Gay marriage: do you support more than gun rights?

[Redworm]

The problem is the assumption of "normal" for homosexual acts, which result in "gay bowel syndrome" AIDS and other diseases.

Gay bowel syndrome? o_O Two gay men that don't have AIDS cannot magically create it just by saving sex. Same goes for two gay women (I notice how when the issue of gay rights comes up everyone professes disgust at two men...but those same folks would cheer at seeing two pretty girls in bikinis jello'd up and making out ) and gays are no less likely to have stable, commited, long lasting relationships than straights.

There is also the problem of Homosexual married couples adopting children. The fear of child rape which is usually homosexual in nature. Cross reference support of the North American Man Boy Love Association, by the homosexual community.

The homosexual community does not openly support NAMBLA any more than firearms enthusaists support the Ku Klux Klan. Child rape and homosexuality do not go hand in hand. I can raise a child with my partner just as well as any straight couple and that child would never be in danger.

[Wildalaska]

Same goes for two gay women (I notice how when the issue of gay rights comes up everyone professes disgust at two men...but those same folks would cheer at seeing two pretty girls in bikinis jello'd up and making out )

Two girls doing it isnt gay...its a show

WildothehypocrisyAlaska

[JuanCarlos]

Since we've decided to get into it, I'll note that whether or not homosexuality is a choice isn't particularly relevant...considering that religion is definitely a choice and still protected.

[rem33]

Man you guys took the bait hook line and sinker,,,,

All of ya's trying to show how tolerant ya all are when after only reading parts here and there its is so obvious that nearly, if not all of you have a big time chip on your shoulder, and workin so hard to act like it ain't so.....

Gezzzzzz,,,,,,GET OVER IT

[JuanCarlos]

Man you guys took the bait hook line and sinker,,,,

All of ya's trying to show how tolerant ya all are when after only reading parts here and there its is so obvious that nearly all if not all of you have a big time chip on your shoulder.

Gezzzzzz,,,,,,GET OVER IT

This thread's not mandatory. If you're not going to try to add anything constructive, you can stay out. If you have any rational or logical arguments they'd be appreciated. Any points in general, no matter how poorly thought out, are welcome. This crap contributes nothing.

EDIT: Also, unless you're gay and having to deal with this your whole "get over it attitude" rings hollow. Easy for you to say.

Next time ya'll are complaining about "assault weapons" bans, we'll see how you like it.

[rem33]

This crap contributes nothing.

Am I not to be tolerated also?
Seemed pretty logical to me. It's all right there in black and white.

[9mmsnoopy]

First off, i am gay.

I really couldnt care less about gay marriage one way or the other, i have been in a ltr for more than 3 years, if all of a sudden gay marriage was deemed ok, would i want to run out and get married? nope. I dont need a piece of paper to validate how i feel and care for another person, and over half of todays marriages arent worth the paper the license is printed on.

Now, having said all that, i just laugh when the people who are against it say "it will destroy the sanctity of marriage", well then if thats the case, then maybe we need to pass a law that says you get ONE crack at married life, if you cant keep it together then you broke the VOWS you took when you got married, and dont deserve another chance, because you broke the "sanctity" of marriage.

And as far as homosexuality being a choice/decision, i would say to all of the heteros who think it is, when exactly did you decide to be straight? you just woke up one day and decided it right? no, you didnt decide it, you just are. I sure as HELL didnt decide it, and its not about how your raised either, i never played with dolls,wasnt a mamas boy, or any other stereotypes you can think of. I was and still am big into sports, wasnt forced into it either, it was by choice. you simply are born one way or the other.

I dont agree with everything the gay community does for sure, i see no need for gay pride parades for instance, straights dont have a parade, being gay doesnt define who i am, why do i need to advertise?


