Dragunov SVD; Is the Romanian version that bad? - Page 4

The Body Bagger · March 30, 2005, 09:22 AM

10k is not worth it in travel alone?!?!?! Are you kidding us? Don't you know you're Lucky? You're in Kentucky, and the range is in Texas. I'd make that drive in heartbeat if I was half as good as you! Come on Lucky, don't let us down man, we're all pulling for you buddy! A one v one shoot is fine, you can do it! Bring the Draganov, if not I'll let you use my slide trombone.

OF · March 30, 2005, 09:42 AM

You guys are too funny. Offer him a million, Rich, why screw around?

- Gabe

PS: I predict that there is no way in hell that this clown is going to post his real name on this forum. The brick wall has been reached.

**Mal H** · March 30, 2005, 10:13 AM

Whoa there, Lucky! I was under the impression that you were going to use your $3500 Dragunov Tigre in the upcoming match. Remember? The Drag with which you shot the 1-1/2" to 2" groups at 800 Meters? Since you now want to use your Dakota, can I make the obvious assumption that you can get even better long-range groups with it than you can with the Dragunov?

**Rich Lucibella** · March 30, 2005, 10:17 AM

Gabe-
I don't have a million to gamble with. I can raise the $50K, though. I'm certain Lucky has that kinda money handy. All Snake Eaters have war chests, "just in case".
Rich

Powderman · March 30, 2005, 11:14 AM

To Lucky....not that you'll answer, but just an objective observation...

There are all kinds of people on this board. I have found it to be a community of the nicest folks anywhere. The High Road also has a good group of folks, as does the 1911 Forum.

We all talk among ourselves, and exchange knowledge and information. No one claims expertise in any subject field, or tries to be the boss of all--we simply share each other's experience, and ask each other's advice.

None of us are experts in EVERYTHING. Frequently, there have been people who have never fired a gun in their lives who have posted here. Advice has been given, and accepted, and everyone is better for the experience.

Had you posted here as a person with little or no experience, EVERYONE would have been falling all over themselves to help you.

As it is, you made specious claims to people who know better. Don't know why, but you did.

(Here's a suggestion....when you see someone trotting out a rifle built on a Stolle Panda action, sit down, grab a spotting scope and watch--because you are about to see some REAL shooting!)

Now, instead of trying to help you, you have arrayed yourself against most of the people in this post. Some have BTDT, and have the scars to prove it. There are lots of snakeeaters in this thread, and prior service or present military. There are some people here who actually shoot for a living. And, then there's your garden variety po-po, too.

You, sir, have compromised your credibility and your integrity. Please don't bother trying to salvage the claims you have made. I'll call a spade a spade--you are talking to people who know better.

I believe that the last chance you have to salvage anything from this whole affair is to come clean. Post your real name, admit the errors, and start fresh. Most of the guys and girls here are the forgiving sort....well, most, anyway.

This is not a personal attack; it is similar to what I do when I'm talking to people, called a "positive confrontation". I think it's a last chance to own up.

How about it?

The Body Bagger · March 30, 2005, 12:20 PM

Quote:

I believe that the last chance you have to salvage anything from this whole affair is to come clean. Post your real name, admit the errors, and start fresh. Most of the guys and girls here are the forgiving sort....

I'll admit it, My name is Bill and I've never shot anything nor even handled a real firearm. I am however a musician in a one man band.....please forgive me.

buzz_knox · March 30, 2005, 12:38 PM

Remember that suggestion about getting Pat Rogers involved in this? I didn't think it was worth it, but now I realize that it is: Pat likes a good joke.

edm1 · March 30, 2005, 12:46 PM

Heck, I'd probably drive there just because it would be fun to shoot with some of the folks here. I'm sure I'd learn something.

Handy · March 30, 2005, 01:23 PM

This all seems like great fun, but I'm still just wondering how you get a semiauto to produce 1.5" groups at 800 yards, even bolted to a tank.

**Rich Lucibella** · March 30, 2005, 01:30 PM

Handy-
Same way you get a Ruger 10-22 to shoot half minute at 200 yards or a 170 Grain 45-70 to shoot a minute at 300 yards. You simply use your keyboard.

Rich

cracked butt · March 30, 2005, 03:04 PM

I've been following this thread for the last couple of days, looks like you guys git LiK by the short hairs. Moral of the story: don't screw with the people from TFL.

