Jim Zumbo screws up - Page 11

**Mike Irwin** · February 27, 2007, 12:35 AM

Snoopy,

I hate to say this, but you're part of the problem, and as with Petzal and Zumbo, you're apparently incapable of realizing it.

And as such, you endanger all of us.

Far too many people in Britain never thought that the government would come calling for their guns, either. Some predicted war in the British Isles if the government ever tried to ban firearms.

Yet the government banned guns, took them from the hands of the law abiding, and it was achieved with barely a whimper.

You can hold tight to the fantasy of armed insurrection if you wish. Maybe it gives you some measure of comfort. But it's false comfort.

**44 AMP** · February 27, 2007, 12:56 AM

I have been away for a while (computer problem), and missed the incident. Having cuaght up on the news, and gotten through these pages all I can say is WOW. Some people are way too quick to call for a boycott, and others are a bit eager to get the rope. But most seem content with a good old fashioned "tar and feather", then running the rascal out of town on a rail.

I happen to agree with that. Zumbo has, and will suffer for his unthinking words, and his feeble "I was tired" and "I didn't know" won't get him off the hook.

BUT, there is also an element of opportunity here. He has promised to "learn everything he can" about the slandered firearms (or is it libel, since it was in (electronic) print?). If he actually does learn, his public admission of how ignorant he was, and how he had been "conditioned" by the mainstream media to be biased against ARs and AKs might be of some value.

There has always been snobbery in the shooting world, and alot of people with demonstrated "mine is good, yours is bad" attitudes. One finds this attitude lots of other places as well. And sadly, the "I got mine, you're on your own" attitude as well. We lost the legal ability to (easily) own machineguns nearly 80 years ago because of those kind of attitudes. We suffered a serious setback in 94 for the same reasons. Fortunately we did have the strength to force a sunset provision.

One thing the 94 AWB did for us was to turn a growing interest in modern military look-alike firearms into a HUGE interest. 10 years of grownups not being able to buy what they used to buy. 10 years of finding ordinary guns and acessories available only at rediculous prices, because they were "pre-ban". 10 years of kids growing up being told that they could not have certain features on their rifles. And now the 'forbidden fruit" is no longer forbidden. The interest remains. It fact it grows. And it has a number of passionate supporters as the Zumbo incident has demonstrated.

I do not own an AR or an AK. I have, and might again (although the AK would have to be really cheap, and then it would be "iffy"). I have hunted deer with an HK 91. I have shot varmints and pests with an AR. I have also done those things with a single shot shotgun whose stock was held together with wood screws and tape. You would have to work pretty hard to convince me that an AR or an AK is a less suitable firearm for hunting than that.

Zumbo committed the firearm equivalent of using the "N word" and is paying the price. In his momentary lapse of reason he just spouted the message the anti gunners in the media have been hammering at us for years. The technique is called the "Big Lie", and it is insidious, creeping in and becoming an established view, even with people who know better. Assault weapons, High capacity magazines, cop killer bullets, etc. have all been part of the Big Lie for years now, and today "Terrorist weapons" appears to be the next buzzword.

Venison_Jerkey32 · February 27, 2007, 02:03 AM

I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm going to agree with everyone who noticed the fact that the AR is based off of our military's service weapon and thus Zumbo called our military terrorists. (Intentionally or not) When will people realize that the "Assault weapon" is rarley ever used in crime? But I guess it doesn't matter, with such an evil name as ''assault,'' it must be dangerous. If only I can remember where that word originated.....it couldn't have been from Hitler could it? Please don't try to make the connection that Hitler called them assault rifles to sound dangerous, and Anti's call them assault weapons to sound dangerous, because that would be like calling Anti gun advocates Nazis...............Like I said, Don't make the connection!

roy reali · February 27, 2007, 08:10 AM

If you think weapon bans are something not to worry about, move to California. Or ask anyone that lives, or has lived there if gun bans are real or just figments of someones imagination.

Trust me, they are real and they are happening. I speak from experience.

I recently moved from the Golden State to the Silver State. The difference is beyond anything you could imagine.

TimRB · February 27, 2007, 09:41 AM

"Nobody is going to come knocking on our doors to take our guns away, doesnt matter what party is in office."
---------------------------------------
"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it."

-Senator Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif, discussing the 1994 "crime bill"

Tim

AK103K · February 27, 2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

"Nobody is going to come knocking on our doors to take our guns away, doesnt matter what party is in office."

The second part is true. The first part has already been addressed, and they got no resistance, at least none they will admit to, so we failed the first quiz. The rest will go easier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8trl69kzo

HiPowering Along · March 2, 2007, 07:23 PM

My hometown newspaper has another "sportswriter" that just doesn't get it.

http://www.yorkdispatch.com/sports/ci_5340308

He needs email, and lots of it. He needs educated on the sporting uses of the AR platform, and further education that it isn't an evil assault weapon, but a versatile shooting platform much on the same lines as a Thompson Center rifle.

