited handgun experience over the past 25 years, having shot a variety of mostly 9mm and plinking with my Ruger Mark II. It is time to step up and purchase a new one and I am looking for suggestions. Not a full time carry, so size to me is not critical. I have handled Mak, Bersa, and have read good things about the CZ line. I am not overly price sensitive, but looking for that fine line where quality and price meet

To limit this a bit, I am looking at between .380 and 9x19.

Any helpful tips and guidance would be most appreciated.

Qwiks draw · October 29, 2007, 07:52 PM

If money is an object then look no further than the CZ75BD or the Ruger P95s.
Thr RugerSR9 is just too new for consideration.

Have the Ruger P95s and have had excellent service from both.Older models too. Dureability and longevity are the bywords for these.Have short stubby fingers and hands. The Rugers fit where others didn't. So much for being too blocky.

The daughter,20 something,

is much taller(mom's side of the family)

and with the much longer fingers went with the CZ series. Really nice guns.

Last but not least there are the Taurus 92 or 911 series.

If used to DA/SA triggers these are all nice ones to consider.

If used to DAO triggers then the Taurus 24/7 series is one to look at.These are labled SA/DA, but are kin of the DAO trigger type.

Daughter has the CZ75 and the CZ85. Excellent shooters both as far as guns go.

This is all just gee whiz recommendations because what fits us may not very well fit you or meet your needs.

dairycreek · October 29, 2007, 08:08 PM

Since you raised the name of the CZ line and mentioned that the .380 might be in the running let me suggest one of my favorites, the CZ83 which is a 380.

I find this to be an exceptionally attractive gun and have put several K rounds through this one without any trouble at all. I would also suggest the CZ P-01 which is a very fine 9mm gun. Good luck in your search.

GalilARM · October 29, 2007, 08:13 PM

Heres another nod for the CZ75. Best gun for the money, and probably would still be a great gun for the money even if it was a lot more expensive. You cant go wrong with a CZ.

sholling · October 29, 2007, 08:38 PM

Unless size is really a super critical issue I wouldn't even consider a .380. Just go straight to the 9x19 and don't look back. And even if size were critical there are 9mm pistols that are just as small. Here is why... .380 practice ammunition $97/500rds; 9mm practice ammunition $75/500rds. .380 self defense ammunition $27/50rds; 9mm self defense ammunition $20/50rds. Add to that the terminal ballistics and the fact that the .380 doesn't come close to the 9x19 in a self defense situation and buying a 9mm becomes a no-brainer.

Platforms:
The CZ is a nice pistol. The Smith & Wesson M&P or M&P9c (both well under $500 with rebates) is pretty hard to beat especially with rebates and extra free magazines by mail promotions etc. I'm also a fan of the Browning Hi-Power.

Qwiks draw · October 29, 2007, 11:04 PM

The full size or near full size pistols are just easier to shoot with.

Tolerance for recoil is also a consideration. May not be on this case, but again, it can be a factor for some.
9x19 has a lot going for it as has been already been pointed out.

It does give a good account for itself in the real world defense shootings,despite "conventional wisdom" to the contrary.

Standard pressure loads work well.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=282628
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=309184
+P is more useful for defense in the 4-5 inch barreled guns more so than the shorty tubed ones.

Qwiks draw · October 29, 2007, 11:30 PM

Then again, the .380 ACP can make sense for some.
The CZ83 as shown is an excellent choice. Has the heft, longer sighting plain,right barrel length to get the most out of .380 cartridge and is built well.

Beretta makes the 84,85,86 series of pistols. These have similar operation and manual of arms to the famous Beretta 92 cousin. Some of those models are out of production and some are still being made. One model has a tip up barrel for easy loading and unloading without racking the slide.

Some people have physical conditions that may make that tough. The tip up barrel version is a used gun only guise as of know. These shouldb e able to be found at the online gun auctions or locally.

Bersa makes the .380 Thunderer and it's cousins. This is similar to the Walther PPK, but was engineered so if dropped or the hammer is accidently hit hard a round won't go off. S&W Walther PPK/S version just recently took care of that overlooked safety problem.

