Carrying into friend/acquaintances' homes

[Al Norris]

TailGator, I quite understand what you are getting at.

I intentionally used the phrase, "co-worker," to denote that the individual was more than an acquaintance, but less than a what one would consider a friend.

I live in rural south central Idaho. Camping, fishing hunting and guns in general are common topics in the workplace. In such an environment, someone who is adamantly opposed to private ownership of firearms (hence, "dead set against them"), and purposely makes this known to everyone else, during many of these conversations, is not someone I would want to associate with.

Ignorance can be cured through education. A closed mind cannot be educated.

[Trashcan-man]

Kayla,
I think most here agree that you have the right to keep concealed weapons out of your house if you so choose. What I think the dissenting opinion is, is that the carrier is not/should not be required to TELL you they are carrying. If you don't want someone else carrying inside your house then IMO it is up to you to tell them. If you do not then how are they supposed to know? If your answer is really that they should ask...think of that on the whole scale. How many people's houses do you go into every week?

[nazshooter]

RE: "If you don't trust someone with a gun why do you let them in you house at all".

I've met quite a few fellow shooters over the years that I'd trust in my home but not in my home armed. It's not that I think they'd go crazy and hurt someone but some people just don't take gun safety seriously at all. Many years ago my wife and I were visiting some relatives. At one point in the visit one of their kids grabbed a gun out of a kitchen drawer and started waving it around. The parents just laughed. They're still welcome for barbecues etc but I wouldn't want them here with a gun.

I guess with most people though, I figure if I don't see it they're probably doing something right.

[Phoebe]

Sportdog, to be clear, Bass Pro is not "my range." I was only in there to see what handguns they have for sale.

And the female that pointed a gun at me wasn't exactly at the range either -- she was showing me her gun in the parking lot of my range.

The folks who work at my range have never shown anything other than scrupulous safety practices.

[TailGator]

A closed mind cannot be educated.

Truer words have not been spoken, my friend.

And your elaboration of the situation is exactly what I meant in qualifying my comments with the observation that you knew the situation better than anyone. I am always mindful that there are intangibles in the situations that are discussed on line that cannot be quite put into words, or at least not into a reasonable volume of words. Someone that rabid might well be expected to make a scene, or even to have issued the invitation with the intent of trying to embarrass or defame you. Situations like that are best avoided just like those that pose a physical threat.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Ignorance can be cured through education. A closed mind cannot be educated.

Let us all remember that statement applies to everyone. Quite a number of posters maintained that they refuse to associate with someone who disagrees with their viewpoint on firearms. Just who is being close-minded again? Because someone opposes our viewpoint doesn't mean that they are uneducated or close-minded. Refusing to acknowledge anyone else's viewpoint but your own is close minded and ignorant. I'm not knocking anyone in particular, just reminding everyone that just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they are wrong.

I don't have any problem with someone bringing a firearm into my home, I only ask that they tell me. It's a measure of politeness and respect. I also frown on people who show up with kids or pets. Why? It's not because I don't like kids or dogs or or are scared of them, it's for practical reasons. Three mid-thirties guys live here (Nope, we're not, not that there's anything wrong with it...), our home is definitely not kid-safe, and it's not going to be. Same with pets, a friend showed up the other day, let her dog out of the car, as she was asking if that was OK, it came tearing back across the yard, nose bleeding and howling. I was just getting ready to tell her I didn't care but Buster the Cat might. Same with firearms, there are just too many people in and out of the house and so many different things going on all the time that firearms just don't need to be in the mix.

Another thing, expand your world a little folks. Just because someone isn't always talking guns and hanging out on TFL on the time doesn't make them a bad person.

[ATW525]

Let us all remember that statement applies to everyone. Quite a number of posters maintained that they refuse to associate with someone who disagrees with their viewpoint on firearms. Just who is being close-minded again? Because someone opposes our viewpoint doesn't mean that they are uneducated or close-minded. Refusing to acknowledge anyone else's viewpoint but your own is close minded and ignorant. I'm not knocking anyone in particular, just reminding everyone that just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they are wrong.