Andy Snyder writes about the outdoors for The York Dispatch. He can be reached by e- mail at [email protected].

Email him...now....keep it civil and professional, don't feed the sterotype they have of us already.

Retired · March 2, 2007, 07:52 PM

HiPowering Along is right. There are now so many combinations of uppers, calibers, etc., that the modern AR is a semiauto version of the Thompson Center Contender. It would be pretty hard to list all of the variations and available accessories.

Some of my buddies refer to "The Shotgun News" as "The AR-15 News." You would have to be pretty clueless to not see how important AR-15's are in the shooting community.

rem33 · March 2, 2007, 08:13 PM

All gun owners should stop using the term "Assault weapon" and call them what they really are.
A HDR or Homeland Defense Rifle or Varmint rifle, target or hunting gun if in larger caliber.

When is the last time you knew of a lawful gun owner assaulting anyone??
I have never heard any of you guys assaulting anyone in these pages, it is always defense or hunting or targets.

HDR's people!!

**Mike Irwin** · March 2, 2007, 08:44 PM

"Nobody is going to come knocking on our doors to take our guns away, doesnt matter what party is in office."

You know, this just dawned on me, but isn't that EXACTLY what happened in New Orleans after Katrina?

Ray Nagin and his chief o' po'leece got their asses handed to them in Federal court for essentially going door to door and confiscicating guns.

What happens if idiots like Zumbo and Petzal have their way and these rifles are outlawed?

Still think that they wouldn't come door to door?

wolfmann · March 3, 2007, 02:01 AM

In California you had to register or give up your assault weapons,less than 10%registered them.
why?
They may enter your home without a warrant, without knocking and TAKE IT!

roy reali · March 3, 2007, 11:53 AM

That is why I moved from the land of the kooks to the land of the free. At least in The Silver state they do not treat us like little children.

rwilson452 · March 3, 2007, 04:00 PM

I was living in the land of fruits and nuts when a new AG took over. he went to the top dude in the CHP and said they should go over the forms and go collect all those unregistered "assault weapons". the CHP is said to have responded "Are you nuts!!"

February 27, 2007, 12:35 AM	#251
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,404	Snoopy, I hate to say this, but you're part of the problem, and as with Petzal and Zumbo, you're apparently incapable of realizing it. And as such, you endanger all of us. Far too many people in Britain never thought that the government would come calling for their guns, either. Some predicted war in the British Isles if the government ever tried to ban firearms. Yet the government banned guns, took them from the hands of the law abiding, and it was achieved with barely a whimper. You can hold tight to the fantasy of armed insurrection if you wish. Maybe it gives you some measure of comfort. But it's false comfort. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

February 27, 2007, 12:56 AM	#252
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,923	Chiming in I have been away for a while (computer problem), and missed the incident. Having cuaght up on the news, and gotten through these pages all I can say is WOW. Some people are way too quick to call for a boycott, and others are a bit eager to get the rope. But most seem content with a good old fashioned "tar and feather", then running the rascal out of town on a rail. I happen to agree with that. Zumbo has, and will suffer for his unthinking words, and his feeble "I was tired" and "I didn't know" won't get him off the hook. BUT, there is also an element of opportunity here. He has promised to "learn everything he can" about the slandered firearms (or is it libel, since it was in (electronic) print?). If he actually does learn, his public admission of how ignorant he was, and how he had been "conditioned" by the mainstream media to be biased against ARs and AKs might be of some value. There has always been snobbery in the shooting world, and alot of people with demonstrated "mine is good, yours is bad" attitudes. One finds this attitude lots of other places as well. And sadly, the "I got mine, you're on your own" attitude as well. We lost the legal ability to (easily) own machineguns nearly 80 years ago because of those kind of attitudes. We suffered a serious setback in 94 for the same reasons. Fortunately we did have the strength to force a sunset provision. One thing the 94 AWB did for us was to turn a growing interest in modern military look-alike firearms into a HUGE interest. 10 years of grownups not being able to buy what they used to buy. 10 years of finding ordinary guns and acessories available only at rediculous prices, because they were "pre-ban". 10 years of kids growing up being told that they could not have certain features on their rifles. And now the 'forbidden fruit" is no longer forbidden. The interest remains. It fact it grows. And it has a number of passionate supporters as the Zumbo incident has demonstrated. I do not own an AR or an AK. I have, and might again (although the AK would have to be really cheap, and then it would be "iffy"). I have hunted deer with an HK 91. I have shot varmints and pests with an AR. I have also done those things with a single shot shotgun whose stock was held together with wood screws and tape. You would have to work pretty hard to convince me that an AR or an AK is a less suitable firearm for hunting than that. Zumbo committed the firearm equivalent of using the "N word" and is paying the price. In his momentary lapse of reason he just spouted the message the anti gunners in the media have been hammering at us for years. The technique is called the "Big Lie", and it is insidious, creeping in and becoming an established view, even with people who know better. Assault weapons, High capacity magazines, cop killer bullets, etc. have all been part of the Big Lie for years now, and today "Terrorist weapons" appears to be the next buzzword. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 27, 2007, 02:03 AM	#253
Venison_Jerkey32 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2006 Location: Country of Origin: Texas Posts: 192	I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm going to agree with everyone who noticed the fact that the AR is based off of our military's service weapon and thus Zumbo called our military terrorists. (Intentionally or not) When will people realize that the "Assault weapon" is rarley ever used in crime? But I guess it doesn't matter, with such an evil name as ''assault,'' it must be dangerous. If only I can remember where that word originated.....it couldn't have been from Hitler could it? Please don't try to make the connection that Hitler called them assault rifles to sound dangerous, and Anti's call them assault weapons to sound dangerous, because that would be like calling Anti gun advocates Nazis...............Like I said, Don't make the connection! __________________ Happiness is an empty mag and a pile of hot brass... I may be young, but it is the people of my generation that will decide the future of America.

