Beginner what .22 rifle to go for?

richfr · December 19, 2009, 12:52 PM

Hi everyone I am new to the sport (and forum) and thinking of buying a .22 rifle for my first gun. I live in France and have to wait 6 months before I can buy anything interesting.
I was going to wait the six months and buy a 9mm pistol but that means relying on other members to lend me guns and sell me the ammo

and most of the time I am just hanging around especially if the guys I know aren't there. I am very keen to learn and think it will be a long term hobby for me

I thought I would get a .22 rifle and as the ammo is cheap and will give me a good starting point. I will probably end up keeping it anyway but money is an issue if I want a 9mm in 6 months.
So do I buy a cheap Chinese Norinco JW15 kit (Alpen sights, silencer, hard case, cleaning kit and 500 rounds) or do I buy a quality rifle and use the iron sights for a while then get optics etc later?
What would you guys recommend?
I think they are a bit more expensive over here the JW15 kit would be €310 $430.

Thanks Rich

fyimo · December 19, 2009, 01:26 PM

I never vote to get a cheap gun except if the research shows it is dead reliable and decently accurate. Most cheap rifles have feeding problems and don't shoot very accuratly. I really can't comment other then that because I don't know what's available or the pricing in France.

chris in va · December 19, 2009, 01:34 PM

I don't suppose you can get a 9mm carbine like a KelTec or HiPoint? They're a lot more fun than a 22 rifle.

Microgunner · December 19, 2009, 01:39 PM

Always buy the finest firearm you can afford if you plan to use it. Good quality never goes out of style.

hodaka · December 19, 2009, 01:45 PM

Welcome Rich,

I would forego the Norinco and go for something American or European made. CZ's are popular over here as are a bunch of others too numerous to count. Are silencers easy to acquire there? There is a considerable extra tax on them here.

Evan Thomas · December 19, 2009, 01:50 PM

Welcome to TFL, and to our fine hobby...

A good bolt-action .22 rifle is the best possible tool for a beginner to learn to shoot well: it's very simple mechanically, so there's little to go wrong, and it's easy to clean and maintain; ammunition is cheap, so you can afford to shoot a lot; recoil is low, so you can learn correct form, practicing as much as you want without either wrecking your shoulder or developing a flinch or other bad habits.

The best value for money is probably the CZ 452 or 453 (latter is a bit more money and has a set trigger, which a beginner probably doesn't need). They are excellent, very accurate rifles. They're made in the Czech Republic, so I presume they're readily available in Europe. The Savage Mark II would be a good second choice if you're on a tighter budget, although I don't know relative prices over there...

With any rifle, learning with iron sights is good if you have the eyesight for it. If you do want a scope, stay away from package deals and buy a good scope separately -- the scopes included with package deals tend not to be very good quality.

Buzzcook · December 19, 2009, 02:01 PM

A .22 rifle is the way to go. Most used .22 rifles still work well and you can get a higher quality rifle than buying new. A bolt action is very simple technology and just about any major gun maker has a good .22 bolt.

As mentioned above, buy the best you can afford and it will last you a life time.

Jimro · December 19, 2009, 02:05 PM

If this is truly your first firearm, a Norinco JW-15 is probably going to give you a great first rifle to practice on.

You probably won't go out and start winning rimfire matches, but you will have plenty of opportunity to learn the fundamentals of marksmanship.

Jimro

richfr · December 19, 2009, 02:12 PM

Thanks for the info

I kind of knew what the answer would be I just didn't want to spend lots of money keeping it for a 9mm

chris in va - I cant have anything other than .22 rifle or black powder for the first 6 months then almost anything goes (not allowed fully auto have to be converted to semi)

hodaka - Silencers aren't a problem here as far as I know.

Vanya - My eye sight is good, yes we can get CZ here http://www.tir1000.com/index.php?cPath=64_75 would be €390 $560 for a CZ452 on its own which would blow all my budget

Maybe I should try to find something second hand?

Jimro · December 19, 2009, 02:24 PM

richfr,

If you can find a CZ second hand, or an older Anshutz in your budget, that would be good. Also Zastava puts out a 22 that Charles Daly imported, now Remington imports and calls the Model 5. I have one of the Model 5's and it is a very good rifle, mine was on sale for $150. If you see one for a good price I would snap it up.

