Would you buy a Glock if they solved the kb problem? - Page 2

WESHOOT2 · November 19, 2006, 10:22 AM

"KB" = ka-boom; the sound of the pistol firing and exploding at the same time.

I even have pictures of friend's Mec-Tech carbine all blowed up (yes, a Glock-based kablooey).
Set-back I bet.

Well-sized NEW cases and correctly-sized bullets can really keep the angst at bay........any cartridge.

Ausserordeutlich · November 19, 2006, 10:30 AM

Pretty hard to provide intelligent entertainment to an unintelligent proposition!

db99wj · November 19, 2006, 10:34 AM

That was the only thing I could think of but I didn't want to assume anything, since I am still learning. I did a search but couldn't find anything.

I bought some reloads and the set back thing has got me concerned a little. Should I be concerned or just be aware of what I'm putting in?

HorseSoldier · November 19, 2006, 10:53 AM

In answer to the basic question -- No, I wouldn't buy it. Glock kBs seem to be

a) extremely rare,
b) generally restricted to handloads, and
c) mostly restricted to the 40 cal models.

I can handle rare, I don't hand load, and don't shoot 40. So, if I hypothetically had a Glock 19 or a Glock 36 blow up (an extremely unlikely event) while shooting factory ammo, and was injured by it, well, that would suck, but I'm fairly certain that Gaston would be cutting me a fat check, even if a lawyer was skimming a chunk of it. Regardless, I never worried about it when I had a Glock, and if I owned another one would not be concerned about it either.

Now, if Glock started offering their pistols with grip reductions factory-standard and such, I would buy one. I don't like the design enough to screw around with having all that done after-market and such, but if they came sized for the human hand out of the box, I'd pick a couple up in the calibers I shoot.

fairview mick · November 19, 2006, 10:54 AM

All this about KB's in glocks or any other pistol gets circulated because some idiot has a squib and doesn't clear the barrel or has a hefty relod that he wants to produce astronomical velocities and then "IT'S THE GUNS FAULT". I can't imagine major manufacturers would design a product that would have faults like that. Show me proof. And also the lawyers would have a field day if that were the case.
Mickey

tshadow6 · November 19, 2006, 11:59 AM

I've been shooting my GLOCK 19 over ten years. I use factory ammo , never had ANY problems. Now, the indoor range ammo for my duty .40 causes an occasional jam. I've heard that is par for the course for non 9mm platforms and indoor specific range ammo.

UH1-D Rotorhead · November 19, 2006, 12:26 PM

....ever had a KB problem...I have seen KB's in virtually every type of pistol out their, but never heard that it was an exclusive for Glock...where on earth did that come from?

Para Bellum · November 19, 2006, 12:59 PM

There is no problem. You can blow up any gun with excessive handloads or otherwise defect ammo.

constitution · November 19, 2006, 01:23 PM

YUP..even the tough as nails ruger super blackhawk will go with the loads overloaded because the shooter wanted to get more bang for his buck.

That said, I'm getting my first glock next week,a never fired g17.

JR47 · November 19, 2006, 02:02 PM

To be fair, many of the Glock failures of recent vintage have been with factory ammo. Federal American Eagle, WWB, and the Remington training ammo. Another Board lists a recent department that suffered two failures on the same day with their Glock 22s. Yep, it's a .40 S&W. However, the LASD and LAPD have siffered KBs with issue Glock 21's, as has the Indianapolis PD. The same board had a comment from an experienced shooter who bought a new Glock 17. He found that, in slow fire, the slide would stop out of battery by about 1/8" until he had released the trigger FULLY. It appears that the disconnector wasn't machined properly, and was causing that. This is with the latest Generation mods.

Glocks are excellent pistols. Yet, they aren't perfect. The usual lock-step answer from Glock is to blame the ammunition first, then the operator. A little more customer relations training would go a long ways towards helping them out. By the way, both of the Glock 22s are currently at H.P. White Labs for analysis.

Buy one, it's not going to be any more apt to explode with factory ammunition, and a regimen of basic cleaning and lubing, than anything else. Just don't buy into "Perfection" too deeply.

