Stock length and recoil pads

[CEldon]

When i get into my shooting posture, close my eyes and adjust for a comfortable, natural position, i open my eyes to find that there is space between the butt plate and my shoulder. When i close that space, and pull the stock into my shoulder, my trigger arm is less comfortable and my eye relief is wrong.

The search is on for a solution to the wood stock length, more than the reduced recoil, and that’s where some experienced thoughts and suggestions would come in handy.

If I’m looking at the mechanics of body position or technique, that’s one thing I’d be interested in.

If I’m looking at aftermarket recoil pads, there seem to be quite a few. Kick Killer, Recoil Eraser, Shooters Pad, Limbsaver, Pachmayr, Magpul and Beartooth.

They include Slip-on and grind-to-fit styles, and there are the obvious benefits to a pad, but some issues are with screw alignment, grinding, semi-permanent adhesives, gel material that might diminish over time, discoloration of wood stocks and leather vs rubber.

Any experience based thoughts?

[Nathan]

How thick is your current pad? Measure your lop. What is it?

Make shims out of cardboard and build up until the gun fits. Make sure you check all positions and are aligning yourself constantly to the rifle. I find this the hardest part. Put on your heaviest hunting gear. Still fits? If not, remove some spacers. Once I get a number from this, I adjust shorter by about 1/8”.

Most stock makers can fit a pad and or spacers

[CEldon]

Cardboard shims. That’s pretty clever! Simplistic and practical at the same time. I may just try that. One of the issues i saw, about replacing stock putt plates, was having to grind them to size. The grinding was mentioned a bit, but not the method of grinding. The cardboard concept, other than the weathers effect on it, seems much easier to size.

The LOP on both my Winchester model 70 and Remington model 700 is 13 1/2”. If it means anything, my arm length, from center shoulder to finger tip is 32”. Unfortunately, the Remington already has a stock looking, 1” recoil pad so i may be stuck with that one. I don’t see many 2” pads.

[CEldon]

Additionally, my arms LOP, from inside arm bend to fingertip, is 17”. Using guidance from a shooters article site, my arm lays on both rifles as it should, with finger laying on the triggers as they should. Now the issue is that, to get the correct eye relief, i have to move my head forward and then my nose is only 1” from my thumb and my arm is bent to a 30 degree angle.

I guess one option is to slide the scope further to the rear.

[HiBC]

I believe the intent of the cardboard shims is a temporary "try fit" to determine what adjustments work for you. Thats a good plan.

You mention"Holding up to weathers" . I would not expect that of the cardboard.

I'm curious. The criteria of "eye relief". It certainly is important!

I'm all for proper stock fit,but a certain amount of eye relief is in the positioning of the scope,even to the point of using offset rings if the scope turret location demands.

I'm not going to measure my reach right now,but in a dress shirt I take a 35 in sleeve,
My perception is you do not have an unusual body type.

I absolutely agree with the idea your gun should fit so when you open your eyes you are looking through the sights. Thats the right track.

Its not necessarily something easily done by yourself. You may need an "observer". Before you alter the gun,do you have a local gunsmith you can trust? He/she might have some ideas about the best approach to achieving your goal.

One way to get a ballpark idea (if not the final answer) is to place the butt in the crook of your elbow. The length of pull should petty much place your finger on the trigger.
Thats an old "Rule of thumb". Is it the precise last word on what your length of pull should be? No. Not at all. Its just an indicator. If it tells you your gun's length of pull is within reason... I might look into a second opinion.

If you were contemplating having a high end (very expensive) custom gun built, you would first visit their fitter. This person is an expert at fitting guns to people.

I'm just suggesting you might find some knowledgeable help and a good plan before anything that involves cutting.

[CEldon]

Thanks for supporting my comfortable position thought. I’m going to get the rifle out in a while, to do some hands-on fitting experiments. Then I’ll put it in the support to look at possibly moving the scope a little further back. It’s a new Leupold that i simply mounted were the older site was. The current butt plate is your basic, original flat plate, so there is room if i need to extend that.

Thanks

[HiBC]

OK.
To increase eye relief (the effect if lengthening the stock as you described) you would move the scope forward. They do make extended rings if the turret limits travel.

With a hard buttplate, one option is having a recoil pad fitted.

In any case, I'd talk with your local gunsmith. There are some skills and tools involved with doing a nice job of fitting a pad.

[CEldon]

OK, thanks. I worked with the rifle a little bit ago and i came away with this.