Taurus makes the PT138 that holds 10 rounds of .380 ACP. This however has a DAO style trigger similar in feel to a light long revolver double action pull.
If you've had experience with DAO style triggers then this is one to look at.

SIG offers the 232 which is a neat gun. Works well and replaced the SIG 230.
This is in the Walther PPK/S league in size. Maybe a bit bigger.

Then,last but not least there is the Walther PPK/S in collaboration with S&W. This has had some minor re-engineering to take care of hammre bite or slide bite problems that could happen to people with large or fleshy hands.

The others coming in listing their 9x19 choices will have good reason to ask to consider their choices as well.

Take your time in choosing,look and handle as many as possible, and check these out at some of the specific gun forums for these brands,makes, and models. While there are many helpful members here with excellent advice specific performance and question parameters can be the baliwick of the special gun forums. Don't go to a GMC forum to find out about Fords. Same with the gun forums.

I've got three gun specific forums in my signature, but there are many others to check out.

Asking questions at any of these forums will be answered in an honest manner.

This goes for any of the gun specific forums. Not just the three in the signature.
So keep us posted, but take your time. We can suggest, but what fits us and our needs may well not be yours.

Oh,yes. Brand bashing is the sign of immature and disrespctful people with issues. Expect to see some. Take their advice with little or no notice. Credibility counts,words mean something,and we are all accountable for our actions.

I respect all those who have chosen a brand,make, or model that fits them and their needs.Hope others will follow that line.

Sturmgewehre · October 30, 2007, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Oh,yes. Brand bashing is the sign of immature and disrespctful people with issues. Expect to see some. Take their advice with little or no notice. Credibility counts,words mean something,and we are all accountable for our actions.

Please define "brand bashing" for us. Are you suggesting that if someone has a bad experience(s) with a particular brand/model that it's "bashing" if they relay those accounts?

This is one of the reasons I refuse to give my money to publications like Guns and Ammo. They're too scared to lose their advertising dollars to write an objective review of products.

I want to hear the good and the bad about a maker or model. That's the whole point of a discussion forum. I don't come here to sit in an echo chamber listening to everyone saying "there's no such thing as a bad product".

I subscribe to Gun Tests because they are objective and if something doesn't meet their expectations, they write about it. I expect the same thing here.

If you don't want to hear someone else's objective review of a product that you might own, don't read it. But to complain about negative reviews is counter productive. I want to hear stories, both good and bad, so I can make an informed decision. If all you want are positive gun reviews, subscribe to Guns and Ammo.

I might add that calling someone else immature because they had a bad experience with a product and had the audacity to come here and write about it is a little out of line, don't you think?

Sturmgewehre · October 30, 2007, 09:56 AM

Oppy,

Buying a handgun is very subjective and it's completely different for everyone. The best thing to do is develop a list of potential candidates then venture out to your local shops to see if you can handle and shoot them. The proof is in the pudding so to speak.

What works for me might not work for you.

Here's a list of firearms I hold in high regard you might consider (in no particular order):

1) HK USP
2) Beretta 92
3) Springfield XD
4) S&W M&P
5) Glock
6) 1911 (Springfield, Colt, Dan Wesson, S&W would be my choices for entry level - to mid level guns)
7) CZ 75 (you might check out the Armalite AR24 as well)
8) Sig Sauer

I would stick with 9mm over .380. Since you're not really carrying it for self defense, the 9mm will be easier on the pocket book and is more commonly available in places like WalMart. .380 is popular, but typically you have a smaller selection of ammo and often it costs just as much as 9mm or more. Since 9mm is a world standard, you can often find surplus ammo for pretty cheap. 9mm is my favorite plinking / target shooting round.

The handguns I've listed are top of the line pistols made by companies most people hold in pretty high regard.

I suspect, if you're like most everyone else, you'll really like the S&W M&P. The price is right, it's very ergonomic, it's readily available and most owners absolutely rave about them.

Happy hunting!

Qwiks draw · October 30, 2007, 10:23 AM

Don't have to explain all that as that all has been rehashed over and over in this forum elswhere.
Dumping on an entire brand,makes,and models is not warranted for any reason.

Individual problems with one gun does not make a whole brand bad.