Ozzieman · November 19, 2006, 02:58 PM

And believed all the crap that floated around the net, but since I have the ability to buy just about any gun that I desire I decided to add a Glock to my safe two years ago, I picked up a 26 because of its size and capacity and concealable.
In those two years I have shot over 3 cases of "Factory" ammo and never had a failure of any type. I'm not a big fan of there triggers or the lack of manual safe but it has become the gun that I carry more than any other.
I belong to a large shooting club and another large indoor shooting range and having talked to many different people about the pros and cons of Glocks, almost every one has heard of a Glock blowing up, but not one person has talked to or heard of one blowing up from some one that actually experienced it ether first or second hand.
In almost every case that I have seen any proof it’s always been a nit wit that was the cause and not the firearm.
I have had a gun blow up that actually caused me physical harm. A nit wit blew up an AR-15 standing next to me and the T handle hit me in the face breaking my glasses and nose.
Again it was not the gun but the nit wit loading ammo.
Hand gun powder in a riffle case.
Taking a Glock out and shooting several cases in a single seating would not cause me a second of doubt about the safety of the gun.
It’s the Nit Wits that can say what they want on the net and it turns out to be gospel scares me more.
Remember the Audi and the unintentional acceleration.
I put the Glock KB in the same category.
Dim wits that shouldn’t be driving or shooting.

dajowi · November 21, 2006, 03:39 AM

Hmmm! "Would I buy a Glock if they solved the KB problem?" NOPE. Having bought one Glock already, cured me of wanting to buy anymore.

GoSlash27 · November 21, 2006, 06:51 AM

The KB problem is already fixed to my satisfaction, and yes I would be willing to buy one...but not for myself.

ryucasta · November 21, 2006, 10:19 AM

What started out as a safe load with W231 went over the top as the bullet was setback. For you newbies bullet setback can be caused by the repeated rechambering of the same cartridge.

JR47 · November 21, 2006, 10:59 AM

Ozzieman, I can provide you with access to the stories about the recent failures with factory ammo. They, the police department, and Glock, are both aware of the failures. LAPD and LASD have removed the Glock 21 from the approved list. Perhaps they are the nitwits you refer to? A simple Google search will enable you to find the departments. Maybe you also ascribe the appelation of nitwit to the H.P. White Laboratory, as well?

I'd have to say that your personal experience with one pistol has been good. Nobody ever said that the problem was with every pistol. It's amusing to listen to someone dismiss easily verifiable information on the Glock as some nitwits opinion, while the same people are quite willing to accept as gospel the rantings of others about every other brand. I'd suggest you check your definition of nitwit, it appears to be reversed.

Prophet · November 21, 2006, 11:05 AM

Soooo... With my new 1911 it doesn't like to feed the HP's very well so i've just got me a mag and started cycling through them alot about 20 times each bullet will this cause setback and a KB!!!?

ryucasta · November 21, 2006, 11:13 AM

It potentially could cause a case or chamber failure but dont take my word for it borrow or buy a Stainless Dial Caliper (Dillon, Midway) and measure your cartridges out of the box and after feeding them several times as my daddy once told me the numbers wont lie.

ryucasta · November 21, 2006, 11:21 AM

Here are some setback numbers for 45 ACP that might help clarify this for you

Prophet · November 21, 2006, 05:02 PM

I don't know if the last few post were directed at me but would it be ok to shoot those HP's at the range today.

ryucasta · November 21, 2006, 05:38 PM

Prophet,

They were directed at you and as far as would they be safe to use at the range I can’t say since I don’t know the original COAL or what they are at right now. Since it seems that you’re old enough to go to a range that implies that you are old enough to make a decision on your own...

Rugged · November 21, 2006, 06:47 PM

HAHAHAHAHA

there is no "problem"

KBs happen sometimes. In all guns. Out of the what >1,000,000,000 glocks out there there have been like 9 reported KB?

I shoot super hot stuff. Handloads in winchester brass from my cousin.
the cases all bulge where they are unsupported, but no blowouts yet and Ive shot a ton.

Ive shot EVERYTHING pretty much from every factory. SOme hotter rounds bulge cases. Oh well. I dont pick up brass off the ground and reuse it, sorry.

NOW, if it were 30-06 brass, then it's be a different story. Call la puente firing range in la puente california. Ask them if they've ever seen a KB.
THey have 50 glocks to rent, and you MUST use their HOT reloads to rent their guns.

Never had a problem.

BTW I shoot .40. I will admit, I've been scared by the bulging cases after reading the first time about the KB. But it's just bulged cases.

I would trust my children's life to a glock before any other pistol.

threegun · November 21, 2006, 08:32 PM

Mete,

Quote:

Yes , many are caused by bullet setback ! Set back a bullet in .40 by .10" and you DOUBLE the pressure 35,000 to 70,000 psi !!!

