My friend's transformation

[Daugherty16]

I forget whose quote that is, but i like its ring of truth. Men, Women, as long you're of sound mind and majority age, not otherwise legally barred from ownership, and have taken legal steps necessary to CCW, please do so! The more of us there are, the more criminals have to fear.
Many times i've heard that women make far better handgun students than men, simply because they tend to have fewer preconceptions and no testosterone problem. And they listen better. And i know first hand that practice does make one comfortable handling a gun, and a better marksman. Sorry, maybe i should have said marksperson. lol
As far as i'm concerned, anyone who takes the trouble to obtain a CCW, shoots regularly, and better yet explores advanced techniques and FOF, has thought out scenarios, worked out answers, knows the applicable laws, and would make a damn fine associate if the suck ever happens around me. Man or woman, what difference could that possibly make? Another gun and two more eyes/ears? Invaluable.

[hecate]

That's what we call an "argument from ignorance." You don't personally know any such women, therefore women like that don't exist.

So let me make some introductions:

Me.

Tamara.

And probably about a quarter of the women I know through the range. A great many women first become interested in shooting when the man walks out or dies. But most of these women aren't going to walk up to some strange dude at the range and suddenly start blurting out their life stories.

I'm a gun collector, too. I fell in love with Browning Hi-Powers after a female LEO friend let me test-drive hers. That was the start of collecting, and now I've outgrown the safe. Again. May have to add a room this time.

What got me interested in guns was learning the hard way that you have to save yourself when The Bad Thing happens. That wasn't an emotional decision, it was 100% purely practical.

I train, I practice, and I carry every single day. I also train in empty hand and edged weapons to have an appropriate force continuum available. And weapon retention, and disarms against guns and blades.

I agree with Tam. Bring on the Sims. We'll sell tickets.

Now some advice: when you're in a hole, stop digging.

Heh, some folks never learn.

[keys85]

I challenge all the female staff moderators to a shoot off.

[OnTheFly]

I challenge all the female staff moderators to a shoot off.

Be careful. They may take you up on that...though you may not like what part of you they shoot off.

Fly

[Tamara]

I still want to see you take a Simunitions Glock away from pax or Hecate or me.

C'mon! It'll be fun!

There's an Awerbuck course in Boone County this August. I'll be there; sign up and I'll see if we can arrange to have our little retention demo on the side.

[keys85]

Yea, to see who's a better shot. A shoot-off. We both know from watching Western's that the better shot is always right in his, or in Annie Oakley's case, her argument.





I know times have changed and boys and girls can do anything they want these days and it's socially acceptable. Heck, even gay men can get married. But, if your son wants to take ballet dancing and your daughter wants to pump septic tanks, aside from deeming those things socially accepted and gender roles non-existant, I will say "COME ON".

[Tamara]

My bad, it was "Waterengineer" that said my gun would get taken away.

But a shootoff? Sure! Show up at the bowling pin match next month at MCF&G; I'm sure you'll totally pwn me, but it will be great fun. It always is!

By the way, you said:

Originally Posted by keys85

I do not know a single women who is a gun collector, not in a relationship with a male gun collector.

Here are some of mine:


(Sorry for the out of date picture; it's from 4 years ago, and I had to stand on a step ladder to get it. I'm not sure I could get all my Smiths in one frame now. Not to mention the military surplus rifles...) Let's see yours!


(PS: I'm not all that hot of a shot. After all, I haven't had a class since Blackwater in August. I wouldn't challenge pax, though; she's an adjunct instructor at FAS and will probably take your lunch money and make you cry.)

[pax]

Keys,

I have no particular need to measure my weenie against yours. You win: yours is bigger. Congratulations.

pax

[chemgirlie]

I do not know a single women who is a gun collector, not in a relationship with a male gun collector.

We do exist, some of us just don't feel the need to advertise.

[Tamara]

Y'know why this stuff just kills me?

Because for years, after I left the first gun store I managed, working in the medical technology field or aviation, and not having much time to shoot, I generally had to keep my mouth shut about my hobbies.