Jimro

trublu · December 19, 2009, 02:25 PM

Buy this one (cz452 lux) if you just want iron sights. I've got one like it and it's great - accurate and fun.

"blow your budget" - I think we've all done that

CraigC · December 19, 2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

They're a lot more fun than a 22 rifle.

What???????

Evan Thomas · December 19, 2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigC

Quote:

They're a lot more fun than a 22 rifle.

What???????

Well said!

Rich, you might also want to price the CZ 452 trainer -- same rifle, but with a birch stock instead of the walnut, for somewhat less money... and if you could find one of those, used...

Tucker 2 · December 19, 2009, 09:53 PM

CZ... it is worth it. Particularly the full stock.

(not mine).

fisherman66 · December 19, 2009, 10:05 PM

I agree with CZ. I also agree with a full stock. Good lukin gun. Pardon my vernacular.

Radagast · December 19, 2009, 10:11 PM

Another vote for the CZ452. I've had mine for 12 years and have never regretted buying it and then waiting to be able to buy a scope.

banditt007 · December 19, 2009, 10:50 PM

check out the CZ's or the brno's I have a CZ 452 american .22lr i love it. the CZ 453 as mentioned has a factory set trigger and costs $100+ more. IMO its not worth it, for $18 literally you can install a sweet, adjustable trigger kit in the CZ 452 which makes it the nicest trigger i've ever used (fairly limited experience w/ rifle triggers, but still, its really nice) For a bit cheaper you can get the CZ scout, which is everything that the CZ 452 is, but a cheaper stock. but all the workings are the exact same. You will not regret this purchase it makes many other .22's feel like a cheap toy. Of course there are nicer .22's out there but you will pay a good chunk of change more to get a real step up from the CZ

Sport45 · December 19, 2009, 10:58 PM

If you don't mind the synthetic stock, a Marlin 981T makes a good beginner's rifle. I bought one for my son when he was 14 or 15. A few months later we put a 4-12 AO scope on it and he had no trouble at all hitting shotgun hulls at 50 yards. (Tin cans hanging from a wire at that distance were too easy so he started shooting the wire instead.)

I like the lines of a tube fed .22 much better than I like the looks of one with the skinny magazine sticking out the bottom.

Fullthrottle · December 20, 2009, 12:26 AM

I am realy wondering what I missed. I know little of most of the .22's mentioned in this thread so far (except the Marlin). But nobody mentioned the Ruger 10/22(real popular here in the US), also inexpensive, localy $200usd or so. Can you get this rifle reasonably in France? If so, I highly recommend it for your use. As mentioned before stay away from scoped combo's (definately cheap scopes, I have found). No matter what you choose to buy(I say spend as much as you can afford to do), enjoy your new sport!

Jimro · December 20, 2009, 12:33 AM

The problem with semi-auto 22's for a first rifle is that it is way too tempting to just throw lead downrange instead of developing marksmanship skills.

Jimro

Willie D · December 20, 2009, 12:40 AM

Funny how no one bothered to Google the Norinco model and find out it's a CZ clone...

Jimro · December 20, 2009, 12:51 AM

I googled it, but I don't know if being a CZ clone is the same as having CZ quality....

I still think it would be a good first rifle, as MOST first rifles shoot better than first shooters

Jimro

Fullthrottle · December 20, 2009, 12:57 AM

"The problem with semi-auto 22's for a first rifle is that it is way too tempting to just throw lead downrange instead of developing marksmanship skills."

True but the key word is "tempting", not a problem depending on your intent for use!

"MOST first rifles shoot better than first shooters"
Another very good point, and Jimro, I do agree that a clone may or may not be as good of quality. Only manufacturing and quality control can prove one way or another!

KnightofCydonia · December 20, 2009, 02:01 AM

Go for a bolt action: Marlin 925

richfr · December 20, 2009, 05:42 AM

I haven't seen Rugger over here and not many Marlins

Really like the look of the full stock but its a chunk more cash.
Will try getting to the local shops see if there are any used ones.