I made a quick phone call to the great guys at Corbon to confirm your figures. They tested some ammunition that they set back .105". Caliber was 9mm and average normal length pressure is 26,000cup. Set back it increased 15 percent to 30,000cup. Noticed that they set it back and additional .005".

Having fired many set back 40s&w's through my Glock without a problem, I suspected that your figures might be a tad off. Corbon reps assured me that any major increases in pressure would be noticeable in both recoil and excessive pressure signs on the empty case (bulged case, primer issues Etc). Hope this info helps.

**JohnKSa** · November 21, 2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

To be fair, many of the Glock failures of recent vintage have been with factory ammo.

"Many" is a pretty loaded word. How "many" actual failures are we talking about? Just because a large PD stopped carrying a firearm doesn't mean much--it could have been only one or two failures that precipitated the change.

And to be perfectly fair, it's often quite difficult to determine just what ammo caused a problem. One Glock kB! I read about on the web some time ago was the result of shooting a box of lead reloads and then a single round of jacketed ammo. The case welded into the gun by the pressure would show that the shooter was using proper ammo at the time of the blow up but that's definitely not the whole story. The only Glock kB! I've been close to was the result of a person's first attempt at handloading. That was according to his friends who were also shooting at the range. The shooter "couldn't remember" what kind of ammo he had been shooting... So how is that one going to be reported?

Quote:

They tested some ammunition that they set back .105". Caliber was 9mm and average normal length pressure is 26,000cup. Set back it increased 15 percent to 30,000cup. Noticed that they set it back and additional .005".

The setback issue with .40S&W is a setback issue with .40S&W. In fact, it's really only the 180gr loadings in that caliber that exhibit the most alarming pressure jumps. That's a big part of the problem. Many handloaders didn't pay close attention to setback issues since it isn't usually a big "gotcha". It really bit a lot of folks in the 180gr .40 before someone figured out what was going on.

FirstFreedom · November 21, 2006, 10:31 PM

nope.

Unless it was cheap enough to turn a profit easily by reselling.

jaysouth · November 21, 2006, 10:41 PM

Favorite internet peeves(seeing garbage disseminated at the speed of light)

Can my gun shoot +p?

Glock KB?

Limp wristing?

My cousin told me that his neighbor's kid is in the Marines and they are getting new 1911s/Glocks/photon phasers/whatever else ain't gonna happen this millennium

Was this an accidental discharge?(no you numbnuts, there is no such thing as an ACCIDENTAL discharge)

:barf:

November 19, 2006, 10:22 AM	#26
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	learning good "KB" = ka-boom; the sound of the pistol firing and exploding at the same time. I even have pictures of friend's Mec-Tech carbine all blowed up (yes, a Glock-based kablooey). Set-back I bet. Well-sized NEW cases and correctly-sized bullets can really keep the angst at bay........any cartridge. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

November 19, 2006, 10:54 AM	#30
fairview mick Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2005 Location: North Olmsted Posts: 795	KB in Glocks All this about KB's in glocks or any other pistol gets circulated because some idiot has a squib and doesn't clear the barrel or has a hefty relod that he wants to produce astronomical velocities and then "IT'S THE GUNS FAULT". I can't imagine major manufacturers would design a product that would have faults like that. Show me proof. And also the lawyers would have a field day if that were the case. Mickey __________________ 90% of my hard earned money went to Hot women, fast bikes and guns. THE REST I WASTED!!!!! Mickey-NRA life member

November 19, 2006, 11:59 AM	#31
tshadow6 Senior Member Join Date: June 26, 2005 Posts: 619	no problems here I've been shooting my GLOCK 19 over ten years. I use factory ammo , never had ANY problems. Now, the indoor range ammo for my duty .40 causes an occasional jam. I've heard that is par for the course for non 9mm platforms and indoor specific range ammo.

November 19, 2006, 12:26 PM	#32
UH1-D Rotorhead Junior member Join Date: March 15, 2006 Posts: 576	I have never heard that Glock..... *....ever had a KB problem...I have seen KB's in virtually every type of pistol out their, but never heard that it was an exclusive for Glock...where on earth did that come from?*

November 19, 2006, 12:59 PM	#33
Para Bellum Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2005 Location: right there Posts: 1,882	There is no problem There is no problem. You can blow up any gun with excessive handloads or otherwise defect ammo. __________________ Si vis pacem - para bellum If you want peace - prepare for war

November 19, 2006, 10:30 AM	#27
Ausserordeutlich Junior member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 996	Pretty hard to provide intelligent entertainment to an unintelligent proposition!

