Dragunov SVD; Is the Romanian version that bad? - Page 2

LuckyInKentucky · March 27, 2005, 04:05 PM

Laugh all you want ... the fact of the matter is ... there are too many here who have taken this to the level of "Personal Attacks" and that is against forum rules.

Secondly, I would be glad to shoot against anyone here, but only for cash money. That is the only way. I am not going to waste my time traveling somewhere just to prove my abilities to someone. If I am going to travel, I want it to be for money and nothing else. Sorry, but I have wasted my time and money enough in the past on matches that just give you recognition or 'bragging rights'.

Personally, I have been quite offended by some of the comments on this board. Therefore, " Put your money where your mouth is!" I will put down $5K on any one given match. The buy-in is at $5K per shooter, and anyone who does not participate, can spectate

I'm honestly sick and tired of people making comments on my abilities, when they know that they can't do it so they might as well laugh at someone who can. Laugh all you want boys, because this is your chance. Take it or leave it and shut up! The details can be worked out later.

Gewehr98 · March 27, 2005, 05:12 PM

forecerecon.org doesn't show up on the web? However, forcerecon.com is a real website.

Bogie, got your Stolle Panda and a spare $5K ready? I'll invite Norm and Rocky Chandler on my own nickel, too.

We got us a live one.

Powderman · March 27, 2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Personally, I have been quite offended by some of the comments on this board. Therefore, " Put your money where your mouth is!" I will put down $5K on any one given match. The buy-in is at $5K per shooter, and anyone who does not participate, can spectate

I'll take a piece of that action, too. When and where? Name the place.

Although, as just a simple ex-Army grunt, I can't be expected to shoot too good--right?

Also, my son could use some extra cash. He can hit the broadside of a barn, most of the time--at least, that's what they told him at boot camp at MCRD San Diego/Camp Pendleton, CA, when he earned his expert badge with an M16A2.

Oh, by the way, he's never heard of shooting 1000 yards for normal qualification in the Corps. And, he is active duty. I think he'd like to meet you.

Oh--your name isn't Drew in Tx on another board, is it? Just curious.

LuckyInKentucky · March 27, 2005, 06:51 PM

I don't mean to burst your bubble there Pops, but I don't know of many Marines who haven't gotten their Expert Badge with the M16A2. I'm talkin' about more than shootin' pea shooters at 500 Meters. I'm talkin' about shootin' the real stuff. Like most or all of the MSSRs.

I would be interested to know if his MOS was just 0311 ( Infantry/Combat Rifleman) or is he something else.

For instance my MOS was 0321/5711 or Force Reconnasaince Marine / NBC Specialist. When I 're-upped' after 8 years I was selected by my former RPC to go into SCout/Sniper training. Then my MOS was 8541.

So unless your son knows someone in 'The Field' he probably hasn't encountered the experiences, nor have the knowledge that I do. Not to extinguish his abilities as a Marine, because we are all special. For him to say that it doesn't happen in Basic, then that is the truth. Ask him about the Scout/ Snipers and I guarantee that he will change his tone.

Powderman · March 27, 2005, 11:02 PM

Recon Marine, huh?

What rifle did you use for your Q-course? Just curious.

What ranges do you shoot at in Scout/Sniper school?

Do you use optics, and if so, which ones?

And, just curious--what did you qualify as in boot? Also, where did you go to boot camp?

Again, just curious.

And, where do you want to meet for this competition? Still want to make some extra cash.

And, just an observation--all of the snake-eaters, long rangers and lurps that I know and have known--and I have made the acquaintances of a few--usually do not trumpet their "superior" knowledge or their experiences.

Quote:

So unless your son knows someone in 'The Field' he probably hasn't encountered the experiences, nor have the knowledge that I do.

By the way, my son just finished 8 months of kicking doors in Fallujah. Where were you deployed?

thralduro · March 27, 2005, 11:18 PM

hehehe.....this thread is hillarious.

LuckyinKentucky....do you have a covert sniper I.D. card?

**Rich Lucibella** · March 27, 2005, 11:26 PM

Lucky-
You're on: $5,000.00
- You picked the price; I pick the Place: Rifles Only-Kingsville, Texas
- You pick the time; I pick the range: 600 Meters
- You pick the course of fire and scoring; I pick the date: One week from Wednesday (that'll be April 6th)

I'll announce my shooter the day of the match.

Put up or shut up....NOW. And since you chose to post this challenge at TFL, your Membership here is also subject to forfeit in the event of a no show or refusal.