Then I got back into working in the shooting industry full-time and had more time to attend gun shows and matches, and I didn't have to keep my mouth shut about my interests. Wow! It was amazing! Here were people ready to treat me as an equal because we shared the same passions and likes and wants.

I've been privileged to be mentored by some of the finest collectors and gunsmiths. None of them patted me on the head and said "Aw, you're pretty smart for a girl."

The internet has removed barriers to communication; on a discussion forum nobody can see what you look like or what bathroom you use; all that matters is if you know your stuff and can present it in a logical fashion.

But every now and again you get some atavistic throwback who has to throw out "But you're a gurrrrl!" like it's some kind of trump card, even though you've forgotten more about guns than they'll ever know.

Nine years on this board. Fourteen thousand posts answering people's questions about their guns; how much they're worth, how to fix them, how to shoot them, what the laws say... All for free. And still this.

It's enough to make you get a little bit hot under the collar...

[SKULLANDCROSSBONES65]

G'day, Tamara where do I vote for your photo.
Unfortunately Pistols are to difficult to own here. Rifles are not so bad, I have 4. Some people don't understand why I would need/want that many.

[chris in va]

Tamara, might as well say you have one of each.

yet, it's a logical decision for a man to carry, even though he's larger and stronger than most potential attackers, and doesn't really need the advantage? Or did I miss something here?

Most attackers will have some sort of weapon. Without a similar or better weapon, it reduces the 'size' advantage.

Look everyone, not to anger the mods or anything, but Keys has a somewhat valid, if misdirected point. Save for a few ladies on here, I've certainly seen very few shooting by themselves at the range. Mostly it's the guys showing them how to use that spiffy AR or wow them with the 30'06's recoil, or the proper stance when using a handgun.

I think he's just saying TRADITIONALLY, firearms were kinda on the male side of things, just like auto mechanics et al. Times are a'changin though...a good thing.

[keys85]

Nice collection, but I don't see any 1911's. When it comes to wheels, I prefer having 4 of them with a 429 super cobra jet under the hood.

Ok, so I'll tell you a little more where I'm coming from. When I go to my local gun shop, I'm usually there for a good part of the day. Even if I just need to run in and grab a bore brush, it somehow turns out to having coffee and chatting away the afternoon.

Now, only males work in my local shops and generally speaking, there aren't any females in the store. So us guys are hanging out, and talking guy talk.

Introduce a female (such as the time the owner's wife was in the backroom), and it's like meeting the parents. My friend, in general chat, said the American pronunciation of scheizer, and got yelled at like a 9 year old would from Mommy. And he didn't even know she was back there.

So, in a way, it's like...having to dress proper when a girl comes up the clubhouse.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by keys85

Nice collection, but I don't see any 1911's.

What? Like these?

Originally Posted by keys85

Now, only males work in my local shops and generally speaking, there aren't any females in the store. So us guys are hanging out, and talking guy talk.

If you want to come to a gun shop to talk about, you know, guns, I'll be happy to teach you something.

If you'd rather talk about something else, I'm sure there are other places you can go, like the local high school gym locker room.


When you find yourself in a hole, the first step is to quit digging.




EDIT:

Originally Posted by keys85

When it comes to wheels, I prefer having 4 of them with a 429 super cobra jet under the hood.

Solid lifters are a pain in the tuchas for a daily driver... BTDT.

[chemgirlie]

Introduce a female (such as the time the owner's wife was in the backroom), and it's like meeting the parents. My friend, in general chat, said the American pronunciation of scheizer, and got yelled at like a 9 year old would from Mommy. And he didn't even know she was back there.

So, in a way, it's like...having to dress proper when a girl comes up the clubhouse.

I can shoot just as well as somebody with testicles can, I burp the alphabet, and say things that would made a drunken sailor blush. No need to clean it up when I'm around.

[Shadi Khalil]

Keys85 is all talk. Tamera is posting pics, making challanges, Keys85 just keeps talking.....


Either he is a teenager or needs to get out more.....Anyways, keep talking Keys85, its fun watching you get tore down.

[OnTheFly]

What was this thread about anyhow? I faintly remember something about an anti being transformed into a pro-gun person. I'm not sure...that was a long time ago.