November 19, 2006, 10:34 AM	#28
db99wj Member Join Date: November 18, 2006 Location: Memphis TN Posts: 18	That was the only thing I could think of but I didn't want to assume anything, since I am still learning. I did a search but couldn't find anything. I bought some reloads and the set back thing has got me concerned a little. Should I be concerned or just be aware of what I'm putting in?

November 19, 2006, 10:53 AM	#29
HorseSoldier Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2006 Location: OCONUS 61°13′06″N 149°53′57″W Posts: 2,282	In answer to the basic question -- No, I wouldn't buy it. Glock kBs seem to be a) extremely rare, b) generally restricted to handloads, and c) mostly restricted to the 40 cal models. I can handle rare, I don't hand load, and don't shoot 40. So, if I hypothetically had a Glock 19 or a Glock 36 blow up (an extremely unlikely event) while shooting factory ammo, and was injured by it, well, that would suck, but I'm fairly certain that Gaston would be cutting me a fat check, even if a lawyer was skimming a chunk of it. Regardless, I never worried about it when I had a Glock, and if I owned another one would not be concerned about it either. Now, if Glock started offering their pistols with grip reductions factory-standard and such, I would buy one. I don't like the design enough to screw around with having all that done after-market and such, but if they came sized for the human hand out of the box, I'd pick a couple up in the calibers I shoot.

November 19, 2006, 01:23 PM	#34
constitution Member Join Date: October 1, 2006 Location: USA Posts: 51	YUP..even the tough as nails ruger super blackhawk will go with the loads overloaded because the shooter wanted to get more bang for his buck. That said, I'm getting my first glock next week,a never fired g17.

November 19, 2006, 02:02 PM	#35
JR47 Junior member Join Date: August 9, 2005 Location: North Georgia Posts: 2,228	To be fair, many of the Glock failures of recent vintage have been with factory ammo. Federal American Eagle, WWB, and the Remington training ammo. Another Board lists a recent department that suffered two failures on the same day with their Glock 22s. Yep, it's a .40 S&W. However, the LASD and LAPD have siffered KBs with issue Glock 21's, as has the Indianapolis PD. The same board had a comment from an experienced shooter who bought a new Glock 17. He found that, in slow fire, the slide would stop out of battery by about 1/8" until he had released the trigger FULLY. It appears that the disconnector wasn't machined properly, and was causing that. This is with the latest Generation mods. Glocks are excellent pistols. Yet, they aren't perfect. The usual lock-step answer from Glock is to blame the ammunition first, then the operator. A little more customer relations training would go a long ways towards helping them out. By the way, both of the Glock 22s are currently at H.P. White Labs for analysis. Buy one, it's not going to be any more apt to explode with factory ammunition, and a regimen of basic cleaning and lubing, than anything else. Just don't buy into "Perfection" too deeply.

November 19, 2006, 02:58 PM	#36
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I was once a Glock hater And believed all the crap that floated around the net, but since I have the ability to buy just about any gun that I desire I decided to add a Glock to my safe two years ago, I picked up a 26 because of its size and capacity and concealable. In those two years I have shot over 3 cases of "Factory" ammo and never had a failure of any type. I'm not a big fan of there triggers or the lack of manual safe but it has become the gun that I carry more than any other. I belong to a large shooting club and another large indoor shooting range and having talked to many different people about the pros and cons of Glocks, almost every one has heard of a Glock blowing up, but not one person has talked to or heard of one blowing up from some one that actually experienced it ether first or second hand. In almost every case that I have seen any proof it’s always been a nit wit that was the cause and not the firearm. I have had a gun blow up that actually caused me physical harm. A nit wit blew up an AR-15 standing next to me and the T handle hit me in the face breaking my glasses and nose. Again it was not the gun but the nit wit loading ammo. Hand gun powder in a riffle case. Taking a Glock out and shooting several cases in a single seating would not cause me a second of doubt about the safety of the gun. It’s the Nit Wits that can say what they want on the net and it turns out to be gospel scares me more. Remember the Audi and the unintentional acceleration. I put the Glock KB in the same category. Dim wits that shouldn’t be driving or shooting.

