NAA's new .32 cartridge

George Hill · April 29, 2002, 05:16 PM

NAA has created a new genre of small handguns. The .32NAA is no mere Mouse-Gun. It's too ferocious to be a Mouse-Gun. This thing is a Rat-Gun. Seriously. It's LOUD. It spits a big fireball. It hurts your hand. It looks and shoots like a miniaturized .357SIG.
The gun was reliable and suprisingly accurate for a lack of real gunsights, even with the nasty trigger. A Chrony was recording speed averaging 1,250 FPS. One shot was almost 1,300. I don't know what was up with that one... but a hot load. Dang! Firing just one magazine will leave your hand feeling abused. The box said the velocity was 1,200FPS, but I recorded not a single shot that slow.
I'm impressed.
Everyone that I let fire it were impressed too.
Viscious little thing. Rabid. Angry.
I love it.

Dave R · April 29, 2002, 06:31 PM

Sounds fun.

I'm still a skeptic. If you're going to shoot a .38 cal case, why not put a .38 cal bullet in it (i.e. .380acp+p)? Do you get that much more energy with the smaller, faster bullet? I guess you'll get more reliable expansion from hollow-points...

I'll probably change my mind after I shoot one, though

Stoic · April 29, 2002, 07:00 PM

George,

When will the .32 NAA go to market? I can't wait to buy one.

George Hill · April 29, 2002, 10:06 PM

I'm not sure when they will be available... probably pretty soon.
If your wanting one, go for it. It's not a bad choice. My full review is here:
http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/mousegun.htm

Dave R... Your right. ProLoad has a nice +P .380 load that is about the same velocity. The downside to that load is that its a heavier bullet. The recoil on that one is downright BRUTAL. This load has about 15% less felt recoil than that hot .380 load. Now, that 15% is in the PAIN area of the Felt Recoil Spectrum. It HURTS a LOT more than the .32NAA. And the .32NAA already caused me some good pain. My wrist is STILL hurting. I think I have a mild sprain from the danged thing. I'm not exagerating either. Yes, me... a big guy... hurting HOURS later from a danged little .32 popper.
Of course that Pro Load +P cartridge is a more effective fight stopper. But your only going to want to fire that out of something like a SIG P232 or Walter PPK... not a tiny blowback like a Guardian. No Way.

The idea of chambering a much thinner and lighter Kel-Tec pistol in this cartridge... NO THANKS. Hmmm... Fire this round in a Kel-Tec, or put my hand under an industrial staple gun. I'd have to flip a coin.

454 · April 30, 2002, 12:56 AM

I understand there will also be 32 case down to a 25 cal ???

George Hill · April 30, 2002, 09:39 AM

That is correct. That will be available in the smaller .32ACP framed Guardian.
I have ZERO interest in that one for some reason. I saw it, but I didn't bother testing it.

George Hill · April 30, 2002, 10:17 AM

I cring at saying this, but I have some new pictures up... ones that were taken while testing.

The images are bad... but might get cleaned up. We'll see.
Yes, that's me. The ugly guy with the hat.

Can anyone guess what that vehicle is I am standing by?

Onslaught · April 30, 2002, 01:27 PM

Gee George, you're a lot younger than I thought you'd be...

Anyway, I wanted to get your opinion on this... In my VERY limited experience with the NAA Guardian, I found it to have more recoil than my KT P32... I figured it had to do with straight blowback vs. locked breech. Based on that, wouldn't it be quite possible that a .32NAA KT would have about the same recoil, or maybe even less, than the NAA Guardian?

Also, if you don't mind, I'd like to share my analogy regarding a necked down case and what difference (if any) it may make.

Take your garden hose... turn it on all the way, watch the water come out. Turn it off and attach one of those necked down "fire hose" looking ends on it. Turn it on all the way again... That's how I personally view the necked down cartridge effect on velocity.

Thanks for all the effort George... Great write-up.

George Hill · April 30, 2002, 01:41 PM

Hey, that's a good analogy on the internal balistics and pressure.

You know what?
Today, my hand and wrist are STILL sore! I woke up with it stiff and just a wee bit swollen.

My WRIST you dirty minded Apes!

Nightcrawler · April 30, 2002, 01:48 PM

You know, I wouldn't worry too terribly much about fight stopping power. With a bullet that small and fast, it's going to be a good penetrator, yes? Well, I'd opt to train myself for headshots if I was going to rely on a subcaliber handgun for self defense. And the .32NAA looks like it has more than enough velocity to reliably penetrate the human skull at fighting ranges.

Finally, a mousegun with some fire in its belly. Nice to see.

HankB · April 30, 2002, 01:58 PM

But like the man said . . . this is what you have in your pocket when you can't carry a real gun.

Someone else chose a different route to get to pretty much the same results:

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32def/gel32def.htm

George Hill · April 30, 2002, 02:21 PM

Yup... about the same results.
Now, I don't want to go off on a rant here...
But the problem with the Golden Loki version is that the cartridge is exactly the same size externally as a regular .32ACP cartridge. Load that into a .32 that isn't set up for it - and your going to have some MAJOR problems.
Would you want to load .45SUPER into an old Auto Ordinance or cheap imported Argentine 1911 or Star Firestar? HECK NO!
I've handled some .45s that should they fire a SUPER, would result in serious injury to the gun and the shooter. No way.
What they did to that cartridge is cut down a .30 carbine case and trim the rim... then they PACKED it with powder.
Take a look at that Kel-Tec they modified to handle that cartridge!
http://www.goldenloki.com/guns/keltec/glexp.htm
That is a heavily modified number there, using the spring from a P-40? Whoa. Needless to say, the excessive pressure is there... the risk if a KB in that little plastic gun is there. All the ingredience for a major disaster are there.
Yeah, they got there, and admitedly they got there first. The problem is that they took a very risky appoach.
I wouldnt carry that.
I wouldn't Fire that.
Hell, I wouldn't even be near the guy that is firing that. I've seen a KB in person before... I don't want to see it again.
There are too many other risks one takes in a life time.
The NAA approach is MUCH safer. Scratch that... it IS safe. The gun is SOLID. The method of getting the extra pressure is proven, and is safe. They are not trying to be stupid and neck the .380 case down to .25 and have a pressure factor near that of a freaking handgrenade.

Quote:

I have used a few different .32acp JHP bullets and an undisclosed amount of Bullseye powder.

Nice. Note to any of my shooting buddies - DO NOT bring a .32 Defender cartridge near me. Okay?

Out.

centralpadoug · April 30, 2002, 05:55 PM

What other smaller guns do you have experience with? I have only worked with fullsize pistols...what so you recommend I look for in a smaller gun?

Didn't mean to start a new thread, but y'all sound pretty knowledgable about the "sub" caliber guns...

blades67 · April 30, 2002, 07:35 PM

Spectre's.

George Hill · May 1, 2002, 12:06 AM

I've delt with .25s, .380s, and briefly with a .32. Normally I'ld go with the .380 if given the choice of only mouse guns. In a gun this small, those hot .380 loads are not a wise choice in my opinion. Those are better suited to .380s like the Walther PP and Sig P232... beefier guns that can better handle it. For these tiny pocket pistols, You do want velocity - these super short barrels give up a lot of energy and often times expansion is just not happening.
This .32NAA round may only be a little .32 caliber pill - but it's moving at the same velocity as a standard 9MM. That aint bad.
The bullets also tend to fragment more often than not. At least the factory loaded JHPs did. I think all but about 4 or 5 had broken into pieces of various sizes. Since we used a fackler box and those are not exactly a precise device for measuring... most all fragments were found at the deep end.
For a personal defense weapon the size of a Noise Cricket... A Guardian in .32NAA is not a bad choice. You have the velocity, and you have an inherent reliability bonus with that bottle necked cartridge. That is something to consider. ONLY 1 failure to feed with a poorly rolled handload. That aint bad. In fact, that is fantastic. Please Note: The gun I used was brand new and unfired. Right off the factory line and I picked it up at the factory. Normally NAA test fires a few rounds through each gun, but this gun didn't look like it had anything through it. No breaking in was done, thats for sure.
I'd prefer it over the .32ACP Guardian, that is for sure. Would I prefer it over the .380 Guardian? Yeah. I think so. Would I use it as a replacement for my regular every carry gun? Not on a bet.
But if I couldn't pack my regular gun... and was left with only a mouse gun as an option... Yeah, I think I would pick the .32NAA Guardian. I'd get one in stainless with the Ashley tritium dot front sight post and a trigger job... that it. Leave off the fancy wood grips... and the pimp pearl grips too. The regular black grips are good enough for this gun... they give you tons of grip and don't allow the gun to get squirmy on you.

9mmepiphany · May 1, 2002, 01:26 PM

george - isn't that an old toyota landcruiser...the japanese version of the land rover ?