There will be those who have problems, but that isn't what this is about.
Everyone has good input so far.

This is subjective to a point and is also about the buyer and their needs. The part that is objective is the various types and what fits the person doing the query. There are performance parameters for each gun and some will be better for this person that others.It's up to us to point out what those are if they can be pointed out.
That's how my posts have been going whether that's been apparent or not to others.

There's been good info so far for the most part.
I agree the person who started this query go out and try as many brands, makes and models as he can.
Those have been listed by all of us here somewhere so that's not an issue either.
Also do research. This has all been stated.
The rest is up to him.

Good hunting and keep us posted on how things are going.

Oppy · October 30, 2007, 02:07 PM

I truly appreciate all the replies and suggestions in such a quick manner. I am going to the range to shoot a few this weekend and was hoping to arrive there with a bit more knowledge to help narrow down my options a bit. My price point is likely $300 or less which also helps to narrow down the options to a manageable many.

Thank you!

notbubba · October 30, 2007, 03:05 PM

In 9 mm
A good buy is the factory refinished Sig 229.

In .380
I think Bursa is the best buy.

Sig 232 & Walther PPK cost more and both are real likely to take a chunck out of your thumb.
Their grip is real high and close to the slide. It's easy for your hand to move up a little and get bite.

The main thing is to see what feels good in your hand.

sholling · October 30, 2007, 04:06 PM

Quote:

My price point is likely $300 or less

You're going to have a tough time finding anything of good quality brand new at that price. Maybe a Mak but the ammo prices will kill you later. If I were you I'd save a bit longer and get quality.

Qwiks draw · October 30, 2007, 05:10 PM

There's the either www.budsgunshop.com , www.jgsales.com, www.aimsurplus.com , or www.cdnnsports.com that would be likely spots for that kind of used gun or price goal in mind.
For CDNN Sports getting the catalog with firearms they sell and print the catalog several times a year is a good bet along with the others listed here.

Shotgun News periodical at gun stores and some Wal-marts has these businesses in them and what's available.
Other than that there is the Rossi line with the 851,971,351 or 461 line that are availble at that price line.

One of the gunwriters a few years back was doing a piece on the overlooked .38 Special handguns when the Rossi 851 came up for the article. He liked the overall workmanship and was impressed by the trigger pull double and single action. Said the trigger release was the glass rod break type and the trigger stroke was lighter than some of the custom shop S&W revolver trigger jobs he'd had done.

There's the jeweler who buys 11 Rossi 351 5 shot snubbies and keeps them around his jewelry store.Store staff are trained in their use.

Day came a few years back where the store was held up by tow vicious armed thugs. One with a sawed off double barrel shotgun. When the thugs looked like they were going to shoot regardless, the jeweler and his staff used the Rossis to shoot it out with the crooks.
Score: Bad guys; one dead and one seriously wounded. Good guys: no one hurt. All the Rossis were used in the shootout. This also left the jeweler time to get to his pump shotgun and help in the shop's defense.

Jeweler went out and bought 11 more Rossi 351s when the police bag and tagged the others for evidence.

This was in the police and tactical journals and documented.
Rossi is just another one to consider.
There are good used guns form these above sources that will work well too.

allenomics · October 30, 2007, 10:37 PM

For carry and all around use, you can't go wrong with a Glock 19. A good price NIB is $479.

standerson · October 31, 2007, 04:47 AM

I picked up a police trade in Sig 226 for $325. The finish was worn but it is one of the best shooters I have in the safe.

Oppy · November 20, 2007, 12:54 AM

I decided on my new gun and purchased a CZ-82 from AIM. Arrived without a scratch, smudge or mark on it. Amazing condition for a used/surplus gun. Picked it up 'out the door' for $219 including $10 for hand pick - plus shipping. Took it to the range and had a great time. Ergonomics for my hand are superb. Kick was less than the Bulg Makarov we took with us (otherwise very similar in feel).
For me, this was an outstanding find.

Qwiks draw · November 24, 2007, 01:49 PM

Oppy. Now to give us an obligatory range report. We like juicy details. Makarov .com has info on the CZ82 as well as : http://forums.gunboards.com/forumsdisplay.php?f=45
Let us know how things turn out.

chris in va · November 24, 2007, 03:00 PM

HK PSP.

