Luger clones? - Page 2

PzGren · April 14, 2024, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Is "an imbalance of springs" like having "an excess of vapors"???

a charming term, identifying an issue, but explaining nothing....

Really? How many relevant springs are there that can influence feeding and opening of the toggle? An intelligent deduction will lead to the answer.

**44 AMP** · April 14, 2024, 12:58 PM

I think you missed my point.

Counting springs that can influence feeding and opening of the toggle, I see three. Same number of springs that can influence the feeding and opening of the slide of a 1911A1.

And one of them in both guns is the magazine spring. If you count that...

And I'm not all that sure that the striker spring has any influence on the opening of the toggle. Closing, yes, I'd buy that.

micromontenegro · April 15, 2024, 01:24 PM

BTW, of course limpwristing is an operator error. As far as I know, no wrists -but a knee (toggle) in the Luger

Name it as you want it: the issue with the Luger and most shooters is that the frame must remain as close as stationary as possible until the toggle "breaks", otherwise it won't have the momentum needed to function properly.

I have witnessed this over and over in the range. The P08 is the next alley jams every couple of shots. Buddy asks what's wrong. I shoot it, and the gun runs flawlessly magazine afer maganize. It's all in the grip. The Luger does not forgive a loose grip.

tangolima · April 15, 2024, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micromontenegro

BTW, of course limpwristing is an operator error. As far as I know, no wrists -but a knee (toggle) in the Luger

Name it as you want it: the issue with the Luger and most shooters is that the frame must remain as close as stationary as possible until the toggle "breaks", otherwise it won't have the momentum needed to function properly.

I have witnessed this over and over in the range. The P08 is the next alley jams every couple of shots. Buddy asks what's wrong. I shoot it, and the gun runs flawlessly magazine afer maganize. It's all in the grip. The Luger does not forgive a loose grip.

Exactly what I meant.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

stinkeypete · April 15, 2024, 02:47 PM

I had a pair of beat-up non-collectable Lugers about 25 years ago. Took them to the indoor range.

Third shot, hot brass (which is ejected upwards) ricochet off the ceiling and bounced back down my shirt. HOT! HOT! HOT! OW!

Several hit my head, so I put on a hat. 50 rounds gone, I was done with Lugers. I got to shoot a box of ammo, take a couple apart, examine and clean... and... then I traded them for something else.

**44 AMP** · April 18, 2024, 01:46 AM

where, and how hard repeaters eject depends on the positions of the extractor and ejector in the breech face and the speed it is moving.

the positions of the extractor and ejector are constants, the speed of the slide or bolt is not. This can be very noticeable in guns with fixed ejectors, usually a bit less so in those with spring loaded ejectors, but it is there, only the degree of difference varies.

My Dad's Colt Govt Model .45, with certain loads would drop empties into your shirt pocket or onto the brim of your hat (which was a good reason to wear one) but other loads kicked out about 1-2 O'clock relative to the shooter.

One of my Sig guns will literally roll rounds out of the ejection port and they fall right at your feet with light loads and heavy loads will kick the empties forward of the shooter an astounding distance.

Semi auto rifles do it to. Different loads eject to different spots.

When I was in basic training we had a guy get killed on the range because of hot brass, Army regs and lack of proper equipment.

Range was the one with "foxholes" for shooting positions. Trainee was left handed, and shot from the left shoulder. The cheap plastic brass deflector made for left hand M16 shooters were "not available". Army regs required the top shirt button to be open. A fired round (VERY HOT) went down his shirt, and he dropped the rifle, which landed in the hole butt down, muzzle up, it fired and the bullet hit him underneath his chin, killing him.

Not sure what the results of the investigation were, but every company in the training battalion had boxes of those brass deflectors available within a couple days. Sad it had to come from that, but you know that's how it works. Short on saftey gear? Never a problem, until someone gets hurt, or killed...

April 14, 2024, 12:58 PM	#27
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,910	I think you missed my point. Counting springs that can influence feeding and opening of the toggle, I see three. Same number of springs that can influence the feeding and opening of the slide of a 1911A1. And one of them in both guns is the magazine spring. If you count that... And I'm not all that sure that the striker spring has any influence on the opening of the toggle. Closing, yes, I'd buy that. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 15, 2024, 02:47 PM	#30
stinkeypete Senior Member Join Date: July 22, 2010 Location: Madison, Wisconsin Posts: 1,293	I had a pair of beat-up non-collectable Lugers about 25 years ago. Took them to the indoor range. Third shot, hot brass (which is ejected upwards) ricochet off the ceiling and bounced back down my shirt. HOT! HOT! HOT! OW! Several hit my head, so I put on a hat. 50 rounds gone, I was done with Lugers. I got to shoot a box of ammo, take a couple apart, examine and clean... and... then I traded them for something else. __________________ My book "The Pheasant Hunter's Action Adventure Cookbook" is now on Amazon. Tall tales, hunting tips, butchering from bird to the freezer, and recipes.

April 18, 2024, 01:46 AM	#31
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,910	where, and how hard repeaters eject depends on the positions of the extractor and ejector in the breech face and the speed it is moving. the positions of the extractor and ejector are constants, the speed of the slide or bolt is not. This can be very noticeable in guns with fixed ejectors, usually a bit less so in those with spring loaded ejectors, but it is there, only the degree of difference varies. My Dad's Colt Govt Model .45, with certain loads would drop empties into your shirt pocket or onto the brim of your hat (which was a good reason to wear one) but other loads kicked out about 1-2 O'clock relative to the shooter. One of my Sig guns will literally roll rounds out of the ejection port and they fall right at your feet with light loads and heavy loads will kick the empties forward of the shooter an astounding distance. Semi auto rifles do it to. Different loads eject to different spots. When I was in basic training we had a guy get killed on the range because of hot brass, Army regs and lack of proper equipment. Range was the one with "foxholes" for shooting positions. Trainee was left handed, and shot from the left shoulder. The cheap plastic brass deflector made for left hand M16 shooters were "not available". Army regs required the top shirt button to be open. A fired round (VERY HOT) went down his shirt, and he dropped the rifle, which landed in the hole butt down, muzzle up, it fired and the bullet hit him underneath his chin, killing him. Not sure what the results of the investigation were, but every company in the training battalion had boxes of those brass deflectors available within a couple days. Sad it had to come from that, but you know that's how it works. Short on saftey gear? Never a problem, until someone gets hurt, or killed... __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

April 15, 2024, 01:24 PM	#28
micromontenegro Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2010 Posts: 647	BTW, of course limpwristing is an operator error. As far as I know, no wrists -but a knee (toggle) in the Luger Name it as you want it: the issue with the Luger and most shooters is that the frame must remain as close as stationary as possible until the toggle "breaks", otherwise it won't have the momentum needed to function properly. I have witnessed this over and over in the range. The P08 is the next alley jams every couple of shots. Buddy asks what's wrong. I shoot it, and the gun runs flawlessly magazine afer maganize. It's all in the grip. The Luger does not forgive a loose grip.