November 21, 2006, 03:39 AM	#37
dajowi Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Posts: 1,196	Hmmm! "Would I buy a Glock if they solved the KB problem?" NOPE. Having bought one Glock already, cured me of wanting to buy anymore.

November 21, 2006, 06:51 AM	#38
GoSlash27 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 3,118	The KB problem is already fixed to my satisfaction, and yes I would be willing to buy one...but not for myself. __________________ Bill of Rights Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Not available in all states. Some restrictions apply.

November 21, 2006, 10:59 AM	#40
JR47 Junior member Join Date: August 9, 2005 Location: North Georgia Posts: 2,228	Ozzieman, I can provide you with access to the stories about the recent failures with factory ammo. They, the police department, and Glock, are both aware of the failures. LAPD and LASD have removed the Glock 21 from the approved list. Perhaps they are the nitwits you refer to? A simple Google search will enable you to find the departments. Maybe you also ascribe the appelation of nitwit to the H.P. White Laboratory, as well? I'd have to say that your personal experience with one pistol has been good. Nobody ever said that the problem was with every pistol. It's amusing to listen to someone dismiss easily verifiable information on the Glock as some nitwits opinion, while the same people are quite willing to accept as gospel the rantings of others about every other brand. I'd suggest you check your definition of nitwit, it appears to be reversed.

November 21, 2006, 11:05 AM	#41
Prophet Junior member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Great State of TEXAS Posts: 244	Soooo... With my new 1911 it doesn't like to feed the HP's very well so i've just got me a mag and started cycling through them alot about 20 times each bullet will this cause setback and a KB!!!?

November 21, 2006, 11:13 AM	#42
ryucasta Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 431	It potentially could cause a case or chamber failure but dont take my word for it borrow or buy a Stainless Dial Caliper (Dillon, Midway) and measure your cartridges out of the box and after feeding them several times as my daddy once told me the numbers wont lie. __________________ Cheers, Raul Scarface/Tony Montana Says: Send me here. Send me there. This. That. Nothing you can do to me Harry, Castro didn’t do --- nothing...

November 21, 2006, 05:02 PM	#44
Prophet Junior member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Great State of TEXAS Posts: 244	I don't know if the last few post were directed at me but would it be ok to shoot those HP's at the range today.

November 21, 2006, 05:38 PM	#45
ryucasta Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 431	Prophet, They were directed at you and as far as would they be safe to use at the range I can’t say since I don’t know the original COAL or what they are at right now. Since it seems that you’re old enough to go to a range that implies that you are old enough to make a decision on your own... __________________ Cheers, Raul Scarface/Tony Montana Says: Send me here. Send me there. This. That. Nothing you can do to me Harry, Castro didn’t do --- nothing...

November 21, 2006, 06:47 PM	#46
Rugged Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2006 Location: People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 241	HAHAHAHAHA there is no "problem" KBs happen sometimes. In all guns. Out of the what >1,000,000,000 glocks out there there have been like 9 reported KB? I shoot super hot stuff. Handloads in winchester brass from my cousin. the cases all bulge where they are unsupported, but no blowouts yet and Ive shot a ton. Ive shot EVERYTHING pretty much from every factory. SOme hotter rounds bulge cases. Oh well. I dont pick up brass off the ground and reuse it, sorry. NOW, if it were 30-06 brass, then it's be a different story. Call la puente firing range in la puente california. Ask them if they've ever seen a KB. THey have 50 glocks to rent, and you MUST use their HOT reloads to rent their guns. Never had a problem. BTW I shoot .40. I will admit, I've been scared by the bulging cases after reading the first time about the KB. But it's just bulged cases. I would trust my children's life to a glock before any other pistol. __________________ "GET RID OF THAT NICKEL-PLATED SISSY PISTOL AND GET YOURSELF A GLOCK!!!"

November 21, 2006, 10:31 PM	#49
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	one word answer nope. Unless it was cheap enough to turn a profit easily by reselling.

November 21, 2006, 10:41 PM	#50
jaysouth Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2001 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 787	Favorite internet peeves(seeing garbage disseminated at the speed of light) Can my gun shoot +p? Glock KB? Limp wristing? My cousin told me that his neighbor's kid is in the Marines and they are getting new 1911s/Glocks/photon phasers/whatever else ain't gonna happen this millennium Was this an accidental discharge?(no you numbnuts, there is no such thing as an ACCIDENTAL discharge) :barf: