March 9, 2024, 02:16 PM | #1 |
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Old bullets
Hi looking for some information on some bullets I came across at a 1800s farm house in South Western pa. Around 50 rounds.
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March 9, 2024, 04:05 PM | #2 |
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Without further information, it looks like a 56-56 Spencer.
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March 9, 2024, 04:14 PM | #3 |
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Those are cartridges, not "bullets." The bullet is the lead projectile at the end.
I did a bit of playing in Windows Paint, copying the ruler, rotating it 90 degrees, and overlaying it on the cartridge. The diameter is nowhere near .56 caliber -- it's just a shade over 3/8 of an inch, and pretty close to 10mm. So it's a rimfire cartridge with a caliber somewhere around .38" or 10mm (.39"). Possibly .41 Short Rimfire: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.41_Short
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March 9, 2024, 05:10 PM | #4 |
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The dimensions and the look of it do say it is a 41 Short Derringer cartridge according to Cartridges of the World. That variety was made by the United States Cartridge Co.
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March 9, 2024, 05:42 PM | #5 |
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Those probably have some collector value. You might poke around for a box, it could have some value too.
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March 9, 2024, 07:34 PM | #6 |
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Thanks everyone
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March 9, 2024, 09:29 PM | #7 |
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Its outside my experience but as I recall, that may have been the chambering for the Remington Over/Under Derringer. The kind Gamblers might pull in a TV Western.
JohnKSa Is probably right about collector value. If they are still in business The Olde Western Scrounger may be able to help you. Buffalo Arms is another possibility for an idea of value. |
March 10, 2024, 01:57 AM | #8 |
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Here's the manipulated image:
There was also a .38 Rimfire Short. The cartridge in the image may be a tab bit too small for .41 Rimfire Short, I'm looking for an image of a .38 Rimfire Short for comparison.
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March 10, 2024, 07:42 PM | #9 |
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What my eyes tell me.
It looks like its a heeled bullet. 22's are like that, The OD of the cartridge case is nominally the same size as the OD of the bullet. Its a metric/inch scale Both bullet and cartridge case are slightly larger than 3/8 inch and slightly larger than 1 cm or 10mm (.3937 in) The cartridge/scale are not exactly on the same plane . Tough to assume precision. I would not argue against it being a .41 . Remember cartridge naming conventions vary sometimes from bore/ bullet dia. Like 38 Spl Last edited by HiBC; March 11, 2024 at 06:01 AM. |
March 10, 2024, 08:41 PM | #10 | |
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Quote:
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March 10, 2024, 10:12 PM | #11 |
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The only good way to get good measurements of the case and bullet is to actually measure them. By that I mean Amartin1955 needs to measure them with a micrometer.
Last night I was trying to reconcile the case and bullet by using the visible tape measure in the image, and it is an exercise in futility. I feel the perspective of the rule and the bullet make it difficult to get a good measurement. I'm fairly certain it isn't a .38 Short. There is a picture of that round in CotW - the case is roughly twice as long as the visible portion of the bullet. Whereas the case of the 41 Short is roughly the same length as the visible portion of the bullet. The image in the book looks almost identical to the image in the post here. |
March 10, 2024, 11:18 PM | #12 |
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I haven't seen a photo of a .38 Rimfire Short, but I do agree that the .41 Rimfire Short appears identical in shape and proportion, which was what initially led me to suggest that as the identity of the mystery ammunition.
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March 12, 2024, 02:29 PM | #13 |
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While a micrometer is the most precise, even a cheap plastic caliper measuring the round will give information accurate enough for a reasonably good identification. The OP need to get one (or borrow one) and take photos of it measuring the width and length of the round.
ALL the old rimfire rounds used heeled bullets. So did some centerfires, in the early days. Only the .22 rimfires are still using heeled bullets these days (other than reproductions of the old rimfire round if any are being produced.) The round pictured is probably a .41 rimfire, could possibly be a .38 rimfire, there's not a lot of dimensional difference between the two and a tape measure isn't quite good enough to tell which it is.
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March 13, 2024, 10:27 AM | #14 |
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Not .41 Short. The case length is way too long.
.41 Short case was just under a half inch long. That case appears to be over 1 inch long. EDIT IN: Oh hell, ignore that, I was looking at the CM scale... just saw the inch scale. OK, that said, the bullet profile is more indicative of the .41 Short Rimfire than any of the other rimfire cartridges. The .41 traditionally had a much sharper ogive than any of the other rimfire pistol cartridges that were in production at that time. It seems to have been almost a trademark for the cartridge, in much the same way that the flat point was almost a trademark for the .44 Henry cartridge. Finally, and I'm away from my reference books at the time, but I believe that the .38 Short Rimfire cartridge case was slightly longer than the .41 Short's case.
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