People have always had thier prejudices and they always will, if someone doesnt like me because i am gay, well so what. I couldnt care less, everybody is so freaking p.c. these days its a joke. LULAC, the NAACP, and all other race/ethnic based groups get thier panties in a bunch at every little percieved slight, and yes, gay groups do it too, for instance the military guy giving his opinion on homosexuality. Thats his opinion, hes entitled to it, it doesnt bother me, i couldnt care less.

And Rosie O'donnell, just PLEASE shut the hell up already. You are an embarrasment! I know you think your some kind of spokesperson for gays everywhere, but you dont speak for me.

Anyone who cares to throw stones, P.M.'S are welcome

[The Canuck]

I have not read any other replies to this on purpose. Here's why. I am Canadian. We have had legalized gay marriage up here for a couple of years and guess what? The world has not yet ended. In fact it seems to be going along just like it did before. The gays I know are just like the straights I know. Some are asses, some run below the radar and some are good people. I have walked down the street and have been checked out by gay men. Did it bug me? Naw, not really. I check out chicks all the time. I figure as long as they don't try to infringe upon my personal space, no harm no foul! The only time I have ever disliked a gay person had NOTHING to do with his sexual orientation. It had to do with his poor attitude and (in my opinion) flawed character.

Do I feel they deserve the same rights I have? Damn skippy they do! They also deserve the same responsibilities too! I believe that we, as humans, have to treat our fellow humans the same way we want to be treated, regardless of ethnicity, sexual orientation or financial status. We should judge people by their character and their actions.

[OBIWAN]

"Two girls doing it isnt gay...its a show"

I also subscribe to the Al Bundy theory

Whatever happens between two women is fine

As long as a man gets to watch

[Redworm]

9mm: I agree with pretty much everything you said except for the bit about General Pace's comments. sure, he can hold whatever views he wishes but in that comment he was inferring that military policy should be dictated based on the perceived morality of homosexuality.

I do agree that the parades are just an excuse to party but then again so is the St Paddy's Day parade. And Rosie needs to go to a range with a Pink Pistols chapter or something, maybe then she'll realize.....oh wait, she's rich enough to afford 24 hour protection by fully armed guards. Her life is important enough to defend with firearms but ours are not.

[Wildalaska]

Right on 9mm!!!

WildpowertoyouAlaska

[JuanCarlos]

I really couldnt care less about gay marriage one way or the other, i have been in a ltr for more than 3 years, if all of a sudden gay marriage was deemed ok, would i want to run out and get married? nope. I dont need a piece of paper to validate how i feel and care for another person, and over half of todays marriages arent worth the paper the license is printed on.

Well, a lot of times getting married isn't just about validating feelings, but also about the legal rights and privileges it provides. At which point I suppose civil unions would do just as well. I guess the first-amendment fan in me sees how hung up the conservative Christians get on legal recognition of "marriage," and doesn't want to let them define it. Again, if a church is willing to say two consenting adults are married, who is the state to say they aren't.

for instance the military guy giving his opinion on homosexuality. Thats his opinion, hes entitled to it, it doesnt bother me, i couldnt care less.

Except he's not some military guy, he's the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. His stance on DADT (and allowing gays to serve in general) can influence policy. And he made it obvious that his stance was based on his personal morals/"upbringing" rather than any rational argument based on benefits/drawbacks to the military.

Having seen a guy get the shaft from the DADT policy, I'm not a fan of it. He was a good soldier, and his sexual preferences didn't change that. Having the highest ranking officer in the entire US military basically confirm that the policy is based on bigotry...well, I can see how people might not be happy.

Also considering that some our allies over in Iraq and Afghanistan allow openly gay troops to serve there...well, calling our allied soldiers a bunch of immoral perverts in an interview given as the Chairmen of the Joint Chiefs of Staff isn't making America look too great either.


I'm with you on everything else. And thanks for the post.

[9mmsnoopy]

Redworm, while i am neutral on the marriage issue, i am very much in support of gays being allowed to serve in the military. Thank God that there are people, gay or straight who are willing to defend our country.