But the CZ line is great too. Hold a few different models though, I can't get my little finger all the way on the 'compact' versions. Big hands are my curse. Nice thing about the safetied ones, they can be carried cocked n locked or hammer down for DA first shot.

Don P · November 24, 2007, 04:13 PM

Beretta 92 or the Beretta PX4 Storm. Both are good shooting 9mm. You may also want to look at the Glock 26 as it's another good shooter and very CCW friendly

curmudgeon1 · November 26, 2007, 03:19 AM

If you're limiting yourself to 9mm and $300., look for a used Kahr.

Oppy · November 27, 2007, 01:09 AM

The CZ-82 was not flawless during my first trip to the range - two jams initially but none after the second clip. I am told an initial cleaning before my trip to the range likely would have prevented that.
The CZ is extremely comfortable and its bark is similar to, but slightly less than, the Bulg Mak we were also using. The sights seem good, though I would prefer a a more vibrant color or brighter white. My groupings were fairly tight, if not consistently low and to the left

My two trips have been most enjoyable. Again, it's a very personal decision but I would recommend those thinking about them to give them a good look.

Richard · November 27, 2007, 09:40 AM

Oppy, trust me the CZ82 will get you through the night. I find it a confusing pistol. Why? It feels more like a 9mm in my hand than a 9x18 Mak, this may be because I like and use Maks so much. With this said, the CZ82 may be over engineered and that is a good thing. Enjoy your new toy and file a range report. Regards, Richard

My CZ82:

JWT · November 27, 2007, 09:51 AM

If you decide on a 9mm the CZ line is hard to beat. Their guns are very solid and fit the hand well (at least my hand). The CZ 75, and it's variants, is an excellent gun worthy of consideration.

If you're interested in a polymer frame at a reasonable price the FNP9 is worth looking at. It has a modest recoil, comes with 3 magazines, had interchangeble backstraps, and shoots very nicely.

October 29, 2007, 03:41 PM	#1
Oppy Member Join Date: October 29, 2007 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 23	Looking for Suggestions I have limited handgun experience over the past 25 years, having shot a variety of mostly 9mm and plinking with my Ruger Mark II. It is time to step up and purchase a new one and I am looking for suggestions. Not a full time carry, so size to me is not critical. I have handled Mak, Bersa, and have read good things about the CZ line. I am not overly price sensitive, but looking for that fine line where quality and price meet To limit this a bit, I am looking at between .380 and 9x19. Any helpful tips and guidance would be most appreciated. __________________ Oppy "The trouble with trouble is that it always starts out as fun".

October 29, 2007, 08:08 PM	#3
dairycreek Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: North Plains, Oregon, USA Posts: 1,867	Since you raised the name of the CZ line and mentioned that the .380 might be in the running let me suggest one of my favorites, the CZ83 which is a 380. I find this to be an exceptionally attractive gun and have put several K rounds through this one without any trouble at all. I would also suggest the CZ P-01 which is a very fine 9mm gun. Good luck in your search. __________________ ALWAYS PROTECT YOUR HEARING AND VISION GOOD SHOOTING

October 29, 2007, 08:38 PM	#5
sholling Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 1999 Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California Posts: 4,261	Unless size is really a super critical issue I wouldn't even consider a .380. Just go straight to the 9x19 and don't look back. And even if size were critical there are 9mm pistols that are just as small. Here is why... .380 practice ammunition $97/500rds; 9mm practice ammunition $75/500rds. .380 self defense ammunition $27/50rds; 9mm self defense ammunition $20/50rds. Add to that the terminal ballistics and the fact that the .380 doesn't come close to the 9x19 in a self defense situation and buying a 9mm becomes a no-brainer. Platforms: The CZ is a nice pistol. The Smith & Wesson M&P or M&P9c (both well under $500 with rebates) is pretty hard to beat especially with rebates and extra free magazines by mail promotions etc. I'm also a fan of the Browning Hi-Power. __________________ Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation. Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society.

October 30, 2007, 09:56 AM	#9
Sturmgewehre Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 4,212	Oppy, Buying a handgun is very subjective and it's completely different for everyone. The best thing to do is develop a list of potential candidates then venture out to your local shops to see if you can handle and shoot them. The proof is in the pudding so to speak. What works for me might not work for you. Here's a list of firearms I hold in high regard you might consider (in no particular order): 1) HK USP 2) Beretta 92 3) Springfield XD 4) S&W M&P 5) Glock 6) 1911 (Springfield, Colt, Dan Wesson, S&W would be my choices for entry level - to mid level guns) 7) CZ 75 (you might check out the Armalite AR24 as well) 8) Sig Sauer I would stick with 9mm over .380. Since you're not really carrying it for self defense, the 9mm will be easier on the pocket book and is more commonly available in places like WalMart. .380 is popular, but typically you have a smaller selection of ammo and often it costs just as much as 9mm or more. Since 9mm is a world standard, you can often find surplus ammo for pretty cheap. 9mm is my favorite plinking / target shooting round. The handguns I've listed are top of the line pistols made by companies most people hold in pretty high regard. I suspect, if you're like most everyone else, you'll really like the S&W M&P. The price is right, it's very ergonomic, it's readily available and most owners absolutely rave about them. Happy hunting! __________________ Visit my YouTube channel for reviews, tests and more. Ex Mea Sententia

October 30, 2007, 02:07 PM	#11
Oppy Member Join Date: October 29, 2007 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 23	I truly appreciate all the replies and suggestions in such a quick manner. I am going to the range to shoot a few this weekend and was hoping to arrive there with a bit more knowledge to help narrow down my options a bit. My price point is likely $300 or less which also helps to narrow down the options to a manageable many. Thank you! __________________ Oppy "The trouble with trouble is that it always starts out as fun".

October 29, 2007, 07:52 PM	#2
Qwiks draw Junior member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Posts: 879	If money is an object then look no further than the CZ75BD or the Ruger P95s. Thr RugerSR9 is just too new for consideration. Have the Ruger P95s and have had excellent service from both.Older models too. Dureability and longevity are the bywords for these.Have short stubby fingers and hands. The Rugers fit where others didn't. So much for being too blocky. The daughter,20 something, is much taller(mom's side of the family) and with the much longer fingers went with the CZ series. Really nice guns. Last but not least there are the Taurus 92 or 911 series. If used to DA/SA triggers these are all nice ones to consider. If used to DAO triggers then the Taurus 24/7 series is one to look at.These are labled SA/DA, but are kin of the DAO trigger type. Daughter has the CZ75 and the CZ85. Excellent shooters both as far as guns go. This is all just gee whiz recommendations because what fits us may not very well fit you or meet your needs.

October 29, 2007, 08:13 PM	#4
GalilARM Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: TX Posts: 267	Heres another nod for the CZ75. Best gun for the money, and probably would still be a great gun for the money even if it was a lot more expensive. You cant go wrong with a CZ.

October 29, 2007, 11:04 PM	#6
Qwiks draw Junior member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Posts: 879	The full size or near full size pistols are just easier to shoot with. Tolerance for recoil is also a consideration. May not be on this case, but again, it can be a factor for some. 9x19 has a lot going for it as has been already been pointed out. It does give a good account for itself in the real world defense shootings,despite "conventional wisdom" to the contrary. Standard pressure loads work well. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=282628 http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=309184 +P is more useful for defense in the 4-5 inch barreled guns more so than the shorty tubed ones.