First step in the acceptance is to post your real name and address.

Rich Lucibella
Publisher
SWAT Magazine
5011 N. Ocean Blvd
Suite 5
Ocean Ridge. FL 33435

fed168 · March 27, 2005, 11:39 PM

Lucky,

Please post you credentials and where you attended training, and who instructed the courses.

Don't you have it the other way around? Last time I looked military ammo came in lots (even for the riflemen). Seems easier now to match the load to the gun. Who did your ammo? AMU, Precision Wpns Co? Just curious.

What was the round designation?

Bogie · March 27, 2005, 11:44 PM

Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah...

I most DEFINITELY want a piece of this one! Heck, maybe I'll tell Tony about it - I'm going to be seeing him and Faye for a day next week before I go to Knob Creek.

Where are you in Kentucky? I went to Eastern, but now live in St. Louis.

I plan on shooting a .243 caliber rifle. Talked to Tooley a coupla weeks ago, and I could possibly run up and borrow a larger one tho... Maybe one of Baer's chamberings...

What range/distance? Since you've got home field advantage, I assume I can have a few shots to test scope, ensure that I'm on paper. I'll bring a rangefinder just to confirm things.

Chuck "Bogie" Bogardus
street address withheld at this point
Wentzville, MO 63385
[email protected]

Oh, and how 'bout them 'Cats...

Abby · March 27, 2005, 11:47 PM

Did I ever tell y'all about that time I shot that squirrel at 235 yards? Yeah...he was just sitting out in a field, but he was causing my dog (a German Shepherd, trained by a government agency that I'm not allowed to name in the secret tactics of Squirrel Detection) to bark.

So I grabbed my Stevens single-shot .22. Now, it was nighttime and I didn't want to wake the neighbors, so I knew it had to be ONE SHOT, ONE KILL!!! I busted out some CCI .22 shorts. It would also have to be quiet...

The wind was blowing a little (did I mention this was during Hurricane Francis?). Fortunately, the Secret Agency that trained my dog also performed a special surgery on her ears, making them double as RANGE FLAGS!! From the way one of her blew left, I knew what adjustments to make.

I gently tapped my semi-moble front sight post to adjust for the gusts...I assume a good, stable, prone position. I lined up my sights, and just as the winds blew a tree down in front of me, squeezed the trigger.

The gentle "pop" of the .22 short reminded me of the gentle "pop" of the silenced .22 I'd used when I was tasked (by the CIA) to assisinate Castro. Alas, Castro had moved at the last moment. The squirrel did not. When I reached the small, furry body, laying in the road and the rain, I saw that I'd taken him through the left eye. This was no surprise, of course, as I had called my shot and marked it in my high-speed-low-drag data book before even leaving my yard.

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

[abby runs from the room, ducking to avoid being hit with thrown objects, trying to escape before Rich issues her an invite, too]

Tim R · March 27, 2005, 11:53 PM

Gee Lucky, you missed your calling. I would expect to see you at Camp Perry this year. You should be a shoe in for the Wimbleton.

Bogie · March 27, 2005, 11:55 PM

You know something?

I bet I know a GIRL who could whup his butt...

Is she even old enough to drink yet?

**Rich Lucibella** · March 27, 2005, 11:57 PM

Ease up, ALL.

TFL Policies against personal attacks apply to EVERYONE on this Forum; and we take those Policies seriously. A "challenge" has been made and met. Let's give Lucky a chance to respond appropriately.
Rich

thralduro · March 27, 2005, 11:59 PM

You won't hear a peep out of me.

Bogie · March 28, 2005, 12:03 AM

Rich - don't take all his money - leave some for me... On the 6th, I'm meeting with Tony, then on the 7th, I'm driving to Knob Creek... If you can send the fellow north to the Creek, I can make sure I bring one of lowly untactical rifles...

**Rich Lucibella** · March 28, 2005, 12:07 AM

Bogie-
Alternative dates are viable pending Lucky's input.
Rich

**JohnKSa** · March 28, 2005, 12:37 AM

Maybe you should make the distance 350 yards and have him bring his 170gr 45/70 bullet loads and his 1895. Apparently he's getting submoa groups at that distance with this combo.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=166079

RugerOldArmy · March 28, 2005, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Fortunately, the Secret Agency that trained my dog also performed a special surgery on her ears, making them double as RANGE FLAGS!!

Damn! I want my dog trained like that! One ear is usually down too. Good story Abby...you should write more!