My eye relief for this scope, a Leupold VX Freedom 4x 12x 40, is 4”. That puts my cheek in a good place on the stock. With my finger correctly on the trigger, and my hand gripping the stock, the butt plate is just barely touching my shirt. It appears that a 1” recoil pad might do the trick in order to maintain my cheek position. This is all on the Winchester 70 that has the basic thin butt plate, so adding a recoil pad is doable.

What i didn’t do was try moving the scope forward, which in turn moves the stock to the rear. That will also move my cheek position forward, but that may be OK.

Lots to consider to get a good fit isn’t there! I haven't needed a gunsmith yet, but that may be in the plans later.

Thanks again

[Nathan]

Yea, you really need to get stock fit right without the optic. To me, it is all about thumb to cheek spacing. Then set the scope in the correct spot after.

What will greatly affect your lop is how much you rotate your shoulders. You want to develop this upper body position not so much for comfort as much as recoil stroke. The more square your shoulders are, the better that recoil stroke is. You will see it in how crosshairs move when shooting. With a good rest, and clean break, the crosshairs should come straight back and rise just a bit. Side to side movement should be limited and rotation based from barrel twist. A slight twist and a short push forward should reset your position.

[CEldon]

I picked up a Capri torque wrench yesterday and, in remounting the Leupold scope, i moved the scope forward about 3/4". That feels better when I'm adjusting the best i can at home. I'll see what it feels like at the range in a week or so.

Thanks

[HiBC]

There are some harsh lessons best learned through the experience of others.

Don't shorten your eye relief. Set your rifle up to give you full field of view ,but with the scope as far from your eye as practical.

Especially if your rifle has significant recoil.

It happens too often that the eyepiece of the scope makes a nasty cut around the shooters eye. Yes,at 16 yrs old I intended to buy a 270 but the one in stock had a feeding issue, so I took home a 7mm Rem Mag. And I bought a cheap scope with minimal eye relief.

And,like you, I had things to learn.

Not only did I break my glasses and cut my eyebrow,

I was left with a case of the "flinch" that was hard to shake.

[CEldon]

Yup, been there, done that. 6 years ago i took the Remington 7mm to the range for the first time in a long time. Fired the mag ammo. Came home with that scope bruise on my face.

This month it was the skinned-elbow lesson. The shooting table surface has a pretty harsh effect on elbow skin in shortn sleeves.

I set the scope forward this time because it does give me a better cheek position while giving me a good eye relief without having to move my head back. I think its going to be a much more natural position, but i won't know until next month. After getting back into this sport, my August wallet is way empty.

Thanks

[bamaranger]

I'm a bit lost. The OP states that his "comfortable shooting position" involves supporting the rifle, but it is not solidly "shouldered"? How can one obtain a "shooting posture" that is comfortable and natural, and NOT firlmlyshoulder the rifle? I don't doubt there is an issue, but I am having trouble following the descripton of it. My first thought is it is an eyerelief/scope mounting problem, not so much LOP......but that is speculation. Factory stocks strike a happy medium for all shooters, and the OP may need stock alteration, but a lot of Model 70's have been sold, and firt a lot of people.....well enough.

The issue involves a Model 70 it seems.....apparently unaltered? Before I did anything, I'd check that fit and eye relief problem wearing hunting clothes, and in Michigan, I bet that would be heavy clothing. You might find that everthing changes wearing Woolrich! I have bought several rifles in recent years and removed the cushy spacerubber pad attached and fitted plain butt plates, because they were not suitable for me in hunting clothes, even mild Alabama clothes. When your checking fit, be sure and see about field shooting positions, not just the bench. Standing unsupported, off a tree, sitting, kneeling, etc.

[CEldon]

I’m the OP bamaranger, and you can talk to me directly. I look forward to constructive conversation.

Concerning my effort to find a comfortable and natural shooting position. There are some basic shooting posture elements, including “but not limited too”, eye relief, shouldering and cheek position, trigger pull and overall body position. In my effort to satisfy all of these elements, I found good eye relief, then closed my eyes to feel a natural, comfortable and stable body/arm angle with good trigger finger and cheek position. with all of those elements satisfied, the one outstanding was the shouldering. If i satisfied my shouldering, the other elements were altered.

I have since adjusted my scope position to effect that shouldering issue and now i can positions myself behind the rifle and “all” elements are satisfied. You have a different method that works for you. This worked for me.

Just curious. Were did the “ranger” in you bamaranger come from?

Thanks

[bamaranger]

Sounds like you've got your problem worked out.....good for you. I'll send you a PM concerning my "rangering".