October 29, 2007, 11:30 PM	#7
Qwiks draw Junior member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Posts: 879	Then again, the .380 ACP can make sense for some. The CZ83 as shown is an excellent choice. Has the heft, longer sighting plain,right barrel length to get the most out of .380 cartridge and is built well. Beretta makes the 84,85,86 series of pistols. These have similar operation and manual of arms to the famous Beretta 92 cousin. Some of those models are out of production and some are still being made. One model has a tip up barrel for easy loading and unloading without racking the slide. Some people have physical conditions that may make that tough. The tip up barrel version is a used gun only guise as of know. These shouldb e able to be found at the online gun auctions or locally. Bersa makes the .380 Thunderer and it's cousins. This is similar to the Walther PPK, but was engineered so if dropped or the hammer is accidently hit hard a round won't go off. S&W Walther PPK/S version just recently took care of that overlooked safety problem. Taurus makes the PT138 that holds 10 rounds of .380 ACP. This however has a DAO style trigger similar in feel to a light long revolver double action pull. If you've had experience with DAO style triggers then this is one to look at. SIG offers the 232 which is a neat gun. Works well and replaced the SIG 230. This is in the Walther PPK/S league in size. Maybe a bit bigger. Then,last but not least there is the Walther PPK/S in collaboration with S&W. This has had some minor re-engineering to take care of hammre bite or slide bite problems that could happen to people with large or fleshy hands. The others coming in listing their 9x19 choices will have good reason to ask to consider their choices as well. Take your time in choosing,look and handle as many as possible, and check these out at some of the specific gun forums for these brands,makes, and models. While there are many helpful members here with excellent advice specific performance and question parameters can be the baliwick of the special gun forums. Don't go to a GMC forum to find out about Fords. Same with the gun forums. I've got three gun specific forums in my signature, but there are many others to check out. Asking questions at any of these forums will be answered in an honest manner. This goes for any of the gun specific forums. Not just the three in the signature. So keep us posted, but take your time. We can suggest, but what fits us and our needs may well not be yours. Oh,yes. Brand bashing is the sign of immature and disrespctful people with issues. Expect to see some. Take their advice with little or no notice. Credibility counts,words mean something,and we are all accountable for our actions. I respect all those who have chosen a brand,make, or model that fits them and their needs.Hope others will follow that line.

October 30, 2007, 10:23 AM	#10
Qwiks draw Junior member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Posts: 879	Don't have to explain all that as that all has been rehashed over and over in this forum elswhere. Dumping on an entire brand,makes,and models is not warranted for any reason. Individual problems with one gun does not make a whole brand bad. There will be those who have problems, but that isn't what this is about. Everyone has good input so far. This is subjective to a point and is also about the buyer and their needs. The part that is objective is the various types and what fits the person doing the query. There are performance parameters for each gun and some will be better for this person that others.It's up to us to point out what those are if they can be pointed out. That's how my posts have been going whether that's been apparent or not to others. There's been good info so far for the most part. I agree the person who started this query go out and try as many brands, makes and models as he can. Those have been listed by all of us here somewhere so that's not an issue either. Also do research. This has all been stated. The rest is up to him. Good hunting and keep us posted on how things are going.

October 30, 2007, 03:05 PM	#12
notbubba Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2001 Location: Jackson Michigan Posts: 790	In 9 mm A good buy is the factory refinished Sig 229. In .380 I think Bursa is the best buy. Sig 232 & Walther PPK cost more and both are real likely to take a chunck out of your thumb. Their grip is real high and close to the slide. It's easy for your hand to move up a little and get bite. The main thing is to see what feels good in your hand. __________________ www.mcrgo.org Michigan Coalition For Responsible Gun Owners

October 30, 2007, 05:10 PM	#14
Qwiks draw Junior member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Posts: 879	There's the either www.budsgunshop.com , www.jgsales.com, www.aimsurplus.com , or www.cdnnsports.com that would be likely spots for that kind of used gun or price goal in mind. For CDNN Sports getting the catalog with firearms they sell and print the catalog several times a year is a good bet along with the others listed here. Shotgun News periodical at gun stores and some Wal-marts has these businesses in them and what's available. Other than that there is the Rossi line with the 851,971,351 or 461 line that are availble at that price line. One of the gunwriters a few years back was doing a piece on the overlooked .38 Special handguns when the Rossi 851 came up for the article. He liked the overall workmanship and was impressed by the trigger pull double and single action. Said the trigger release was the glass rod break type and the trigger stroke was lighter than some of the custom shop S&W revolver trigger jobs he'd had done. There's the jeweler who buys 11 Rossi 351 5 shot snubbies and keeps them around his jewelry store.Store staff are trained in their use. Day came a few years back where the store was held up by tow vicious armed thugs. One with a sawed off double barrel shotgun. When the thugs looked like they were going to shoot regardless, the jeweler and his staff used the Rossis to shoot it out with the crooks. Score: Bad guys; one dead and one seriously wounded. Good guys: no one hurt. All the Rossis were used in the shootout. This also left the jeweler time to get to his pump shotgun and help in the shop's defense. Jeweler went out and bought 11 more Rossi 351s when the police bag and tagged the others for evidence. This was in the police and tactical journals and documented. Rossi is just another one to consider. There are good used guns form these above sources that will work well too. Last edited by Qwiks draw; October 31, 2007 at 08:45 PM.

