Would you buy a Glock if they solved the kb problem? - Page 5

Ralph2 · December 6, 2006, 05:36 AM

Here is the link to the forum that had users talk about other guns they saw or blew up personally. Most were reloads as usual.

CALNRA · December 6, 2006, 06:23 AM

My next gun WILL be a glock regardles of the circumstance and here is why:

I LOVE their politics. WHen California came up with the Chamber indicator and magazine disconnect deadline for 2006 and 2007, repsectively, some companies led some pistols drop off or not introduce their pistols in California.

Glock said, *(&^ it, we are gonna submit and certify ALL our models in California, and they did.

So my next pistol will be a subcompact 9mm Glock.

AngusPodgorney · December 6, 2006, 12:10 PM

So you prefer a company to cave in search of market share? If you want inspiring responses to California's non-sense laws, look to Ronnie Barret!

Bulldog1806 · December 6, 2006, 06:37 PM

Whats a KB?

RockyMtnTactical · December 6, 2006, 07:00 PM

kB!'s are an ammo issue, not a weapon issue.

Oh, and I have a couple Glocks...

RockyMtnTactical · December 6, 2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Whats a KB?

A Kaboom! here's a good read.

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=283479

AngusPodgorney · December 6, 2006, 07:10 PM

KB's are a "weapon system" issue!

RockyMtnTactical · December 6, 2006, 07:21 PM

Quote:

KB's are a "weapon system" issue!

Well, then all weapons systems have issues.

Travismaine · December 6, 2006, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Well, then all weapons systems have issues.

True the point with Glocks is the sheer number of them repeatedly doing the same thing. Name any other mass produced gun with a track record of kb's like
Glock has.

Travis

Ralph2 · December 6, 2006, 09:56 PM

Quote:

True the point with Glocks is the sheer number of them repeatedly doing the same thing. Name any other mass produced gun with a track record of kb's like
Glock has.

1911's in 38 super.
HK I have seen pics of three or four different ones that have let go. Not too far behind Glock.

Define Sheer numbers.
Numbers please. Exactly how many.
And what percentage of total population.
How many from Reloads.
How many per year before and after the 40 S&W ammo casing was "quietly redesigned".
How many from one group dedicated to one lot/brand of ammo without testing other lots/brands.

Too many variables to draw a definitive conclusion.

Discounting the multiple times one might get counted on the net.

I have seen the remains of two revolvers, Therefore revolvers have excessive failure issues. My local Glock Armorer has seen thousands of guns from many different shooters at the gun shows he attends. To date he has one bulged barrel from a squib load and has not encountered either a KB'd gun or a person who claims to have KB'd one.

I'm not saying they don't fail. Just that the numbers may be skewed due to the admitted fact by many that they are the only brand that is getting scrutinized. Many other brands fail but aren't getting plastered all over the place. When a guy destroys the barrel on his 1911 he gets another one provided the rest of the gun wasn't toasted. I have seen all kinds of barrel and chamber failure pics for those in the past 20 years. Those are quietly accepted that they fail and break parts on a regular basis. Look at all the parts sources out there.

RockyMtnTactical · December 6, 2006, 10:29 PM

Quote:

True the point with Glocks is the sheer number of them repeatedly doing the same thing. Name any other mass produced gun with a track record of kb's like
Glock has.

Travis

Name a pistol as prolific as Glock. Not to mention that the majority of them are in 9mm and .40 which are too calibers that push the envelope for pressure...

The sheer number of Glocks out there mean that we hear about more problems with them becuase that's what so many people have.

No doubt, Glocks don't like reloads... but there's always guys shooting reloads in them regardless...

Travismaine · December 6, 2006, 10:29 PM

I have seen KB in many guns. Not to get into a pissing contest about Glocks but many pds have stopped using them after kb's. I personally have seen 6 myself here in Maine. I have read reports from many pds about this problem. Total numbers beats me but they are more prevalent then other guns are. There are many sources you can read to find all this out try the gun zone many copy's of pd reports there to read.

swk314 · December 7, 2006, 04:20 AM

Is Glock going to come out with a more fully supported barrel anytime soon? I personally like Glocks, and I know the chances are rare, but I'd like to keep all my fingers. Do you guys think it would be wise to purchase a Bar-Sto barrel?

Hard Ball · December 7, 2006, 01:53 PM

Glockx KB due to a design flaw that other pistols do not have. A KB is a firing out of battery resultting in a prechambering detonation. And it can and does happen with factory ammunition.

**JohnKSa** · December 7, 2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

A KB is a firing out of battery resultting in a prechambering detonation. And it can and does happen with factory ammunition.

If this were true then chamber support would have NOTHING to do with it.

Crosshair · December 7, 2006, 04:19 PM

Firing out of battery is just one thing that can cause a KB. Chamber support is another thing that can cause it, there are probably other things that will do it that I can't think of right now.