Stoic · May 1, 2002, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Leave off the fancy wood grips... and the pimp pearl grips too. The regular black grips are good enough for this gun... they give you tons of grip and don't allow the gun to get squirmy on you.

George,

Have you tried the Hogue wood grips for the NAA? The factory grips don't have palm swells. They are adequate. However, the Hogue grips have palm swells and these create a better purchase in your hands to control recoil. This worked so well for me that I was able to eliminate the finger rest on the magazines for the flush floorplates with my Guardian.

Clutch · May 1, 2002, 08:29 PM

Off the thread here, George. Sorry... but Jeff Cooper may be one of the wisest men who ever lived. Good site you have...

April 29, 2002, 05:16 PM	#1
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	NAA's new .32 cartridge NAA has created a new genre of small handguns. The .32NAA is no mere Mouse-Gun. It's too ferocious to be a Mouse-Gun. This thing is a Rat-Gun. Seriously. It's LOUD. It spits a big fireball. It hurts your hand. It looks and shoots like a miniaturized .357SIG. The gun was reliable and suprisingly accurate for a lack of real gunsights, even with the nasty trigger. A Chrony was recording speed averaging 1,250 FPS. One shot was almost 1,300. I don't know what was up with that one... but a hot load. Dang! Firing just one magazine will leave your hand feeling abused. The box said the velocity was 1,200FPS, but I recorded not a single shot that slow. I'm impressed. Everyone that I let fire it were impressed too. Viscious little thing. Rabid. Angry. I love it. __________________ MAD OGRE

April 29, 2002, 06:31 PM	#2
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	Sounds fun. I'm still a skeptic. If you're going to shoot a .38 cal case, why not put a .38 cal bullet in it (i.e. .380acp+p)? Do you get that much more energy with the smaller, faster bullet? I guess you'll get more reliable expansion from hollow-points... I'll probably change my mind after I shoot one, though __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

April 29, 2002, 07:00 PM	#3
Stoic Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 1999 Location: Mid-South Posts: 329	George, When will the .32 NAA go to market? I can't wait to buy one. __________________ NRA Certified Firearm Instructor

April 29, 2002, 10:06 PM	#4
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	I'm not sure when they will be available... probably pretty soon. If your wanting one, go for it. It's not a bad choice. My full review is here: http://www.madogre.com/Interviews/mousegun.htm Dave R... Your right. ProLoad has a nice +P .380 load that is about the same velocity. The downside to that load is that its a heavier bullet. The recoil on that one is downright BRUTAL. This load has about 15% less felt recoil than that hot .380 load. Now, that 15% is in the PAIN area of the Felt Recoil Spectrum. It HURTS a LOT more than the .32NAA. And the .32NAA already caused me some good pain. My wrist is STILL hurting. I think I have a mild sprain from the danged thing. I'm not exagerating either. Yes, me... a big guy... hurting HOURS later from a danged little .32 popper. Of course that Pro Load +P cartridge is a more effective fight stopper. But your only going to want to fire that out of something like a SIG P232 or Walter PPK... not a tiny blowback like a Guardian. No Way. The idea of chambering a much thinner and lighter Kel-Tec pistol in this cartridge... NO THANKS. Hmmm... Fire this round in a Kel-Tec, or put my hand under an industrial staple gun. I'd have to flip a coin. __________________ MAD OGRE

April 30, 2002, 09:39 AM	#6
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	That is correct. That will be available in the smaller .32ACP framed Guardian. I have ZERO interest in that one for some reason. I saw it, but I didn't bother testing it. __________________ MAD OGRE

April 30, 2002, 12:56 AM	#5
454 Member Join Date: October 16, 2001 Posts: 74	I understand there will also be 32 case down to a 25 cal ???

April 30, 2002, 10:17 AM	#7
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	I cring at saying this, but I have some new pictures up... ones that were taken while testing. The images are bad... but might get cleaned up. We'll see. Yes, that's me. The ugly guy with the hat. Can anyone guess what that vehicle is I am standing by? __________________ MAD OGRE

April 30, 2002, 01:27 PM	#8
Onslaught Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 1999 Location: GA Posts: 1,749	Gee George, you're a lot younger than I thought you'd be... Anyway, I wanted to get your opinion on this... In my VERY limited experience with the NAA Guardian, I found it to have more recoil than my KT P32... I figured it had to do with straight blowback vs. locked breech. Based on that, wouldn't it be quite possible that a .32NAA KT would have about the same recoil, or maybe even less, than the NAA Guardian? Also, if you don't mind, I'd like to share my analogy regarding a necked down case and what difference (if any) it may make. Take your garden hose... turn it on all the way, watch the water come out. Turn it off and attach one of those necked down "fire hose" looking ends on it. Turn it on all the way again... That's how I personally view the necked down cartridge effect on velocity. Thanks for all the effort George... Great write-up. __________________ Yes Rico... KaBOOM!

