wheel vs semi,10mm vs 41mag?

ninjatoth · June 12, 2009, 07:44 PM

Both of these calibers offer a 175 grain bullet.The superX by winchester in .41 mag revolver is 175grain 607 ft lbs from a 4" barrel.The 10mm is 175grain 649 ft lbs from a 5.5" automatic barrel.10mm=1290fps 649FPE. .41Mag=1250fps 607FPE.Judging by the slightly shorter barrel the .41 was tested at,I can safely say they are almost the exact same as far as energy,but what would you rather have,a 10mm auto,or a .41 revolver?

BillCA · June 12, 2009, 07:51 PM

I think my preference is obvious....

S&W Model 657, .41 Magnum, 3-inch, circa 1986.

S&W Models 57 and 58, .41 Magnum

jmr40 · June 12, 2009, 08:45 PM

Depends on the use. Only the lightest 41 mag loads are close to 10mm in terms of power. For a hunting gun I would rather have the revolver. It will be more powerful and when fired single action will be more accurate.

The best 10mm loads are actually closer to heavy 357 mag loads (which ain't bad) and is my choice for a backpacking gun where 2 or 4 legged predators are a concern. My Glock 20 is lighter, smaller and more accurate in rapid fire than any of my 44 or 357 revolvers. 16 rounds on hand is comforting as well.

Thermodyne · June 12, 2009, 08:51 PM

41 Mag is a dam good pistol, but I think I'd stay with my 10mm. Both rounds suffer prom the popularity of their bigger and smaller cousins. I almost bought a 10mm revolver some years ago, today I wish I had.

mnhntr · June 12, 2009, 08:53 PM

The .41 mag would be my choice for any application. For hunting it would be a 6-8in barrel. For SD or CCW it would be a 3in barrel. For all around it would be a 4in barrel. All choices would be a S&W 57, 58, or 657 model.

Stevie-Ray · June 12, 2009, 09:00 PM

I'd far prefer the 10mm, mostly because it's an auto, and also because I've relied on it for over 20 years. I don't care for large-frame revolvers.

orionengnr · June 12, 2009, 09:15 PM

I view the .41 Mag as a viable cartridge and am rapidly coming to prefer it to the .357. (Being a reloader helps.)

The 10mm is a good cartridge, but I see it as an alternative to (not a replacement for) the .45.

I can (perhaps) see myself selling my .357s and going .41 Mag.

There is no way I can see myself selling my .45s and going with the 10mm.

JMHO.

drail · June 12, 2009, 09:22 PM

I have an old pinned/recessed M57 4 in. that I will never replace. It is my absolute favorite revolver. Second place goes to an old .41 Bisley that will hit a 5 gal. bucket at 300 yards if I hold my mouth just right. I do think that a 10mm revolver with moon clips is an awful attractive weapon for CCW work. I wish I had bought a 610 when they first intoduced them. They are both excellent cartridges, especially when handloaded.

liberty1 · June 12, 2009, 09:27 PM

G29 10mm for me. I have a few revolvers but always carry the auto for serious work.
If only for hunting I would go with something bigger than both the 10 or the 41.

s4s4u · June 12, 2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

.41Mag=1250fps 607FPE

That is a real kandiass load for a 170something bullet. I get 1650 FPS with a 170 Sierra from my Bisley Hunter 41. If you can get a 10mm to do that I would like to see it.

Mello2u · June 13, 2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

s4s4u

Quote:

.41Mag=1250fps 607FPE

That is a real kandiass load for a 170something bullet. I get 1650 FPS with a 170 Sierra from my Bisley Hunter 41. If you can get a 10mm to do that I would like to see it.

Does your Hunter have a 7 and 1/2" barrel?
If you compare it to a 6" barrel on a 10mm auto a 165gr bullet would probably do 1500fps. So the .41 mag still has greater energy, but it is not all that much.

Double Tap lists their Golden Saber 165gr bullet load as:
1425fps/ 744ft./lbs. - Glock 20 (4.6" barrel)

If you can find a manufactured load for the .41 mag in 210gr @1400fps (that used to be available); that compares to the 10mm load of a 200gr @ 1250fps.
The .41 mag here again comes out on top.

Another consideration is that the .41 mag in a revolver is limited to 6 rounds, and an auto is from 9 rounds to 16 rounds before reloading.

The deciding factor between these two handguns for me in choosing a defensive handgun for concealed carry is:
The 1911 is slimmer than the N-framed S&W and secondly I greatly prefer the trigger action of the 1911.

On the other hand, I was going for open carry walking around on private land, I'd choose the .41 mag. Then I'd have to choose between the model 57 and 58.

It is sure easier to save my brass for reloading when I shoot a revolver outdoors compared to searching for the brass that the auto flings off somewhere.

BillCA · June 13, 2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

That is a real kandiass load for a 170something bullet. I get 1650 FPS with a 170 Sierra from my Bisley Hunter 41. If you can get a 10mm to do that I would like to see it.

The Winchester Silvertip 175g .41 Mag @1250 fps is, according to WW, a hunting load, but it is also suitable as a defensive load from most .41's. Energy is excellent, recoil is moderate and flah is low thanks to retardants.