**JohnKSa** · December 7, 2006, 04:36 PM

Yeah, there is more than one thing that can cause kB!s. First of all, any semi-auto can kB! The idea that there are some designs that can't is not based in fact. The problem with this topic is that everyone think's he's an expert but very few people have taken the time to really figure out what's going on.

1. Ammunition problems. In a perfect world, ammunition would all be identical. The cases would be uniformly strong and dimensioned identically. The primers wouldn't protrude and there would never be a case that was oversize enough to not chamber 100%. There would never be bullet setback or powder overcharges. In the real world, none of this is true all the time and any of this can cause a problem in and of itself or raise an existing condition to the level of a problem. A few things to remember. All factory ammunition is not the same. All factory ammunition is not good quality factory ammunition. And lastly, even factory ammunition is not always perfect--nothing manmade is.

2. Out of battery firing. While EVERY semi-auto has one or more safeties to reduce the chances of out of battery firing (Glocks have two), virtually any semi-auto can fire at least a tiny bit out of battery. This often gets worse as parts wear. This is virtually never a problem in a well-maintained firearm when used with good ammunition. Change any of that, and things can get exciting.

3. Lack of chamber support. Semi-autos have chambers with varying amounts of case support. Very few have chambers with full support. Obviously the more you have, the less of a tendency to kB!. Unfortunately, increasing case support in most designs tends to decrease feeding reliability. Factory chamber support from any major firearms manufacturer is always safe when used with good quality factory ammunition. That's the bottom line. The problems can come when any of the qualifiers I put on the word 'ammunition' in the previous sentence are changed.

atblis · December 8, 2006, 01:49 PM

In the case of the Model 20, I would probably buy one if they fixed the chamber issue. 17/19/34 are fine as is.

raggededge · December 8, 2006, 02:24 PM

In response to the original question, I've been eyeing a G21 (that's the full-frame .45ACP). I have rather large hands, so they fit me alright. I wouldn't worry about one coming apart in my hands.

Ausserordeutlich · December 8, 2006, 02:48 PM

"Many PDs have stopped using them....blah, blah, blah." BS! Surely, you don't call the Portland PD "many PDs?" Can you name a few other PDs that stopped using Glocks because THEIR department experienced KBs? No? I didn't think so. Oh, yeah, even the Portland PD didn't stop using Glocks; just opted for a more anemic model.

If Mercedes solves the round wheel problem will you buy a Mercedes? If the airlines solve the wings' falling off problem, will you fly?

threegun · December 8, 2006, 02:52 PM

Never had or seen any Glock fail including many, many G-21's.

I am also a range officer, competition shooter, and gun shop salesman never heard of one (firsthand) either.

OBIWAN · December 8, 2006, 03:10 PM

I recently saw the lab report on the Portland PD's problem pistols

While the questions posed by the PD were obviously slanted towrds finding fault with the weapon, the lab stated categorically that catastrophic overpressure was the problem

JR47 · December 8, 2006, 06:57 PM

LAPD and LASD, the Model 21. Montgomery County PD, Maryland, the Model 22.

Google can be your friend.

December 6, 2006, 12:10 PM	#103
AngusPodgorney Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: DelaWHERE? Posts: 514	So you prefer a company to cave in search of market share? If you want inspiring responses to California's non-sense laws, look to Ronnie Barret! __________________ Gunstock 2007 coming soon!

December 6, 2006, 06:37 PM	#104
Bulldog1806 Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: Central Jersey Posts: 149	Whats a KB? __________________ Ruger Super Redhawk 480, Colt Trooper MKlll 357, SA/XD 45 acp Tactical,Taurus Raging Bull 500 mag, Kimber custom II 45acp, Saiga 308, Glock 22 Sig P220ST, Glock 21SF, Ruger P95,Savage 375 H&H.

December 6, 2006, 07:00 PM	#105
RockyMtnTactical Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2006 Location: Western US Posts: 1,961	kB!'s are an ammo issue, not a weapon issue. Oh, and I have a couple Glocks... __________________ https://battlebornreview.com/

December 6, 2006, 07:10 PM	#107
AngusPodgorney Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: DelaWHERE? Posts: 514	KB's are a "weapon system" issue! __________________ Gunstock 2007 coming soon!

December 7, 2006, 01:53 PM	#114
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	Glockx KB due to a design flaw that other pistols do not have. A KB is a firing out of battery resultting in a prechambering detonation. And it can and does happen with factory ammunition. __________________ "I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemeis domestic or foreign WHOMSOEVER."

December 6, 2006, 05:36 AM	#101
Ralph2 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2006 Location: Indiana Posts: 250	Here is the link to the forum that had users talk about other guns they saw or blew up personally. Most were reloads as usual.