El Rojo · March 28, 2005, 01:04 AM

Classic! Rich doesn't mess around.

DAVID NANCARROW · March 28, 2005, 01:47 AM

My goodness-sure is a lot of 5K offers flyin around here! Hope none of you have to call Di-tech!

Lucky-I'm just an old dog face without much money, but if you ever make it thru big D, loser buys dinner?

Tomac · March 28, 2005, 08:58 AM

A Finnish military sniper said both the PSL & 7.62x54 Drag are capable of equal accuracy. Yes, they were designed for the DM role. Howerver, here in the US the lack of good lightweight match ammo holds them back in the accuracy dept. The .308 NDM-86 is another thing altogether. With 168gr match ammo it's capable of surprising accuracy. I'm not the greatest shot but with a cheap Russian 8x scope & Georgia Arms "Canned Heat" budget match ammo my personal 4-shot ctc group at 100yds is .44" (see pic), my best 3-shot ctc is .24" and my best 3-shot at 500m is 4.5" (see pic). David Fortier has reported 3" groups at 600yds.
Tomac

Sarge · March 28, 2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

This one time at band camp I shot sub 1/2moa at 900 meters with a wet roll of toilet paper and a trombone......

That has got to be the hardest I ever laughed at anything I've seen on the Internet. Cheers, bro-

itgoesboom · March 28, 2005, 12:52 PM

So LIK is claiming to be a Force Recon Marine, huh?

Maybe someone should contact Pat Rogers, and see what he thinks of these claims.

I think that he of all people would be intrested in meeting someone claiming to be a Force Recon Marine, and making outrageous claims like these.

I.G.B.

Jart · March 28, 2005, 01:17 PM

Let it never be said that this forum isn't educational.

The challange acceptance named a place I hadn't heard of. A little rooting about on the internet and this turns up: RiflesOnly

500 yard moving target range

Looks like a "must do" when visiting relations in Corpus this summer. Although my first priority will be getting reasonable groups out of the (seldom used) Sendero that's been gathering dust in my safe. We'll save the moving targets for a later visit.

Thanks Rich!

Sarge · March 28, 2005, 01:43 PM

I've known a couple of Recon Marines, and they were generally quiet, reserved individuals, who knew what they could do if they had to- and didn't need to prove it to anybody.

On a side note, a few years ago I took a really good-shooting 78 Remington in .30-06, and carefully-constructed handloads using Sierra's 168 grian match bullet & H4895 powder, and played with them at a known distance of 880 yards. I found that if I did everything perfectly, and the wind didn't pick up after I fired, I could just about keep 70% of them on a white, 5-gallon plastic bucket at that distance. Let the wind change, the sun go behind the clouds, or any number of variables occur- and I'd miss. Not by much now mind you, but I'd miss just the same.

I don't claim to be Carlos Hathcock the second- but that must be one hell of a Dragonov.

March 27, 2005, 04:05 PM	#26
LuckyInKentucky Junior member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Hills of Kentucky Posts: 35	Laugh all you want ... the fact of the matter is ... there are too many here who have taken this to the level of "Personal Attacks" and that is against forum rules. Secondly, I would be glad to shoot against anyone here, but only for cash money. That is the only way. I am not going to waste my time traveling somewhere just to prove my abilities to someone. If I am going to travel, I want it to be for money and nothing else. Sorry, but I have wasted my time and money enough in the past on matches that just give you recognition or 'bragging rights'. Personally, I have been quite offended by some of the comments on this board. Therefore, " Put your money where your mouth is!" I will put down $5K on any one given match. The buy-in is at $5K per shooter, and anyone who does not participate, can spectate I'm honestly sick and tired of people making comments on my abilities, when they know that they can't do it so they might as well laugh at someone who can. Laugh all you want boys, because this is your chance. Take it or leave it and shut up! The details can be worked out later. Last edited by LuckyInKentucky; March 27, 2005 at 04:05 PM. Reason: spelling

March 27, 2005, 05:12 PM	#27
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	How come... forecerecon.org doesn't show up on the web? However, forcerecon.com is a real website. Bogie, got your Stolle Panda and a spare $5K ready? I'll invite Norm and Rocky Chandler on my own nickel, too. We got us a live one. __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

March 27, 2005, 11:18 PM	#31
thralduro Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Texas DFW area Posts: 83	hehehe.....this thread is hillarious. LuckyinKentucky....do you have a covert sniper I.D. card? __________________ Do your part for the 2nd....Join: http://www.leaa.org/ http://www.nra.org/

March 27, 2005, 11:26 PM	#32
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Lucky- You're on: $5,000.00 - You picked the price; I pick the Place: Rifles Only-Kingsville, Texas - You pick the time; I pick the range: 600 Meters - You pick the course of fire and scoring; I pick the date: One week from Wednesday (that'll be April 6th) I'll announce my shooter the day of the match. Put up or shut up....NOW. And since you chose to post this challenge at TFL, your Membership here is also subject to forfeit in the event of a no show or refusal. First step in the acceptance is to post your real name and address. Rich Lucibella Publisher SWAT Magazine 5011 N. Ocean Blvd Suite 5 Ocean Ridge. FL 33435 __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

March 27, 2005, 11:44 PM	#34
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah... I most DEFINITELY want a piece of this one! Heck, maybe I'll tell Tony about it - I'm going to be seeing him and Faye for a day next week before I go to Knob Creek. Where are you in Kentucky? I went to Eastern, but now live in St. Louis. I plan on shooting a .243 caliber rifle. Talked to Tooley a coupla weeks ago, and I could possibly run up and borrow a larger one tho... Maybe one of Baer's chamberings... What range/distance? Since you've got home field advantage, I assume I can have a few shots to test scope, ensure that I'm on paper. I'll bring a rangefinder just to confirm things. Chuck "Bogie" Bogardus street address withheld at this point Wentzville, MO 63385 [email protected] Oh, and how 'bout them 'Cats... __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

March 27, 2005, 06:51 PM	#29
LuckyInKentucky Junior member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Hills of Kentucky Posts: 35	I don't mean to burst your bubble there Pops, but I don't know of many Marines who haven't gotten their Expert Badge with the M16A2. I'm talkin' about more than shootin' pea shooters at 500 Meters. I'm talkin' about shootin' the real stuff. Like most or all of the MSSRs. I would be interested to know if his MOS was just 0311 ( Infantry/Combat Rifleman) or is he something else. For instance my MOS was 0321/5711 or Force Reconnasaince Marine / NBC Specialist. When I 're-upped' after 8 years I was selected by my former RPC to go into SCout/Sniper training. Then my MOS was 8541. So unless your son knows someone in 'The Field' he probably hasn't encountered the experiences, nor have the knowledge that I do. Not to extinguish his abilities as a Marine, because we are all special. For him to say that it doesn't happen in Basic, then that is the truth. Ask him about the Scout/ Snipers and I guarantee that he will change his tone.

March 27, 2005, 11:39 PM	#33
fed168 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2000 Posts: 1,040	Lucky, Please post you credentials and where you attended training, and who instructed the courses. Don't you have it the other way around? Last time I looked military ammo came in lots (even for the riflemen). Seems easier now to match the load to the gun. Who did your ammo? AMU, Precision Wpns Co? Just curious. What was the round designation?

March 27, 2005, 11:47 PM	#35
Abby Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2004 Posts: 139	Did I ever tell y'all about that time I shot that squirrel at 235 yards? Yeah...he was just sitting out in a field, but he was causing my dog (a German Shepherd, trained by a government agency that I'm not allowed to name in the secret tactics of Squirrel Detection) to bark. So I grabbed my Stevens single-shot .22. Now, it was nighttime and I didn't want to wake the neighbors, so I knew it had to be ONE SHOT, ONE KILL!!! I busted out some CCI .22 shorts. It would also have to be quiet... The wind was blowing a little (did I mention this was during Hurricane Francis?). Fortunately, the Secret Agency that trained my dog also performed a special surgery on her ears, making them double as RANGE FLAGS!! From the way one of her blew left, I knew what adjustments to make. I gently tapped my semi-moble front sight post to adjust for the gusts...I assume a good, stable, prone position. I lined up my sights, and just as the winds blew a tree down in front of me, squeezed the trigger. The gentle "pop" of the .22 short reminded me of the gentle "pop" of the silenced .22 I'd used when I was tasked (by the CIA) to assisinate Castro. Alas, Castro had moved at the last moment. The squirrel did not. When I reached the small, furry body, laying in the road and the rain, I saw that I'd taken him through the left eye. This was no surprise, of course, as I had called my shot and marked it in my high-speed-low-drag data book before even leaving my yard. Sorry. Couldn't help myself. [abby runs from the room, ducking to avoid being hit with thrown objects, trying to escape before Rich issues her an invite, too]