One of the biggest "failings" in the .41 Magnum ammo selection is a true self-defense load that offers good power without lots of recoil. A 210g SWC at around 1000 fps or a good JHP that will open at that velocity is needed.

The original Remington 210g JSP load was advertised at 1500 fps, but that was from a 7" test barrel. Real life examples were closer to 1420 fps. Later they set the velocity at 1300 fps. Speer's Gold Dot 210gr JHP is an excellent load - at 1300fps - for hunting. The heavy recoil and flash-boom make it less than ideal for SD.

Jim March · June 14, 2009, 01:41 AM

You cannot judge relatively obscure (compared to a lot of others!) cartridges like the 41Mag and 10mm by browsing Winchester's site.

These are high-performance rounds and are best served by small ammo houses that specialize in brewing up "the good stuff". The three best are DoubleTap Ammo, Buffalo Bore and Grizzly Ammo...the latter only does hunting hardcasts.

When you understand how far THOSE guys push these babies, then you'll understand what's possible with them. (You can get close to these guys with careful handloading but at the ragged edge, they have pressure test gear and access to funky powders and you don't. That's why this stuff is so pricey...)

DoubleTap started out as a 10mm specialty house, so let's look there first:

---
10mm 180gr. Controlled Exp. JHP 50rds. $38.95

This loading provides a hunter with a controlled expansion bullet at serious speeds!

Caliber : 10mm

Bullet : 180gr. Controlled Expansion JHP

Ballistics : 180gr. @ 1350fps/ 728 ft/lbs- Glock 20

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=122
---

Trust me: Winchester has NOTHING like that!

Browse the rest of their 10mm here:

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...hp?cPath=21_25

Tim Sundles at Buffalo Bore is more of a revolver guy so let's look at his 41Maggies:

---
Heavy .41 Magnum Ammo - 170 gr. J.H.P. (1,650 fps/M.E. 1,028 ft. lbs.) - Item "16C"

Check these velocities taken from real guns.

1. 6.5" Ruger

c. Item #16C - 1640 fps

2. 4" S&W Mountain Gun

c. Item #16C - 1551 fps

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...ct_detail&p=95
---

Upshot: both are powerhouses but the 41Mag is at around 1/4 more potent.

As an aside: the best Buffalo Bore 357 loads are matching the 10mm. So it's no surprise the 41 is winning out when you take it to the edge.

Which one is really better? Loaded to the max, both the 10mm and 41 are reasonable personal defense loads for black bear, and could hunt deer and boar up to a reasonable size...run into the rare 600lb piggie and yeah, you'll be wishing you had more. Like maybe an airstrike

.

BillCA · June 14, 2009, 07:54 PM

Jim,

The .41 Mag is an excellent pig gun, even in a 4" barrel. I've never run across a 600 pounder... if I do, I'll use shotgun slugs!

Others have used the .41 to good advantage hunting hogs and medium sized deer. Someone here or on the S&W forum says he used his 7" M657 to drop an Elk out at 50-some yards.

Where the .41 does much better than a lot guns is in the lower-end SD loads, like the original 210gr "police" load. A harder bullet to prevent leading is desireable, poking along around 1000 to 1050 fps from a 4" barrel. The few shootings where the original police load was used showed it to be very potent on 2-legged varmints.

IMHO, Only when you are facing extremely large and/or dangerous game do you need 1600 fps out of either the 10mm or .41 Mag. Facing a mean brown/grizz bear I'd prefer to be armed with a bazooka. But high end loads like Buffalo Bore's, if well placed, should settle the argument in my favor.

The difference of being shot with either gun is going to be similar to the difference between walking in front of the subway or a Union Pacific train.

June 12, 2009, 07:51 PM	#2
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	I think my preference is obvious.... S&W Model 657, .41 Magnum, 3-inch, circa 1986. S&W Models 57 and 58, .41 Magnum __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

June 12, 2009, 09:00 PM	#6
Stevie-Ray Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The shores of Lake Huron Posts: 4,783	I'd far prefer the 10mm, mostly because it's an auto, and also because I've relied on it for over 20 years. I don't care for large-frame revolvers. __________________ Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.