December 6, 2006, 06:23 AM	#102
CALNRA Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2006 Posts: 242	My next gun WILL be a glock regardles of the circumstance and here is why: I LOVE their politics. WHen California came up with the Chamber indicator and magazine disconnect deadline for 2006 and 2007, repsectively, some companies led some pistols drop off or not introduce their pistols in California. Glock said, *(&^ it, we are gonna submit and certify ALL our models in California, and they did. So my next pistol will be a subcompact 9mm Glock.

December 6, 2006, 10:29 PM	#112
Travismaine Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2006 Posts: 147	I have seen KB in many guns. Not to get into a pissing contest about Glocks but many pds have stopped using them after kb's. I personally have seen 6 myself here in Maine. I have read reports from many pds about this problem. Total numbers beats me but they are more prevalent then other guns are. There are many sources you can read to find all this out try the gun zone many copy's of pd reports there to read.

December 7, 2006, 04:20 AM	#113
swk314 Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 176	Is Glock going to come out with a more fully supported barrel anytime soon? I personally like Glocks, and I know the chances are rare, but I'd like to keep all my fingers. Do you guys think it would be wise to purchase a Bar-Sto barrel?

December 7, 2006, 04:19 PM	#116
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Firing out of battery is just one thing that can cause a KB. Chamber support is another thing that can cause it, there are probably other things that will do it that I can't think of right now. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

December 7, 2006, 04:36 PM	#117
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,994	Yeah, there is more than one thing that can cause kB!s. First of all, any semi-auto can kB! The idea that there are some designs that can't is not based in fact. The problem with this topic is that everyone think's he's an expert but very few people have taken the time to really figure out what's going on. 1. Ammunition problems. In a perfect world, ammunition would all be identical. The cases would be uniformly strong and dimensioned identically. The primers wouldn't protrude and there would never be a case that was oversize enough to not chamber 100%. There would never be bullet setback or powder overcharges. In the real world, none of this is true all the time and any of this can cause a problem in and of itself or raise an existing condition to the level of a problem. A few things to remember. All factory ammunition is not the same. All factory ammunition is not good quality factory ammunition. And lastly, even factory ammunition is not always perfect--nothing manmade is. 2. Out of battery firing. While EVERY semi-auto has one or more safeties to reduce the chances of out of battery firing (Glocks have two), virtually any semi-auto can fire at least a tiny bit out of battery. This often gets worse as parts wear. This is virtually never a problem in a well-maintained firearm when used with good ammunition. Change any of that, and things can get exciting. 3. Lack of chamber support. Semi-autos have chambers with varying amounts of case support. Very few have chambers with full support. Obviously the more you have, the less of a tendency to kB!. Unfortunately, increasing case support in most designs tends to decrease feeding reliability. Factory chamber support from any major firearms manufacturer is always safe when used with good quality factory ammunition. That's the bottom line. The problems can come when any of the qualifiers I put on the word 'ammunition' in the previous sentence are changed. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

December 8, 2006, 01:49 PM	#118
atblis Senior Member Join Date: July 17, 2005 Posts: 441	Yes actually In the case of the Model 20, I would probably buy one if they fixed the chamber issue. 17/19/34 are fine as is.

December 8, 2006, 02:24 PM	#119
raggededge Member Join Date: December 5, 2006 Location: So. Holland, IL Posts: 88	In response to the original question, I've been eyeing a G21 (that's the full-frame .45ACP). I have rather large hands, so they fit me alright. I wouldn't worry about one coming apart in my hands.

December 8, 2006, 02:48 PM	#120
Ausserordeutlich Junior member Join Date: May 27, 2006 Posts: 996	"Many PDs have stopped using them....blah, blah, blah." BS! Surely, you don't call the Portland PD "many PDs?" Can you name a few other PDs that stopped using Glocks because THEIR department experienced KBs? No? I didn't think so. Oh, yeah, even the Portland PD didn't stop using Glocks; just opted for a more anemic model. If Mercedes solves the round wheel problem will you buy a Mercedes? If the airlines solve the wings' falling off problem, will you fly?

December 8, 2006, 02:52 PM	#121
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	Never had or seen any Glock fail including many, many G-21's. I am also a range officer, competition shooter, and gun shop salesman never heard of one (firsthand) either.

December 8, 2006, 03:10 PM	#122
OBIWAN Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 1999 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,340	I recently saw the lab report on the Portland PD's problem pistols While the questions posed by the PD were obviously slanted towrds finding fault with the weapon, the lab stated categorically that catastrophic overpressure was the problem

December 8, 2006, 06:57 PM	#123
JR47 Junior member Join Date: August 9, 2005 Location: North Georgia Posts: 2,228	LAPD and LASD, the Model 21. Montgomery County PD, Maryland, the Model 22. Google can be your friend.