**Mal H** · March 30, 2005, 04:20 PM

To mmalloy27 -

Did you ever in your wildest dreams think your thread would turn into the match of the century?

DigMe · March 30, 2005, 04:27 PM

Don't let Lucky supply his own shooter too or he might just bring Paul Bunyan, and no range has the room for him!

brad cook

Gewehr98 · March 30, 2005, 05:29 PM

Quote:

You challenged any Member of this Forum to shoot you for money.

While I'm certain that's not what Rich meant, just how much money would be appropriate for that kind of job?

(Bogie and I are disqualified, anyways. My 6.5mm and his 6mm are smaller than LiK's .299" rule.)

griz · March 30, 2005, 05:42 PM

Hello LiK. I am apparently a pauper by the standards of this board. I also make no claims about being an expert marksman or even being better than you. But in case it's a time and travel issue that stops you from accepting Rich's challange, I'll offer you another. I'll meet you at your range, at your date and time, and simply watch you shoot as you claimed:

Quote:

With my Draganov Tiger, I am shooting around 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups at roughly 800 meters. That is about all that can be expected from a Soviet Block rifle.

So you bring that rifle, any ammo you want, and put five out of five shots in 3 inches at 800 MEASURED meters. The extra inch should give you a cushion in case it's windy. You don't have to tell me your name, but you do have to post the money before I drive to Kentucky. I'll put my money down as well. You can arrange any side bets with other members, which will hopefully make it worth your time for an afternoons shooting. I will only be able to cover 10K, 20 if there are no other takers. Does that sound OK? Or does your top secret military job pay so much that you can't afford to show off for an hour to earn $20,000? Let me know in time to apply for leave, I work a job in the REAL world.

**Rich Lucibella** · March 30, 2005, 06:59 PM

Griz-
I don't like the the idea of confusing things with multiple challenges....allows too much wiggle room for any of us who wish to jump from subject to subject, while answering none of the challenges.

However, if Lucky prefers this to the Texas Challenge, I'll fly up and take a piece of the action. He claims to have "some time" in April....he should certainly have the hour that's required.
- I'll drop the demand for his name.
- I'll wager an amount of his choice, up to the $50K previously committed.
- It must be in April, as I'm not willing to allow this cloud over his rep to continue.
- It must be with his Dragunov (5 warm-up shots allowed).
- I'll give him a whopping 5" at 800 meters for the A-Zone: that's 250% room for error, given his skill set.
- No call-off for weather....if it's sunny and calm, our problem. If there's a tornado, his problem. After all, the Warrior must adapt, improvise and overcome under all conditions.
- I'll arrange an escrow Attorney in Kentucky to accept the wager deposits.

Now there's two ways Lucky can make the requisite funds to demonstrate what he claims. My pledge as to the ramifications of forfeit remains, however.
Rich

griz · March 30, 2005, 07:08 PM

It doesn't sound like you took as such but just to be sure, I wasn't trying to step on any toes. I figured there would be multible takers so he would have the oportunity to earn a bundle. If it looks as if the second offer is interfering I will withdraw it. At any rate I suspect the same thing you do; no offer will be good enough for him.

thralduro · March 30, 2005, 07:53 PM

Dang,

All I have to say is that there are a couple of folks here who make a LOT more money than me.

I know this is a stupid question and a little off topic, but what is BTDT?

Al Thompson · March 30, 2005, 07:59 PM

BTDT - been there, done that...

Greenfurniture · March 30, 2005, 08:06 PM

If Texas is too much for Lucky we would gladly offer the use of Coal Creek Armory's private outdoor range here in Knoxville, which is a lot closer to Kentucky, for said competition. Heck, we might even be talked into having it catered complete with Tennessee bar-b-q and ice cold lemonade!

It's a good 1000+ range we use mostly for testing our creations, and there is ample parking and a really nice covered shooting positions.

We would also put up a brand new 5" stainless Colt Gunsite pistol for the winner, just to sweeten the pot a tad!

Don Gwinn · March 30, 2005, 08:30 PM

What a really, really bad place to bluff.

**JohnKSa** · March 30, 2005, 08:38 PM

You know, after watching the documentary on Hogzilla, I'm thinking that if someone videos this encounter, it would be far more interesting and entertaining.

I wonder if we could get someone who's really in the business to do a mini-documentary on it?

I'd pay for that DVD!