I just laugh at the excuses people will make as to why gays shouldnt be allowed to serve. I am quite sure that the gay men and women serving in Iraq right now are too busy worrying about doing thier jobs and surviving then they are about oggling over someone else in the shower or the person in the foxhole with them.

[OBIWAN]

"when exactly did you decide to be straight"

I always love when someone asks that question

When did I decide to follow the basic premise of virtually all of nature and be attracted to the opposite sex??

I am gonna say around age 10...I am a little fuzzy on the exact date but it was around then I decided girls weren't completely "yucky"

Juan Carlos.....I support gun ownership for everyone...not just gun owners

I don't look down on gays but I certainly don't look up to them either

I support states rights on the subject of same sex unions, etc...but yes...I would not vote to call it marriage

Incidently...I love my wife but looking back (or forward) I do not see any reason for us to be married other than to procreate

We would still be together because we love each other but that piece of paper is just that except for some of the legal ramifications of sharing parental responsibilities

Mostly because I see it ( gay marriage)as a potential dodge to get benefits for your buddy without any real downside or responsibility.

It is a lot about sharing entitlements and a little about avoiding inconvenience

I had a real good buddy that was like a brother to me near death in the hospital and I had to pretend we really were brothers even to find out if he was alive

But I was not gonna marry his sister (or him) so I could get visitation rights

That is IMHO just another sob story trotted out by those with an agenda

Normalization of that which is not normal

Notice I didn;t say bad, perverted, etc....but it is not normal

We had a parade one year....the gay pride group sued to get in

NAMBLA was right behind them (no pun intended) when they won

Slippery slope...maybe so

[Jart]

Here's one I don't see too often:

Get the .gov out of the marriage business altogether. No special rights, priveleges or responsibilities for married vs not married.

That way the whole issue dries up and blows away. There's nothing to be gained so gays lose nothing by not having a marriage recognized.

Private institutions, insurance and the like, will bend to market forces as they always have. Most already recognize "cohabitation" without additional qualifiers.




disclaimer: I'm a poster child for the so-called "marriage penalty". If my wife and I divorced, our total tax liability would drop.

[Eghad]

The fear of child rape which is usually homosexual in nature

Has there been any new research that shows this besides the study done by the Family Research Council which has been debunked as beng very subjective in nature and flawed?

So there are very little or no heterosexual pedophiles? what about women pedophiles? If gays are a small percentage of our population do they commit 100% of the child sex crimes.

[Redworm]

When did I decide to follow the basic premise of virtually all of nature and be attracted to the opposite sex??

Again, homosexuality is perfectly natural and occurs in many other species.

Mostly because I see it ( gay marriage)as a potential dodge to get benefits for your buddy without any real downside or responsibility.

Same goes for straight marriage. Or are you under the impression that men and women cannot have platonic relationships?

That is IMHO just another sob story trotted out by those with an agenda

Yea and that agenda is to be treated equally. Simple as that.

Normalization of that which is not normal

Albinos are not "normal", we don't have laws against them getting married. Considering their percentage of the human population Jews are not "normal" either. In fact there are more gays in the world than those of the Jewish faith - which is a concept granted by birth, btw - yet there is nothing wrong with "normalizing" their marriages.

[Redworm]

So there are very little or no heterosexual pedophiles? what about women pedophiles?

Considering all the female teachers that have been caught with their students...hrm

[Fremmer]

For those of you who assert that there is a Federal Constitutional Right providing a right of marriage between persons of the same sex, please quote the specific language of the Constitution providing for the same. And I'd also like a cite to a Federal Court case that cites the provision of the Federal Constitution which grants that right.

For those of you who assert that there is a fundamental Federal Constitutional Right providing a right of marriage between persons of the same sex, please cite a Federal case recognizing the same.

I don't think either exist. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll get the requested quotes/cites if so.