When you get the world united together singing kumbaya and painting rainbows let me know. Until then I'll continue to carry a gun and I'll continue to avoid people and places that restrict my right to do so.

[TailGator]

I don't have any problem with someone bringing a firearm into my home

there are just too many people in and out of the house and so many different things going on all the time that firearms just don't need to be in the mix.

I am sure you can clarify that, but at first glance the two seem contradictory.

I only ask that they tell me. It's a measure of politeness and respect.

Not picking on you, but no one has really suggested how to handle this yet: Say you invite me and my wife over for dinner one night, along with a couple of your other friends. We spend the evening enjoying your delicious meal, talking football and economics and football and global warming and football. Two weeks later you find out somehow or other that I have a CWP, and you remember that I kept my jacket on all evening when I visited you.

Do you feel disrespected or rudely treated? How would you have preferred that I handled it? Should I have said I had a CWP when you invited me? Should I have whispered something to you at the door? Should I have said anything to the other guests? How do you handle it when you are invited out?

It honestly has not occurred to me before this thread that my discretely and legally bearing a concealed weapon would be objectionable to anyone but a fairly active anti. That is not an accusation, but only an expression of my own surprise that this is an issue with quite a few TFL participants. I honestly don't want to offend, so what would make you feel better about a situation like that? I don't routinely talk about my carry status for tactical reasons, because I don't care to be seen as someone who has to crow about it, and because at root I consider it to be a private personal choice; yet I value courtesy and I would like to hear from those who take offense how to avoid offense.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I only ask that they tell me. It's a measure of politeness and respect.

With no disrespect - and I don't have time to write a philosophical piece - that is sheer baloney. If you invite me to your house, I have no responsibility other than not acting in a manner to threaten you or be rude. My personal behavior is not your business.

If one thinks a common behavior is threatening - you need to announce it before I arrive. I have no responsibility to try to discern what phobias and foilbles you might have.

[Phoebe]

This isn't rocket science and it doesn't have to be some big, loud permission asking activity.

If I know you well, I probably already know if you carry because we've probably talked about it in generic terms.

If I don't know you well, then perhaps you could still bring it up in a conversational, rather than permission seeking manner.

In either case, I could then assume you may be carrying in my house and could then say something if I didn't want you to.

It has seriously never been a big issue in my life. Perhaps some have carried where I was clueless. But in general, I believe I have been aware and could have made a different preference known, if I had one.

I am not asking someone to "knock knock, got a gun, ok if I come in?" (where is a RTOFL icon when I need one??)

Maybe the easiest solution is if I make sure I live in a state where it's NOT LEGAL to carry into my home without my permission.

(Now, you can all accuse me of supporting gun control.)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

If I don't know you well, Guess what - I'm not telling you anything about my armed or unarmed science. That's not rocket science either.

I don't recall any state that requires explict permission to enter a home based on concealed carry status.

Kayla, your position is becoming practically untenable and self-contradictory in parts.

If you do want a state to have a law that demands explict notification to enter a private home - then I'm afraid you do fall on the gun control side as that is an unreasonable request and your rationale seems not based on facts but some fear of the carrier.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Quote:
I don't have any problem with someone bringing a firearm into my home

Quote:
there are just too many people in and out of the house and so many different things going on all the time that firearms just don't need to be in the mix.

I am sure you can clarify that, but at first glance the two seem contradictory.

Good point, it is contradictory. The best way to put that is that while I don't generally have issue with someone bringing a firearm to my house, there are occasions where they aren't welcome, so please let me know. If you walk up to my door with your new shotgun, I may say bring it on in and let's have a look, or I may say hey, now isn't the right time.

Not picking on you, but no one has really suggested how to handle this yet: Say you invite me and my wife over for dinner one night, along with a couple of your other friends. We spend the evening enjoying your delicious meal, talking football and economics and football and global warming and football. Two weeks later you find out somehow or other that I have a CWP, and you remember that I kept my jacket on all evening when I visited you.