October 30, 2007, 10:37 PM	#15
allenomics Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Posts: 1,536	For carry and all around use, you can't go wrong with a Glock 19. A good price NIB is $479. __________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member Knowledge is not power. Applied knowledge is power!

October 31, 2007, 04:47 AM	#16
standerson Member Join Date: December 20, 2005 Posts: 41	I picked up a police trade in Sig 226 for $325. The finish was worn but it is one of the best shooters I have in the safe.

November 20, 2007, 12:54 AM	#17
Oppy Member Join Date: October 29, 2007 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 23	My New 82 I decided on my new gun and purchased a CZ-82 from AIM. Arrived without a scratch, smudge or mark on it. Amazing condition for a used/surplus gun. Picked it up 'out the door' for $219 including $10 for hand pick - plus shipping. Took it to the range and had a great time. Ergonomics for my hand are superb. Kick was less than the Bulg Makarov we took with us (otherwise very similar in feel). For me, this was an outstanding find. __________________ Oppy "The trouble with trouble is that it always starts out as fun".

November 24, 2007, 01:49 PM	#18
Qwiks draw Junior member Join Date: August 14, 2006 Posts: 879	Oppy. Now to give us an obligatory range report. We like juicy details. Makarov .com has info on the CZ82 as well as : http://forums.gunboards.com/forumsdisplay.php?f=45 Let us know how things turn out.

November 24, 2007, 03:00 PM	#19
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	HK PSP. But the CZ line is great too. Hold a few different models though, I can't get my little finger all the way on the 'compact' versions. Big hands are my curse. Nice thing about the safetied ones, they can be carried cocked n locked or hammer down for DA first shot.

November 24, 2007, 04:13 PM	#20
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	Just my .02 worth Beretta 92 or the Beretta PX4 Storm. Both are good shooting 9mm. You may also want to look at the Glock 26 as it's another good shooter and very CCW friendly __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

November 26, 2007, 03:19 AM	#21
curmudgeon1 Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: n.e. ohio Posts: 544	If you're limiting yourself to 9mm and $300., look for a used Kahr.

November 27, 2007, 01:09 AM	#22
Oppy Member Join Date: October 29, 2007 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 23	For you Quick Draw... The CZ-82 was not flawless during my first trip to the range - two jams initially but none after the second clip. I am told an initial cleaning before my trip to the range likely would have prevented that. The CZ is extremely comfortable and its bark is similar to, but slightly less than, the Bulg Mak we were also using. The sights seem good, though I would prefer a a more vibrant color or brighter white. My groupings were fairly tight, if not consistently low and to the left My two trips have been most enjoyable. Again, it's a very personal decision but I would recommend those thinking about them to give them a good look. __________________ Oppy "The trouble with trouble is that it always starts out as fun".

November 27, 2007, 09:40 AM	#23
Richard Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Southeastern Michigan Posts: 1,305	Oppy, trust me the CZ82 will get you through the night. I find it a confusing pistol. Why? It feels more like a 9mm in my hand than a 9x18 Mak, this may be because I like and use Maks so much. With this said, the CZ82 may be over engineered and that is a good thing. Enjoy your new toy and file a range report. Regards, Richard My CZ82:

November 27, 2007, 09:51 AM	#24
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	If you decide on a 9mm the CZ line is hard to beat. Their guns are very solid and fit the hand well (at least my hand). The CZ 75, and it's variants, is an excellent gun worthy of consideration. If you're interested in a polymer frame at a reasonable price the FNP9 is worth looking at. It has a modest recoil, comes with 3 magazines, had interchangeble backstraps, and shoots very nicely.