February 27, 2007, 08:10 AM	#254
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Re:9mmsnoopy If you think weapon bans are something not to worry about, move to California. Or ask anyone that lives, or has lived there if gun bans are real or just figments of someones imagination. Trust me, they are real and they are happening. I speak from experience. I recently moved from the Golden State to the Silver State. The difference is beyond anything you could imagine.

March 2, 2007, 07:23 PM	#257
HiPowering Along Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2006 Location: PA - Land of taxes, potholes and unfortunately Ed "Gun Grabbin' Fast Eddie" Rendell Posts: 254	Here's another writer that just doesn't get it... My hometown newspaper has another "sportswriter" that just doesn't get it. http://www.yorkdispatch.com/sports/ci_5340308 He needs email, and lots of it. He needs educated on the sporting uses of the AR platform, and further education that it isn't an evil assault weapon, but a versatile shooting platform much on the same lines as a Thompson Center rifle. Andy Snyder writes about the outdoors for The York Dispatch. He can be reached by e- mail at [email protected]. Email him...now....keep it civil and professional, don't feed the sterotype they have of us already. __________________ HP'ing Along - - - - - - - - - - - - - *"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."* - One of the greatest sentences ever written into an instrument of democracy.

February 27, 2007, 09:41 AM	#255
TimRB Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 1,051	"Nobody is going to come knocking on our doors to take our guns away, doesnt matter what party is in office." --------------------------------------- "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them, Mr. and Mrs. America, turn them all in, I would have done it." -Senator Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif, discussing the 1994 "crime bill" Tim

March 2, 2007, 07:52 PM	#258
Retired Member Join Date: January 26, 2006 Location: Northern California Posts: 68	"A versatile shooting platform" HiPowering Along is right. There are now so many combinations of uppers, calibers, etc., that the modern AR is a semiauto version of the Thompson Center Contender. It would be pretty hard to list all of the variations and available accessories. Some of my buddies refer to "The Shotgun News" as "The AR-15 News." You would have to be pretty clueless to not see how important AR-15's are in the shooting community.

March 2, 2007, 08:13 PM	#259
rem33 Junior member Join Date: March 31, 2006 Posts: 1,528	Hdr All gun owners should stop using the term "Assault weapon" and call them what they really are. A HDR or Homeland Defense Rifle or Varmint rifle, target or hunting gun if in larger caliber. When is the last time you knew of a lawful gun owner assaulting anyone?? I have never heard any of you guys assaulting anyone in these pages, it is always defense or hunting or targets. HDR's people!!

March 2, 2007, 08:44 PM	#260
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,404	"Nobody is going to come knocking on our doors to take our guns away, doesnt matter what party is in office." You know, this just dawned on me, but isn't that EXACTLY what happened in New Orleans after Katrina? Ray Nagin and his chief o' po'leece got their asses handed to them in Federal court for essentially going door to door and confiscicating guns. What happens if idiots like Zumbo and Petzal have their way and these rifles are outlawed? Still think that they wouldn't come door to door? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 3, 2007, 02:01 AM	#261
wolfmann Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2007 Location: Kalifornia Posts: 117	In California you had to register or give up your assault weapons,less than 10%registered them. why? They may enter your home without a warrant, without knocking and TAKE IT!

March 3, 2007, 11:53 AM	#262
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Re:wolfmann That is why I moved from the land of the kooks to the land of the free. At least in The Silver state they do not treat us like little children.

March 3, 2007, 04:00 PM	#263
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	I was living in the land of fruits and nuts when a new AG took over. he went to the top dude in the CHP and said they should go over the forms and go collect all those unregistered "assault weapons". the CHP is said to have responded "Are you nuts!!"