MassHunter2190 · March 30, 2005, 08:42 PM

Hah, i was just thinking the same thing as Don Gwinn

**Rich Lucibella** · March 30, 2005, 08:43 PM

Griz-
Zero offense taken. You're willing to put your money up; you have every right to make the offer.

I can't believe we're all talking as though this is actually gonna happen....me included.
Rich

Tommytrauma · March 30, 2005, 09:26 PM

Priceless. Absolutely priceless.

March 30, 2005, 09:22 AM	#76
The Body Bagger Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2004 Posts: 818	10k is not worth it in travel alone?!?!?! Are you kidding us? Don't you know you're Lucky? You're in Kentucky, and the range is in Texas. I'd make that drive in heartbeat if I was half as good as you! Come on Lucky, don't let us down man, we're all pulling for you buddy! A one v one shoot is fine, you can do it! Bring the Draganov, if not I'll let you use my slide trombone. __________________ Rock Out With Your Glock Out

March 30, 2005, 10:17 AM	#79
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Gabe- I don't have a million to gamble with. I can raise the $50K, though. I'm certain Lucky has that kinda money handy. All Snake Eaters have war chests, "just in case". Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

March 30, 2005, 11:14 AM	#80
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	To Lucky....not that you'll answer, but just an objective observation... There are all kinds of people on this board. I have found it to be a community of the nicest folks anywhere. The High Road also has a good group of folks, as does the 1911 Forum. We all talk among ourselves, and exchange knowledge and information. No one claims expertise in any subject field, or tries to be the boss of all--we simply share each other's experience, and ask each other's advice. None of us are experts in EVERYTHING. Frequently, there have been people who have never fired a gun in their lives who have posted here. Advice has been given, and accepted, and everyone is better for the experience. Had you posted here as a person with little or no experience, EVERYONE would have been falling all over themselves to help you. As it is, you made specious claims to people who know better. Don't know why, but you did. (Here's a suggestion....when you see someone trotting out a rifle built on a Stolle Panda action, sit down, grab a spotting scope and watch--because you are about to see some REAL shooting!) Now, instead of trying to help you, you have arrayed yourself against most of the people in this post. Some have BTDT, and have the scars to prove it. There are lots of snakeeaters in this thread, and prior service or present military. There are some people here who actually shoot for a living. And, then there's your garden variety po-po, too. You, sir, have compromised your credibility and your integrity. Please don't bother trying to salvage the claims you have made. I'll call a spade a spade--you are talking to people who know better. I believe that the last chance you have to salvage anything from this whole affair is to come clean. Post your real name, admit the errors, and start fresh. Most of the guys and girls here are the forgiving sort....well, most, anyway. This is not a personal attack; it is similar to what I do when I'm talking to people, called a "positive confrontation". I think it's a last chance to own up. How about it? __________________ Hiding in plain sight...

March 30, 2005, 01:30 PM	#85
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Handy- Same way you get a Ruger 10-22 to shoot half minute at 200 yards or a 170 Grain 45-70 to shoot a minute at 300 yards. You simply use your keyboard. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

March 30, 2005, 06:59 PM	#91
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Griz- I don't like the the idea of confusing things with multiple challenges....allows too much wiggle room for any of us who wish to jump from subject to subject, while answering none of the challenges. However, if Lucky prefers this to the Texas Challenge, I'll fly up and take a piece of the action. He claims to have "some time" in April....he should certainly have the hour that's required. - I'll drop the demand for his name. - I'll wager an amount of his choice, up to the $50K previously committed. - It must be in April, as I'm not willing to allow this cloud over his rep to continue. - It must be with his Dragunov (5 warm-up shots allowed). - I'll give him a whopping 5" at 800 meters for the A-Zone: that's 250% room for error, given his skill set. - No call-off for weather....if it's sunny and calm, our problem. If there's a tornado, his problem. After all, the Warrior must adapt, improvise and overcome under all conditions. - I'll arrange an escrow Attorney in Kentucky to accept the wager deposits. Now there's two ways Lucky can make the requisite funds to demonstrate what he claims. My pledge as to the ramifications of forfeit remains, however. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

March 30, 2005, 09:42 AM	#77
OF Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2000 Posts: 2,239	You guys are too funny. Offer him a million, Rich, why screw around? - Gabe PS: I predict that there is no way in hell that this clown is going to post his real name on this forum. The brick wall has been reached.