December 19, 2009, 12:52 PM	#1
richfr Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: France Posts: 79	Beginner what .22 rifle to go for? Hi everyone I am new to the sport (and forum) and thinking of buying a .22 rifle for my first gun. I live in France and have to wait 6 months before I can buy anything interesting. I was going to wait the six months and buy a 9mm pistol but that means relying on other members to lend me guns and sell me the ammo and most of the time I am just hanging around especially if the guys I know aren't there. I am very keen to learn and think it will be a long term hobby for me I thought I would get a .22 rifle and as the ammo is cheap and will give me a good starting point. I will probably end up keeping it anyway but money is an issue if I want a 9mm in 6 months. So do I buy a cheap Chinese Norinco JW15 kit (Alpen sights, silencer, hard case, cleaning kit and 500 rounds) or do I buy a quality rifle and use the iron sights for a while then get optics etc later? What would you guys recommend? I think they are a bit more expensive over here the JW15 kit would be €310 $430. Thanks Rich

December 19, 2009, 01:39 PM	#4
Microgunner Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,324	Always buy the finest firearm you can afford if you plan to use it. Good quality never goes out of style. __________________ *Proud NRA Benefactor Member*

December 19, 2009, 01:50 PM	#6
Evan Thomas Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Upper midwest Posts: 5,631	Welcome to TFL, and to our fine hobby... A good bolt-action .22 rifle is the best possible tool for a beginner to learn to shoot well: it's very simple mechanically, so there's little to go wrong, and it's easy to clean and maintain; ammunition is cheap, so you can afford to shoot a lot; recoil is low, so you can learn correct form, practicing as much as you want without either wrecking your shoulder or developing a flinch or other bad habits. The best value for money is probably the CZ 452 or 453 (latter is a bit more money and has a set trigger, which a beginner probably doesn't need). They are excellent, very accurate rifles. They're made in the Czech Republic, so I presume they're readily available in Europe. The Savage Mark II would be a good second choice if you're on a tighter budget, although I don't know relative prices over there... With any rifle, learning with iron sights is good if you have the eyesight for it. If you do want a scope, stay away from package deals and buy a good scope separately -- the scopes included with package deals tend not to be very good quality. __________________ Never let anything mechanical know you're in a hurry.

December 19, 2009, 02:05 PM	#8
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	If this is truly your first firearm, a Norinco JW-15 is probably going to give you a great first rifle to practice on. You probably won't go out and start winning rimfire matches, but you will have plenty of opportunity to learn the fundamentals of marksmanship. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

December 19, 2009, 02:24 PM	#10
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	richfr, If you can find a CZ second hand, or an older Anshutz in your budget, that would be good. Also Zastava puts out a 22 that Charles Daly imported, now Remington imports and calls the Model 5. I have one of the Model 5's and it is a very good rifle, mine was on sale for $150. If you see one for a good price I would snap it up. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

December 19, 2009, 01:26 PM	#2
fyimo Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2009 Posts: 360	I never vote to get a cheap gun except if the research shows it is dead reliable and decently accurate. Most cheap rifles have feeding problems and don't shoot very accuratly. I really can't comment other then that because I don't know what's available or the pricing in France.

December 19, 2009, 01:34 PM	#3
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I don't suppose you can get a 9mm carbine like a KelTec or HiPoint? They're a lot more fun than a 22 rifle.

December 19, 2009, 01:45 PM	#5
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	Welcome Rich, I would forego the Norinco and go for something American or European made. CZ's are popular over here as are a bunch of others too numerous to count. Are silencers easy to acquire there? There is a considerable extra tax on them here.

December 19, 2009, 02:01 PM	#7
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	A .22 rifle is the way to go. Most used .22 rifles still work well and you can get a higher quality rifle than buying new. A bolt action is very simple technology and just about any major gun maker has a good .22 bolt. As mentioned above, buy the best you can afford and it will last you a life time.

December 19, 2009, 02:12 PM	#9
richfr Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: France Posts: 79	Thanks for the info I kind of knew what the answer would be I just didn't want to spend lots of money keeping it for a 9mm chris in va - I cant have anything other than .22 rifle or black powder for the first 6 months then almost anything goes (not allowed fully auto have to be converted to semi) hodaka - Silencers aren't a problem here as far as I know. Vanya - My eye sight is good, yes we can get CZ here http://www.tir1000.com/index.php?cPath=64_75 would be €390 $560 for a CZ452 on its own which would blow all my budget Maybe I should try to find something second hand?

December 19, 2009, 02:25 PM	#11
trublu Member Join Date: November 5, 2008 Posts: 97	Buy this one (cz452 lux) if you just want iron sights. I've got one like it and it's great - accurate and fun. "blow your budget" - I think we've all done that

December 19, 2009, 09:53 PM	#14
Tucker 2 Member Join Date: September 19, 2006 Posts: 95	CZ... it is worth it. Particularly the full stock. (not mine).

December 19, 2009, 10:05 PM	#15
fisherman66 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2005 Location: The Woodlands TX Posts: 4,687	I agree with CZ. I also agree with a full stock. Good lukin gun. Pardon my vernacular. __________________ la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas!

December 19, 2009, 10:11 PM	#16
Radagast Senior Member Join Date: July 13, 2001 Posts: 449	Another vote for the CZ452. I've had mine for 12 years and have never regretted buying it and then waiting to be able to buy a scope.

December 19, 2009, 10:50 PM	#17
banditt007 Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2006 Posts: 694	check out the CZ's or the brno's I have a CZ 452 american .22lr i love it. the CZ 453 as mentioned has a factory set trigger and costs $100+ more. IMO its not worth it, for $18 literally you can install a sweet, adjustable trigger kit in the CZ 452 which makes it the nicest trigger i've ever used (fairly limited experience w/ rifle triggers, but still, its really nice) For a bit cheaper you can get the CZ scout, which is everything that the CZ 452 is, but a cheaper stock. but all the workings are the exact same. You will not regret this purchase it makes many other .22's feel like a cheap toy. Of course there are nicer .22's out there but you will pay a good chunk of change more to get a real step up from the CZ

December 19, 2009, 10:58 PM	#18
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	If you don't mind the synthetic stock, a Marlin 981T makes a good beginner's rifle. I bought one for my son when he was 14 or 15. A few months later we put a 4-12 AO scope on it and he had no trouble at all hitting shotgun hulls at 50 yards. (Tin cans hanging from a wire at that distance were too easy so he started shooting the wire instead.) I like the lines of a tube fed .22 much better than I like the looks of one with the skinny magazine sticking out the bottom. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

December 20, 2009, 12:26 AM	#19
Fullthrottle Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2009 Posts: 280	I am realy wondering what I missed. I know little of most of the .22's mentioned in this thread so far (except the Marlin). But nobody mentioned the Ruger 10/22(real popular here in the US), also inexpensive, localy $200usd or so. Can you get this rifle reasonably in France? If so, I highly recommend it for your use. As mentioned before stay away from scoped combo's (definately cheap scopes, I have found). No matter what you choose to buy(I say spend as much as you can afford to do), enjoy your new sport! __________________ When seconds count, why is help minutes away?

December 20, 2009, 12:33 AM	#20
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	The problem with semi-auto 22's for a first rifle is that it is way too tempting to just throw lead downrange instead of developing marksmanship skills. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

December 20, 2009, 12:40 AM	#21
Willie D Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Posts: 1,149	Funny how no one bothered to Google the Norinco model and find out it's a CZ clone...

December 20, 2009, 12:51 AM	#22
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	I googled it, but I don't know if being a CZ clone is the same as having CZ quality.... I still think it would be a good first rifle, as MOST first rifles shoot better than first shooters Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

December 20, 2009, 12:57 AM	#23
Fullthrottle Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2009 Posts: 280	"The problem with semi-auto 22's for a first rifle is that it is way too tempting to just throw lead downrange instead of developing marksmanship skills." True but the key word is "tempting", not a problem depending on your intent for use! "MOST first rifles shoot better than first shooters" Another very good point, and Jimro, I do agree that a clone may or may not be as good of quality. Only manufacturing and quality control can prove one way or another! __________________ When seconds count, why is help minutes away?

December 20, 2009, 02:01 AM	#24
KnightofCydonia Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2009 Posts: 219	Go for a bolt action: Marlin 925

December 20, 2009, 05:42 AM	#25
richfr Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: France Posts: 79	I haven't seen Rugger over here and not many Marlins Really like the look of the full stock but its a chunk more cash. Will try getting to the local shops see if there are any used ones.