Just pull me to the side and say, "Hey, I've got my CCW on, just thought you should know", something of that nature. As far as me finding out later, that depends on our relationship and how you conducted yourself. Worst case, you don't come back. In the situation you described, I would probably just mention next time you were invited that I'd appreciate you leaving your weapon in the car, or can lock in my safe if you would rather.

With no disrespect - and I don't have time to write a philosophical piece - that is sheer baloney. If you invite me to your house, I have no responsibility other than not acting in a manner to threaten you or be rude. My personal behavior is not your business.

If one thinks a common behavior is threatening - you need to announce it before I arrive. I have no responsibility to try to discern what phobias and foilbles you might have.

No disrespect intended either, but yes, bringing a weapon into my home, especially concealed, is every bit my business. It's not a common behavior and the "phobias and foibles" of someone who feels the need to constantly carry a gun are definitely my business when that person is in my home.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

If it is your business - you need a sign outside or explicit notification.

Also, if one defines those who carry as phobic as compared to one who fears the licensed carrier - then, I'm afraid - you are part of the gun control crowd.

If someone explicitly invited me to their house and then explicitly told me that they knew or suspected I carry and told me they forbid it - I have no desire to attend their social event.

I would feel the same way as if someone told me that as a Christian, they wanted me to convert to come into their house. Get lost then. I repeat that all I see is some folks who have some issue of control - My cave, my cave! - or some fear - which is no different from that of the gun control crowd that argued to ban carry in mall, movies, churches, etc.

PS - carry is common among my circles of paranoia who own guns.

[Evan Thomas]

Weighing in on this kinda late, but the whole discussion seems odd to me. If I don't know you well, and generally trust you, you're not going to be invited to my home. Period. End of discussion. If I know you well enough to invite you, I don't care whether or not you're carrying. There are plenty of ways to get together with people I know less well: we can meet at a restaurant or a bar, take the dog for a walk, go canoeing with the gang, heck, meet at the mall and go shopping (just kidding :barf... anywhere that's neutral turf. But if you're not a pretty good friend, you don't get invited to my house.

Kayla, I understand your point about "my house, my rules." But it seems strange to me that you'd want someone (especially a guy) in your house at all if you'd only be comfortable knowing he wasn't armed. Meet him somewhere else, if you must (again, why, if you already know you don't trust him?), but he doesn't have to come to your house...

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove

The best way to put that is that while I don't generally have issue with someone bringing a firearm to my house, there are occasions where they aren't welcome, so please let me know. If you walk up to my door with your new shotgun, I may say bring it on in and let's have a look, or I may say hey, now isn't the right time.

This seems to me to be a completely separate issue. Of course there might be times when you didn't want guns being handled, or lying around, but that's a bit different from someone's discreetly (and there's no other way ) carrying concealed.

[bababooey32]

bringing a weapon into my home, especially concealed, is every bit my business

Do you notify all of your guests with a complete list of items that are not allowed in your house? Is a gun the only item you forbid to be carried in your home? If so, why only guns? A 6in Ka-Bar doesn't bother you but a Seecamp does? How about an aluminum baseball bat?

Seems to me that if I keep my _____________ [insert item of choice here] out of sight and unused while in your home, it is none of your business. I don't announce my cell phone, why would I announce my Ruger LCP? Both are tools that i use for safety.

[pax]

Just a quick comment about paranoia.

Think about it: who's really more paranoid, the person who wants to be prepared in the admittedly-unlikely event that a criminal might try to commit a violent crime? Or the person who wants EVERYONE ELSE around them to be less able to protect themselves than they are?

pax

[Buzzcook]

Their house their rules. Pretty simple ain't it?

[Dr. Strangelove]

The paranoia bit was brought up by someone else, I was just trying to illustrate that what one person sees as normal can be interpreted as paranoia by another. Is someone paranoid because they carry all the time? Is someone paranoid because they ask people to tell them when they bring a weapon into their home? Depends on your point of view.

Do you notify all of your guests with a complete list of items that are not allowed in your house? Is a gun the only item you forbid to be carried in your home? If so, why only guns? A 6in Ka-Bar doesn't bother you but a Seecamp does? How about an aluminum baseball bat?