Fly

[keys85]

Well, originally, this thread paralleled another thread which was about how to transform a girlfriend into liking guns who was another anti-gun advocate. It described a transformation of someone of some kind.

Just another little doo-hickey, but, from my limited experience of getting out, it appears to me that the majority of anti-gun persons are in fact, female.


Not to get off topic, but how many female reloaders do we have here?

[pax]

What was this thread about anyhow? I faintly remember something about an anti being transformed into a pro-gun person.

Some people aren't happy with women being pro-gun. Too bad.

pax

[imthegrumpyone]

keys85 I'll say good bye now, cause I don't think you'll be around "TFL" to much longer the way your comments are going. There's all ways one in the crowd.

[Kleinzeit]

from my limited experience of getting out, it appears to me that the majority of anti-gun persons are in fact, female

"Limited"? - Apparently.

It's about 50-50 in my experience. In fact, I have often observed males making a particular point of expressing anti-gun sentiments specifically because they wish to dissociate themselves from the stereotype. On the other hand, I have also seen men do it to impress women; it can be yet another permutation on the masculinist "protector" role ("I will heroically stand up against the evils of guns," etc).

It's a complicated world. There are all kinds of people out there doing all kinds of things for all kinds of reasons. Stop making assumptions and open your eyes. Stop trying to fit the great panoply of life into a couple of neat little boxes. It might discomfort you; it might make it harder, at first, to interpret what's going on around you. But it really is worth it. It's a big world.

[OnTheFly]

Not to get off topic, but ...

Oh...I don't think we have to worry about that.

Fly

[BillCA]

Originally Posted by keys85

Give me a reason why a woman would carry a firearm if she didn't feel threatened or feared that she may be, or put into a situation where she would need it.

Tamara's answer works for me. But other reasons abound;
- to protect her family or children.
- because she is under no illusions about police "protection"
- To avoid being at the mercy of a thug, who may not have any.
- To exercise her independence of mind, body & spirit.

Anyone who believes they might be put into a situation where they might need to defend themselves who fails to prepare for the situation is either suicidal or termially stupid. As for me, I don't feel threatened, nor do I think I'll end up in a situation where escape is impossible and I'll have to fight for my life. Yet, I usually have a gun nearby or on my person (when legal).

Originally Posted by Daugherty16

An armed society is a polite society.
I forget whose quote that is, but i like its ring of truth.

That's a partial quote from Robert Heinlein's Beyond This Horizon (recommended reading). Here's the full quote:

"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
--Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon (1942)

Originally Posted by Tamara

I'd like to take "keys85" on in a "Gun Nerd Knowledge Quiz". I'd also like to make book on the outcome...

You'd need a lot of chauvinists to make any profit though.

For what it's worth, I'd be proud to be Tamara's ammo carrier/feeder at a Knob Creek MG shoot. Mostly so everyone won't see she's a better shot than I am.

Having taught some 18 different women the basics of shooting, I can confirm that 98% of them will actually listen to their instructor and apply the lesson material far better than men.

Men come in feeling that they should already know everything about handling a gun. The worst are the braggarts who have never fired one, but can tell you every move by some movie character. Second worst are the guys who fired six rounds from a Blackhawk one summer and think they're experts.

Originally Posted by chemgirlie

I can shoot just as well as somebody with testicles can, I burp the alphabet, and say things that would made a drunken sailor blush. No need to clean it up when I'm around.

LOL, if you like motorcycles, Texas style BBQ and S&W revolvers, we should have a PM discussion.

In my experience, there is not any woman on this board who shoots that I would want to go up against if she were protecting her family. Zero. What I've seen of women who are mindful enough to learn martial skills is that once you trigger their survival instincts they can channel their emotions into ferocity. A woman protecting her family is likely to dispassionately empty her weapon into you and then hack you into cocktail snacks.

[curt.45]

this is bad.


I lust after Tamara





























's guns.
























I just wish she was older..................or not!

[Joat]

The only question I have for the female members of this forum that have so eloquently squashed a chauvinistic blow hard is: "Where were y'all when I was single?"

Joat