P-H 61 carbine, good deal?

Tom2 · December 16, 2006, 06:28 PM

Just got a Parker Hale artillery carbine that looks unfired for 275$. The blue and case are 100%, the brass has a little patina, and the stock is nice. However there are a few tiny handling marks on it. Not suprised it has been banging around for several months at gunshows. And there is one feature, it appears that there was a split at the toe of the stock at one time that was reglued, but also has pins put in it like they do on arsenal repairs. Neatly done and not very visible. Looks like it was just setting around in a closet for years or something. Since the barrel says Parker Hale Birmingham England, is that any guarantee that it was a British made gun? It is serial 7XXX. No proofs visible above the woodline, but has the P-H round stock stamp. Thanks.

**4V50 Gary** · December 17, 2006, 01:55 PM

Even if the stock wasn't made in England, I think it's a good price. A musketoon is a pretty accurate weapon and for that price, I'd jump on it.

Tom2 · December 17, 2006, 05:12 PM

I emailed that Mr. Minshall, who seems to be the P-H expert, and he said from the serial, maybe made in 76. Well it does not look like it was made yesterday, the bronze is starting to get nicely patinated. Perhaps becoming an antique antique reproduction. I bought some 577 Minies for it, at the gunshow, but they look to me like the lead or mould could have been a bit hotter, not very sharpely cast. Guess I will give them a try. I used to have some nicely made Minies with a Zoli made Zouave I got in the 80's. I was quickly discouraged by the fact it keyholed everyone of them. Bullets were greased in the grooves. No one available at the time to help me work out what was wrong so I sold it. It had several problems too. Zoli was not making very good guns at that time. I have seen early Zouave repros that were made much nicer than that one was. And I have no idea if I have those better Minies stashed away, yet.

**4V50 Gary** · December 17, 2006, 08:32 PM

See if you can get the Parker Hale mould for it. It was made by RCBS (you might want to contact them to see if they'll make it again for you). I have a mould and it seems to work well.

Tom2 · December 18, 2006, 02:18 PM

Well I thought they only made a mould for the special sniper rifle that used Whitworths hexagonal bore. But I will look into that. I see from a 19th century book reprint that the British used and preferred swaged bullets instead of just as cast minies. That was when they were shooting at 600 or more yards with their Enfields. I am sure that this is not a long range rifle, but I suspect that these generic minies might not give the finest accuracy that can be had from the thing, even though they seem to be a good fit to the bore lands sized at .577. Probably voids inside them judging from what I see in the rear cavities. I still think it may be unfired-I cleaned and insp. the bore last night. Little brown or dark came out on the patches, just what you might expect from a steel bore stored dry for 30 years, but it looks shiny as can be inside.

**4V50 Gary** · December 18, 2006, 08:21 PM

The English had a 535 smooth sided bullet with a boxwood plug that they called the Pritchett Ball. The RCBS mold I have casts a convention minie with a hollow base for its expanding skirt.

Steve499 · December 19, 2006, 09:26 AM

Tom, e-mail me your address and I'll send you a few minies to try. I have a traditionally configured mold and a " trash can" mold. The latter has a thinner skirt and groups better from my Springfield. If either style works for you, I can give you the mold numbers so you know what to buy.

My rifle seems to be quite finicky about the bullets and charge weight it likes. Be prepared to spend some time at the bench.

Steve

December 16, 2006, 06:28 PM	#1
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	P-H 61 carbine, good deal? Just got a Parker Hale artillery carbine that looks unfired for 275$. The blue and case are 100%, the brass has a little patina, and the stock is nice. However there are a few tiny handling marks on it. Not suprised it has been banging around for several months at gunshows. And there is one feature, it appears that there was a split at the toe of the stock at one time that was reglued, but also has pins put in it like they do on arsenal repairs. Neatly done and not very visible. Looks like it was just setting around in a closet for years or something. Since the barrel says Parker Hale Birmingham England, is that any guarantee that it was a British made gun? It is serial 7XXX. No proofs visible above the woodline, but has the P-H round stock stamp. Thanks.

December 17, 2006, 01:55 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,850	Even if the stock wasn't made in England, I think it's a good price. A musketoon is a pretty accurate weapon and for that price, I'd jump on it. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 17, 2006, 05:12 PM	#3
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	OLd gun I emailed that Mr. Minshall, who seems to be the P-H expert, and he said from the serial, maybe made in 76. Well it does not look like it was made yesterday, the bronze is starting to get nicely patinated. Perhaps becoming an antique antique reproduction. I bought some 577 Minies for it, at the gunshow, but they look to me like the lead or mould could have been a bit hotter, not very sharpely cast. Guess I will give them a try. I used to have some nicely made Minies with a Zoli made Zouave I got in the 80's. I was quickly discouraged by the fact it keyholed everyone of them. Bullets were greased in the grooves. No one available at the time to help me work out what was wrong so I sold it. It had several problems too. Zoli was not making very good guns at that time. I have seen early Zouave repros that were made much nicer than that one was. And I have no idea if I have those better Minies stashed away, yet.

December 17, 2006, 08:32 PM	#4
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,850	See if you can get the Parker Hale mould for it. It was made by RCBS (you might want to contact them to see if they'll make it again for you). I have a mould and it seems to work well. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 18, 2006, 02:18 PM	#5
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	Bullets Well I thought they only made a mould for the special sniper rifle that used Whitworths hexagonal bore. But I will look into that. I see from a 19th century book reprint that the British used and preferred swaged bullets instead of just as cast minies. That was when they were shooting at 600 or more yards with their Enfields. I am sure that this is not a long range rifle, but I suspect that these generic minies might not give the finest accuracy that can be had from the thing, even though they seem to be a good fit to the bore lands sized at .577. Probably voids inside them judging from what I see in the rear cavities. I still think it may be unfired-I cleaned and insp. the bore last night. Little brown or dark came out on the patches, just what you might expect from a steel bore stored dry for 30 years, but it looks shiny as can be inside.

December 18, 2006, 08:21 PM	#6
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,850	The English had a 535 smooth sided bullet with a boxwood plug that they called the Pritchett Ball. The RCBS mold I have casts a convention minie with a hollow base for its expanding skirt. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

December 19, 2006, 09:26 AM	#7
Steve499 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Central Missouri Posts: 533	Tom, e-mail me your address and I'll send you a few minies to try. I have a traditionally configured mold and a " trash can" mold. The latter has a thinner skirt and groups better from my Springfield. If either style works for you, I can give you the mold numbers so you know what to buy. My rifle seems to be quite finicky about the bullets and charge weight it likes. Be prepared to spend some time at the bench. Steve