'Course not. I ask them to use common sense. I have a Ka-Bar, too; but I don't wear it around the house. If we aren't going to the woods, I'm likely to ask why you are wearing one. Aluminum baseball bat? Are we playing baseball? If not, I'm probably gonna question why you need to carry it.

There are obviously strong feeling on both sides of this issue. Asking that people carrying weapons into my home let me know that fact isn't unreasonable or anti-gun. For those who insist they would not attend a function that disallowed firearms, there are that many who would not attend if they were allowed, and neither camp is "right". It's up to each person to decide.

I repeat that all I see is some folks who have some issue of control - My cave, my cave! - or some fear - which is no different from that of the gun control crowd that argued to ban carry in mall, movies, churches, etc.

You're right - but it seems both sides have a control issue. Insistence on carrying everywhere is no more or less a control issue than someone controlling what comes into their "cave".

[Nytro]

Interesting thread. Many good points, lots of opinions. I recently got my carry permit from the state of Florida (that process was scarier than the thought of someone carrying into my home) so I'm sure eventually I will be faced with the decision to carry or not to carry to a friends house. Whether I decide to carry or not, I certainly wouldn't volunteer my decision upon entering. I agree with Kayla 100% about the part my house, my rules. As far as carrying a weapon goes, I only invite friends into my house and I have already have an opinion about them and they would know how I feel about issues. On the other hand I present this scenerio, last year I went to a Christmas party at a friends house, her son is an Air Marshall and had flown in for a visit and within two or three hours he was very very drunk. It was never established whether or not he was carrying but I did mention to his mother that if he was it would certainly be inappropiate considering his level of intoxication. She spoke to him and a few minutes later he left for his room and when he returned he was not wearing his suit jacket so I assumed he was armed and left his weapon in his room. I guess there is no real difinitive answer to the question posed here, to each his own.

On a lighter side I would add that when I was single I use to insist to any date that I brought to my house that before she entered I would have to do a complete search to make sure she wasn't carrying, sometimes it would be a quick once over but other times it would involve the removal of clothing and much much more, just to make sure I wasn't going to be harmed. JK

[Phoebe]

I must know dumber people than some of you all know.

It isn't like I think I am letting some BG in who will go crazy and shoot everyone with his concealed weapon!! lol!

But I know some people who I think may lack some basic common sense, and that may extend to their notions of firearm safety. It doesn't ruin my friendship with them or make them unwelcome in my house. But if I don't trust their judgment, why would I want them armed?

Funny that lots of people have agreed with me (I'd guess half), but somehow everyone is arguing with me like I'm the only one who has said, "my house/my rules."

And yes, in my house, I suppose I am a control freak.

[bababooey32]

Asking that people carrying weapons into my home let me know that fact isn't unreasonable or anti-gun.

I respectfully disagree. And, BTW, you are asking only to have GUNS declared at the door, not weapons. A 4in folder in my pocket will kill you as fast or faster than my LCP - you have only requested to be informed about one of them. That is both unreasonable and "anti-gun" (literally).

Furthermore, it is borderline illegal for me to "declare" that I am carrying a concealed firearm. Part of "concealed" is being discreet. If I have to tell everyone I meet that I am carrying so they can decide if they are offended, I have defeated the purpose of said concealment.

Insistence on carrying everywhere is no more or less a control issue than someone controlling what comes into their "cave".

Insisting on carrying everywhere is insisting on being safe everywhere. It's not about control...Insisting that people cease protecting themselves to ease some(?) concern is about control. I added the "?" because I'm not yet sure what the concern is over? Being on this board means you are not anti-gun, so why do you care if a friend responsibly carries in your home. Keep in mind, "responsible" means that you would never know they were carrying!

[Skans]

I subscribe to "don't ask don't tell". I'm not going to make an issue out of someone carrying a gun into my home....just make it a point to keep it your business and not mine. If I'm letting you anywhere near my home in the first place I already have a good deal of trust in you.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Quote:
Asking that people carrying weapons into my home let me know that fact isn't unreasonable or anti-gun.