March 27, 2005, 11:53 PM	#36
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	Gee Lucky, you missed your calling. I would expect to see you at Camp Perry this year. You should be a shoe in for the Wimbleton. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

March 27, 2005, 11:55 PM	#37
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	You know something? I bet I know a GIRL who could whup his butt... Is she even old enough to drink yet? __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

March 27, 2005, 11:57 PM	#38
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	*Ease up, ALL.* TFL Policies against personal attacks apply to EVERYONE on this Forum; and we take those Policies seriously. A "challenge" has been made and met. Let's give Lucky a chance to respond appropriately. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

March 27, 2005, 11:59 PM	#39
thralduro Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Texas DFW area Posts: 83	You won't hear a peep out of me. __________________ Do your part for the 2nd....Join: http://www.leaa.org/ http://www.nra.org/

March 28, 2005, 12:03 AM	#40
Bogie Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: Job hunting on the road... Posts: 3,827	Rich - don't take all his money - leave some for me... On the 6th, I'm meeting with Tony, then on the 7th, I'm driving to Knob Creek... If you can send the fellow north to the Creek, I can make sure I bring one of lowly untactical rifles... __________________ Job hunting, but helping a friend out at www.vikingmachineusa.com - and learning the finer aspects of becoming a precision machinist. And making the world's greatest bottle openers!

March 28, 2005, 12:07 AM	#41
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Bogie- Alternative dates are viable pending Lucky's input. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

March 28, 2005, 12:37 AM	#42
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 25,005	Maybe you should make the distance 350 yards and have him bring his 170gr 45/70 bullet loads and his 1895. Apparently he's getting submoa groups at that distance with this combo. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=166079

March 28, 2005, 01:04 AM	#44
El Rojo Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 2,057	Classic! Rich doesn't mess around. __________________ Get Some!

March 28, 2005, 01:47 AM	#45
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	My goodness-sure is a lot of 5K offers flyin around here! Hope none of you have to call Di-tech! Lucky-I'm just an old dog face without much money, but if you ever make it thru big D, loser buys dinner?

March 28, 2005, 08:58 AM	#46
Tomac Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2001 Location: Caldwell, Idaho Posts: 511	A Finnish military sniper said both the PSL & 7.62x54 Drag are capable of equal accuracy. Yes, they were designed for the DM role. Howerver, here in the US the lack of good lightweight match ammo holds them back in the accuracy dept. The .308 NDM-86 is another thing altogether. With 168gr match ammo it's capable of surprising accuracy. I'm not the greatest shot but with a cheap Russian 8x scope & Georgia Arms "Canned Heat" budget match ammo my personal 4-shot ctc group at 100yds is .44" (see pic), my best 3-shot ctc is .24" and my best 3-shot at 500m is 4.5" (see pic). David Fortier has reported 3" groups at 600yds. Tomac

March 28, 2005, 12:52 PM	#48
itgoesboom Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2002 Posts: 223	So LIK is claiming to be a Force Recon Marine, huh? Maybe someone should contact Pat Rogers, and see what he thinks of these claims. I think that he of all people would be intrested in meeting someone claiming to be a Force Recon Marine, and making outrageous claims like these. I.G.B.

March 28, 2005, 01:17 PM	#49
Jart Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Grand Prairie, TX Posts: 1,647	Let it never be said that this forum isn't educational. The challange acceptance named a place I hadn't heard of. A little rooting about on the internet and this turns up: RiflesOnly 500 yard moving target range Looks like a "must do" when visiting relations in Corpus this summer. Although my first priority will be getting reasonable groups out of the (seldom used) Sendero that's been gathering dust in my safe. We'll save the moving targets for a later visit. Thanks Rich!

March 28, 2005, 01:43 PM	#50
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	I've known a couple of Recon Marines, and they were generally quiet, reserved individuals, who knew what they could do if they had to- and didn't need to prove it to anybody. On a side note, a few years ago I took a really good-shooting 78 Remington in .30-06, and carefully-constructed handloads using Sierra's 168 grian match bullet & H4895 powder, and played with them at a known distance of 880 yards. I found that if I did everything perfectly, and the wind didn't pick up after I fired, I could just about keep 70% of them on a white, 5-gallon plastic bucket at that distance. Let the wind change, the sun go behind the clouds, or any number of variables occur- and I'd miss. Not by much now mind you, but I'd miss just the same. I don't claim to be Carlos Hathcock the second- but that must be one hell of a Dragonov. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.