March 30, 2005, 10:13 AM	#78
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	Whoa there, Lucky! I was under the impression that you were going to use your $3500 Dragunov Tigre in the upcoming match. Remember? The Drag with which you shot the 1-1/2" to 2" groups at 800 Meters? Since you now want to use your Dakota, can I make the obvious assumption that you can get even better long-range groups with it than you can with the Dragunov?

March 30, 2005, 12:38 PM	#82
buzz_knox Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 1999 Location: Knoxville, in the Free State of Tennesse Posts: 4,190	Remember that suggestion about getting Pat Rogers involved in this? I didn't think it was worth it, but now I realize that it is: Pat likes a good joke.

March 30, 2005, 12:46 PM	#83
edm1 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Kentucky Posts: 111	Heck, I'd probably drive there just because it would be fun to shoot with some of the folks here. I'm sure I'd learn something.

March 30, 2005, 01:23 PM	#84
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	This all seems like great fun, but I'm still just wondering how you get a semiauto to produce 1.5" groups at 800 yards, even bolted to a tank.

March 30, 2005, 03:04 PM	#86
cracked butt Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2001 Location: southeastern wisconsin Posts: 537	I've been following this thread for the last couple of days, looks like you guys git LiK by the short hairs. Moral of the story: don't screw with the people from TFL.

March 30, 2005, 04:20 PM	#87
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	To mmalloy27 - Did you ever in your wildest dreams think your thread would turn into the match of the century?

March 30, 2005, 04:27 PM	#88
DigMe Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Posts: 22	Don't let Lucky supply his own shooter too or he might just bring Paul Bunyan, and no range has the room for him! brad cook

March 30, 2005, 07:08 PM	#92
griz Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2000 Location: Middle Peninsula, VA Posts: 1,588	It doesn't sound like you took as such but just to be sure, I wasn't trying to step on any toes. I figured there would be multible takers so he would have the oportunity to earn a bundle. If it looks as if the second offer is interfering I will withdraw it. At any rate I suspect the same thing you do; no offer will be good enough for him.

March 30, 2005, 07:53 PM	#93
thralduro Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Texas DFW area Posts: 83	Dang, All I have to say is that there are a couple of folks here who make a LOT more money than me. I know this is a stupid question and a little off topic, but what is BTDT? __________________ Do your part for the 2nd....Join: http://www.leaa.org/ http://www.nra.org/

March 30, 2005, 07:59 PM	#94
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	BTDT - been there, done that... __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

March 30, 2005, 08:06 PM	#95
Greenfurniture Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 209	If Texas is too much for Lucky we would gladly offer the use of Coal Creek Armory's private outdoor range here in Knoxville, which is a lot closer to Kentucky, for said competition. Heck, we might even be talked into having it catered complete with Tennessee bar-b-q and ice cold lemonade! It's a good 1000+ range we use mostly for testing our creations, and there is ample parking and a really nice covered shooting positions. We would also put up a brand new 5" stainless Colt Gunsite pistol for the winner, just to sweeten the pot a tad! __________________ Drink your Kool-Aid, follow me.

March 30, 2005, 08:30 PM	#96
Don Gwinn Staff Emeritus Join Date: March 9, 2000 Location: Virden, IL Posts: 5,917	What a really, really bad place to bluff. __________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don Gwinn: Chicago Gun Rights Examiner

March 30, 2005, 08:38 PM	#97
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 25,005	You know, after watching the documentary on Hogzilla, I'm thinking that if someone videos this encounter, it would be far more interesting and entertaining. I wonder if we could get someone who's really in the business to do a mini-documentary on it? I'd pay for that DVD!

March 30, 2005, 08:42 PM	#98
MassHunter2190 Member Join Date: March 16, 2005 Posts: 82	Hah, i was just thinking the same thing as Don Gwinn

March 30, 2005, 08:43 PM	#99
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Griz- Zero offense taken. You're willing to put your money up; you have every right to make the offer. I can't believe we're all talking as though this is actually gonna happen....me included. Rich __________________ S.W.A.T. Magazine Weapons, Training and Tactics for the Real World Join us at TFL or at AR15.com or on Facebook

March 30, 2005, 09:26 PM	#100
Tommytrauma Member Join Date: February 1, 2002 Posts: 72	Priceless. Absolutely priceless. __________________ But I don't WANT to be a pie!