In stark contrast, two separate Federal Courts have recognized an individual Constitutional Right to keep and bear arms. So, contrary to Juan's assertion, one can recognize a Constitutional Right to keep and bear arms, while at the same time refusing to recognize a non-existant Constitutional Right held by persons of the same sex to enter the snare of matrimony.

[Eghad]

I dont need a piece of paper to validate how i feel and care for another person, and over half of todays marriages arent worth the paper the license is printed on.

They may not be worth the paper to people. That little piece of paper can make the difference in who gets what if you die and your partner is still alive with no will. It makes a diffeence in what benefits your partner could apply for. Suppose you have a partner that stays home and takes care of the household shouldnt they be eligible for the same benefits as a spouse? I think gay couples should have all the benefits of married persons and all the problems of married folks too.

[Kreyzhorse]

I support gay marriage. I'm not a bleeding heart by any stretch, but I am for equality for all. With that being said, many companies give special benefits to gay couples unable to wed.

Before my wife and I were married, she was in between jobs but I was unable to place her on my health insurance because we were not married. However, if I was gay, all I would have had to do was write a letter stating we were in a relationship and we shared the same address or addresses and it was health insurance all around.

To me I was being held to a different set of standards than others because I was not gay. To me, its not fair or right. Everyone should be held accountable to the same rules.

Besides that, I really doubt that allowing gay people to get married is going to hurt anyone.

[Redworm]

For those of you who assert that there is a Federal Constitutional Right providing a right of marriage between persons of the same sex, please quote the specific language of the Constitution providing for the same. And I'd also like a cite to a Federal Court case that cites the provision of the Federal Constitution which grants that right.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

That not good enough?

And since when are rights granted? Since when do rights have to be spelled out letter for letter to exist? Do you have the right to connect to a worldwide network of computers? Do you have the right to own a car? Do you have the right to hop on one foot in your underwear singing "Rock The Casbah" in your living room?

Just because there's no amendment that says "Gays can get married" does not mean it's not a freedom that should be afforded to all.

Equal protection under the law.

[Redworm]

Before my wife and I were married, she was in between jobs but I was unable to place her on my health insurance because we were not married. However, if I was gay, all I would have had to do was write a letter stating we were in a relationship and we shared the same address or addresses and it was health insurance all around.

To me I was being held to a different set of standards than others because I was not gay. To me, its not fair or right. Everyone should be held accountable to the same rules.

Would your company have had that policy if gay employees had been able to marry?

[Playboypenguin]

gays are no less likely to have stable, commited, long lasting relationships than straights.

I personaly am in a committed 15yr relationship. I am 40 yrs old and have been with my partner since I was 25 and he was 23. The vast majority of married people cannot claim that since over 50% of all relationships end in divorce.

So there are very little or no heterosexual pedophiles?

I do not know where the original person that mentioned child molestation got his information (I can only assume it was a deep dark hole about 6" below the rear side of his belt) but when I worked for CPS in both Ohio and in Oregon the statistics showed that between 92-97% of all cases involved heterosexual sex(the vast majority of cases involving inter-family abuse). Taking into acount that 90-97% of the population is heterosexual (depending on what source you use to gauge the percentage of homosexuals), that means that hetero people are only a tiny bit more likely to be child molesters.

P.S. I am also an 8yr veteran of the US Army. I did my time, did my job, and at the time was one of the top 2% of advancing officers in military service.

[Playboypenguin]

I see no fundamental reason that polygamy cannot be allowed

While I personally find it kind of creepy and wonder why anyone would want to have to put up with more than one spouse I agree with the quote made by a wise man..."what a man, a woman, another man, a midget, and a goat do in the privacy of their own home is their own business."

If consenting adults want to have a group marriage, bring in 3rd or 4th people for casual sex, etc I am completely cool with it. It is not for me but that does not make it wrong.

The problem arises when you get these wacko religous weirdos that start taking 13 yr old brides, marrying their daughters or neices, and abusing children that make the whole lot look bad. Just like when a small number of gun owners shine a bad light on the rest of us.