April 30, 2002, 01:41 PM	#9
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	Hey, that's a good analogy on the internal balistics and pressure. You know what? Today, my hand and wrist are STILL sore! I woke up with it stiff and just a wee bit swollen. My WRIST you dirty minded Apes! __________________ MAD OGRE

April 30, 2002, 01:48 PM	#10
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	You know, I wouldn't worry too terribly much about fight stopping power. With a bullet that small and fast, it's going to be a good penetrator, yes? Well, I'd opt to train myself for headshots if I was going to rely on a subcaliber handgun for self defense. And the .32NAA looks like it has more than enough velocity to reliably penetrate the human skull at fighting ranges. Finally, a mousegun with some fire in its belly. Nice to see. __________________ Nightcrawler- TFL Alumnus

April 30, 2002, 01:58 PM	#11
HankB Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2000 Location: Central Texas, outside of Austin Posts: 1,698	Mighty mouse is still a mouse But like the man said . . . this is what you have in your pocket when you can't carry a real gun. Someone else chose a different route to get to pretty much the same results: http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32def/gel32def.htm __________________ To be kind to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself - Sun Tzu

April 30, 2002, 05:55 PM	#13
centralpadoug Member Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: Capital Region Pennsylvania Posts: 73	What other smaller guns do you have experience with? I have only worked with fullsize pistols...what so you recommend I look for in a smaller gun? Didn't mean to start a new thread, but y'all sound pretty knowledgable about the "sub" caliber guns... __________________ Shoot straight and laugh often!

April 30, 2002, 07:35 PM	#14
blades67 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 1999 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 6,014	Can anyone guess what that vehicle is I am standing by? Spectre's. __________________ Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat! I hunt, therefore I am.

May 1, 2002, 12:06 AM	#15
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	I've delt with .25s, .380s, and briefly with a .32. Normally I'ld go with the .380 if given the choice of only mouse guns. In a gun this small, those hot .380 loads are not a wise choice in my opinion. Those are better suited to .380s like the Walther PP and Sig P232... beefier guns that can better handle it. For these tiny pocket pistols, You do want velocity - these super short barrels give up a lot of energy and often times expansion is just not happening. This .32NAA round may only be a little .32 caliber pill - but it's moving at the same velocity as a standard 9MM. That aint bad. The bullets also tend to fragment more often than not. At least the factory loaded JHPs did. I think all but about 4 or 5 had broken into pieces of various sizes. Since we used a fackler box and those are not exactly a precise device for measuring... most all fragments were found at the deep end. For a personal defense weapon the size of a Noise Cricket... A Guardian in .32NAA is not a bad choice. You have the velocity, and you have an inherent reliability bonus with that bottle necked cartridge. That is something to consider. ONLY 1 failure to feed with a poorly rolled handload. That aint bad. In fact, that is fantastic. Please Note: The gun I used was brand new and unfired. Right off the factory line and I picked it up at the factory. Normally NAA test fires a few rounds through each gun, but this gun didn't look like it had anything through it. No breaking in was done, thats for sure. I'd prefer it over the .32ACP Guardian, that is for sure. Would I prefer it over the .380 Guardian? Yeah. I think so. Would I use it as a replacement for my regular every carry gun? Not on a bet. But if I couldn't pack my regular gun... and was left with only a mouse gun as an option... Yeah, I think I would pick the .32NAA Guardian. I'd get one in stainless with the Ashley tritium dot front sight post and a trigger job... that it. Leave off the fancy wood grips... and the pimp pearl grips too. The regular black grips are good enough for this gun... they give you tons of grip and don't allow the gun to get squirmy on you. __________________ MAD OGRE

May 1, 2002, 01:26 PM	#16
9mmepiphany Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2000 Location: northern california Posts: 1,092	george - isn't that an old toyota landcruiser...the japanese version of the land rover ? __________________ the map is not the territory

May 1, 2002, 08:29 PM	#18
Clutch Member Join Date: April 10, 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 30	Off the thread here, George. Sorry... but Jeff Cooper may be one of the wisest men who ever lived. Good site you have...