I respectfully disagree. And, BTW, you are asking only to have GUNS declared at the door, not weapons. A 4in folder in my pocket will kill you as fast or faster than my LCP - you have only requested to be informed about one of them. That is both unreasonable and "anti-gun" (literally).

Furthermore, it is borderline illegal for me to "declare" that I am carrying a concealed firearm. Part of "concealed" is being discreet. If I have to tell everyone I meet that I am carrying so they can decide if they are offended, I have defeated the purpose of said concealment.

You are welcome to disagree, it doesn't bother me at all that we don't see the same on this issue. We each have our own opinions, but, in my home, I get to set the rules. Reasonable or unreasonable? My reasonable may be your unreasonable and vice-versa.

[TailGator]

And others who are thinking similarly,

I have to confess - I did something rotten and baited you. Read this again:

Quote:
Not picking on you, but no one has really suggested how to handle this yet: Say you invite me and my wife over for dinner one night, along with a couple of your other friends. We spend the evening enjoying your delicious meal, talking football and economics and football and global warming and football. Two weeks later you find out somehow or other that I have a CWP, and you remember that I kept my jacket on all evening when I visited you.

Just pull me to the side and say, "Hey, I've got my CCW on, just thought you should know", something of that nature. As far as me finding out later, that depends on our relationship and how you conducted yourself. Worst case, you don't come back. In the situation you described, I would probably just mention next time you were invited that I'd appreciate you leaving your weapon in the car, or can lock in my safe if you would rather.

I didn't say I was carrying. I said I had a permit and I kept my jacket on. You never knew whether I was carrying or not, yet you leaped to a conclusion that would have had you either sever a friendship ("don't come back") or making a possibly inappropriate comment to me on the next invitation.

Now, as it turns out, with me your assumption would have been correct, but if you only saw a jacket and the firearm was not an issue during our evening, why is it an issue later and how were you either threatened, had your safety compromised, or offended? The fact is, if we had the same evening and you did not investigate me - and in the scenario I described, I didn't give you any cause to investigate me - I could have made that and many return visits to your home without your ever knowing that I was safely and discretely carrying a perfectly legal tool for the defense of myself, my family, and the friends I am with, including, for those moments, you. That is what I am not getting - what is the objection? (This is not hypothetical. I have friends that I have known for many years who don't know that I carry. Advertising concealed carry negates it.) "My house, my rules." OK, but rules usually have a purpose. I am not seducing your wife, annoying your pets, damaging your home, or making a nuisance of myself - I just have this thing on my belt. What is the purpose of your rule that I must leave my firearm in my car, unattended, and subject to theft and possible use against you and, what is worse, me?

[Evan Thomas]

Originally Posted by kayla

But I know some people who I think may lack some basic common sense, and that may extend to their notions of firearm safety. It doesn't ruin my friendship with them or make them unwelcome in my house. But if I don't trust their judgment, why would I want them armed?

If you don't trust their judgment, why would you welcome them into your "castle?"

Past a very basic level, it's not about people's notions of firearm safety. If someone is carrying concealed, and doing so responsibly, which is to say legally and with the gun properly secured, not just stuck in a waistband or whatever, then it's safe. There's no reason for it to come out; no reason anyone, including you, has to know it's there. If you don't think a particular individual is responsible enough to know and follow those basic rules, I can only repeat: why, especially as someone who is clearly concerned about her own safety and committed to protecting herself, would you want such a person in your house at all? (And if you think they're irresponsible enough to be carrying illegally.... 'nuff said. You don't need people like that as friends.)

Concealed means concealed. If I thought that someone was dumb enough not to get that, so that he'd be liable to come into my house and draw a concealed handgun without a sufficient reason -- -- I wouldn't want him there in the first place. Might go to the mall with him , but if people have that little common sense, they're not coming to my house.

My house, my rules: I don't trust people who lack basic common sense, and I'll socialize with them elsewhere, if at all.