June 14, 2009, 01:41 AM	#13
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	You cannot judge relatively obscure (compared to a lot of others!) cartridges like the 41Mag and 10mm by browsing Winchester's site. These are high-performance rounds and are best served by small ammo houses that specialize in brewing up "the good stuff". The three best are DoubleTap Ammo, Buffalo Bore and Grizzly Ammo...the latter only does hunting hardcasts. When you understand how far THOSE guys push these babies, then you'll understand what's possible with them. (You can get close to these guys with careful handloading but at the ragged edge, they have pressure test gear and access to funky powders and you don't. That's why this stuff is so pricey...) DoubleTap started out as a 10mm specialty house, so let's look there first: --- 10mm 180gr. Controlled Exp. JHP 50rds. $38.95 This loading provides a hunter with a controlled expansion bullet at serious speeds! Caliber : 10mm Bullet : 180gr. Controlled Expansion JHP Ballistics : 180gr. @ 1350fps/ 728 ft/lbs- Glock 20 http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...roducts_id=122 --- Trust me: Winchester has NOTHING like that! Browse the rest of their 10mm here: http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/cat...hp?cPath=21_25 Tim Sundles at Buffalo Bore is more of a revolver guy so let's look at his 41Maggies: --- Heavy .41 Magnum Ammo - 170 gr. J.H.P. (1,650 fps/M.E. 1,028 ft. lbs.) - Item "16C" Check these velocities taken from real guns. 1. 6.5" Ruger c. Item #16C - 1640 fps 2. 4" S&W Mountain Gun c. Item #16C - 1551 fps http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php...ct_detail&p=95 --- Upshot: both are powerhouses but the 41Mag is at around 1/4 more potent. As an aside: the best Buffalo Bore 357 loads are matching the 10mm. So it's no surprise the 41 is winning out when you take it to the edge. Which one is really better? Loaded to the max, both the 10mm and 41 are reasonable personal defense loads for black bear, and could hunt deer and boar up to a reasonable size...run into the rare 600lb piggie and yeah, you'll be wishing you had more. Like maybe an airstrike . __________________ Jim March

June 14, 2009, 07:54 PM	#14
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Jim, The .41 Mag is an excellent pig gun, even in a 4" barrel. I've never run across a 600 pounder... if I do, I'll use shotgun slugs! Others have used the .41 to good advantage hunting hogs and medium sized deer. Someone here or on the S&W forum says he used his 7" M657 to drop an Elk out at 50-some yards. Where the .41 does much better than a lot guns is in the lower-end SD loads, like the original 210gr "police" load. A harder bullet to prevent leading is desireable, poking along around 1000 to 1050 fps from a 4" barrel. The few shootings where the original police load was used showed it to be very potent on 2-legged varmints. IMHO, Only when you are facing extremely large and/or dangerous game do you need 1600 fps out of either the 10mm or .41 Mag. Facing a mean brown/grizz bear I'd prefer to be armed with a bazooka. But high end loads like Buffalo Bore's, if well placed, should settle the argument in my favor. The difference of being shot with either gun is going to be similar to the difference between walking in front of the subway or a Union Pacific train. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

June 12, 2009, 07:44 PM	#1
ninjatoth Junior member Join Date: March 21, 2009 Location: sanford,mi Posts: 590	wheel vs semi,10mm vs 41mag? Both of these calibers offer a 175 grain bullet.The superX by winchester in .41 mag revolver is 175grain 607 ft lbs from a 4" barrel.The 10mm is 175grain 649 ft lbs from a 5.5" automatic barrel.10mm=1290fps 649FPE. .41Mag=1250fps 607FPE.Judging by the slightly shorter barrel the .41 was tested at,I can safely say they are almost the exact same as far as energy,but what would you rather have,a 10mm auto,or a .41 revolver? Last edited by ninjatoth; June 12, 2009 at 08:00 PM.

June 12, 2009, 08:45 PM	#3
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,811	Depends on the use. Only the lightest 41 mag loads are close to 10mm in terms of power. For a hunting gun I would rather have the revolver. It will be more powerful and when fired single action will be more accurate. The best 10mm loads are actually closer to heavy 357 mag loads (which ain't bad) and is my choice for a backpacking gun where 2 or 4 legged predators are a concern. My Glock 20 is lighter, smaller and more accurate in rapid fire than any of my 44 or 357 revolvers. 16 rounds on hand is comforting as well.

June 12, 2009, 08:51 PM	#4
Thermodyne Senior Member Join Date: June 2, 2009 Posts: 111	41 Mag is a dam good pistol, but I think I'd stay with my 10mm. Both rounds suffer prom the popularity of their bigger and smaller cousins. I almost bought a 10mm revolver some years ago, today I wish I had.

June 12, 2009, 08:53 PM	#5
mnhntr Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2008 Posts: 972	The .41 mag would be my choice for any application. For hunting it would be a 6-8in barrel. For SD or CCW it would be a 3in barrel. For all around it would be a 4in barrel. All choices would be a S&W 57, 58, or 657 model.

June 12, 2009, 09:15 PM	#7
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	I view the .41 Mag as a viable cartridge and am rapidly coming to prefer it to the .357. (Being a reloader helps.) The 10mm is a good cartridge, but I see it as an alternative to (not a replacement for) the .45. I can (perhaps) see myself selling my .357s and going .41 Mag. There is no way I can see myself selling my .45s and going with the 10mm. JMHO.

June 12, 2009, 09:22 PM	#8
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	I have an old pinned/recessed M57 4 in. that I will never replace. It is my absolute favorite revolver. Second place goes to an old .41 Bisley that will hit a 5 gal. bucket at 300 yards if I hold my mouth just right. I do think that a 10mm revolver with moon clips is an awful attractive weapon for CCW work. I wish I had bought a 610 when they first intoduced them. They are both excellent cartridges, especially when handloaded.

June 12, 2009, 09:27 PM	#9
liberty1 Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: colorado Posts: 281	G29 10mm for me. I have a few revolvers but always carry the auto for serious work. If only for hunting I would go with something bigger than both the 10 or the 41.