Best .40 Factory Round for SD (165gr JHP vs 180gr JHP) - Page 2

vox rationis · February 2, 2009, 09:15 PM

I carry Ranger (RA40T) Winchester 180 grain JHP's. Not only do most gurus highly rate these (although the illusion of greatness is often greater than the reality, both in highly rated rounds and in gurus

), but they have low flash, and I find them very controllable.

I have tried shooting the full power Speer Gold Dot's in 165 grains (there was a reduced power 165 grain Gold Dot load that apparently didn't perform well), but I find that their recoil is increased enough so as to cause a degradation in my shooting ability. I could probably practice and get better with them, but I buy into the theory that at handgun velocities heavier is generally better anyway, so there is no reason to invest time in getting good with the 165'ers.

This is a list of loads that supposedly has been tested and do quite well based on FBI testing parameters as published in tacticalforums.com

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (Q4355)

camaro_thunder92 · February 2, 2009, 10:47 PM

I carry Hornady 180gr JHP's. I did a lot of research before choosing a round, and the 180gr. do perform better in close quarters. You don't have to worry about your round potentially making it through your intended target, and into something else behind it. The heavier rounds are also slower and "hit" harder than the lighter, faster rounds. Ask the US army about the stopping power of ammo.

They used to use .45 Long colt, and decided to try out the lighter, faster .38 Long Colt (Phillipine Rebellion of 1899), but after almost losing the battle, they decided to go back to the .45 Long Colt. It all boils down to stopping power.

gglass · February 2, 2009, 11:41 PM

Unfortunately, the information on the handloads.com website is dated and is based on a book that has been out for some time. The best handgun SD ammunition available today is not listed in that compilation of data. The Federal HST line of ammunition is the newest ammunition technology and is actually designed by the father of Starfire and Hydra-Shok bullets.

Follow the links on the below page to see LE department testing of HST against the current best of LE ammunition. The tests were sponsored by Federal, but the testing was conducted by LE agencies.

http://le.atk.com/general/irl/woundballistics.aspx

Yes... It always expands like this. No other ammunition can match the expansion, penetration and weight retention of HST.

Erik · February 3, 2009, 01:39 PM

Up to date and for your information:

Currently and as of last quarter, both of the federal government's ISO 9000 labs dealing with law enforcement recommend .40 S&W 180 grain JHPs for issue to the various federal, state and local entities they service. Previously, the labs were split between 180 and 155 varieties.

scorpiusdeus · February 5, 2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

federal government's ISO 9000 labs dealing with law enforcement

So go with anything BUT those...

Seriously though. Most modern HP rounds made by reputable manufacturers are going to do the job well. In any given shooting I doubt that Having shot the same bad guy in the same place the same number of times, one round is going to make THAT big a difference over another with Quality ammo.

LoneStarWings · February 6, 2009, 09:47 PM

Well I picked up a box of 165gr Federal HST's today. I wanted the 180's but the store was out of those. I went through 20 rounds at the range and everything went well. The recoil feels a bit lighter than the 180gr rounds, but not much of a difference, and there were no malfunctions aside from my mediocre-at-best marksmanship.. Maybe I will test the expansion myself on some milk jugs/water next time I go to the ranch. In the meantime I will keep these HST's in my M&P's mags.

WESHOOT2 · February 7, 2009, 09:34 AM

I use and recommend 135g JHP bullets for civilian defense ammo (except, oddly, my 40 S&W-chambered 1911 is currently loaded with my 155g Silvertip load).

Potential civilian 'best' comes with the 135--165g offerings.

I used to offer a short-barrel 1300fps 135g load, but now I don't offer anything. Except experienced advice....

ohioguardsman88 · February 7, 2009, 09:35 AM

you can't go wrong with the 180g rd.

longeyes · February 7, 2009, 06:56 PM

I have Ranger 180g in my Glock 23. I like the penetration and the lower recoil. If I wanted a lighter bullet I'd shoot 9mm.

45reloader · February 7, 2009, 07:53 PM

http://www.brassfetcher.com/40%20S&W.html

EricReynolds · February 7, 2009, 08:12 PM

I personally use Remington 180 and have never had a problem.

Diamond LawDawg · June 15, 2009, 12:32 AM

Winchester Supreme Elite Bonded (PDX1) 165 gr jhp.........retired PO and I don't leave home without it...

Nnobby45 · June 15, 2009, 02:27 AM

It's been said that there aren't any bad HP's in .40 cal.

US Border Patrol has used generic Rem. JHP's, I think 155 gr., and they've worked fine.

Golden Saber 165 grs. were my choice until DPX and HST came along. Now, I either load up with 165 HST or DPX, and in either case, carry HST or GS for backkup.

Haven't been able to get any 155 or I might carry that.

I use a similar formula when I carry .45.-- with 230 for HST and Golden Saber, and DPX 180 gr.

And of course, there are those who couldn't sleep at night without their nearby pistol being loaded up with 185 gr.s

February 2, 2009, 11:41 PM	#28
gglass Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 638	Unfortunately, the information on the handloads.com website is dated and is based on a book that has been out for some time. The best handgun SD ammunition available today is not listed in that compilation of data. The Federal HST line of ammunition is the newest ammunition technology and is actually designed by the father of Starfire and Hydra-Shok bullets. Follow the links on the below page to see LE department testing of HST against the current best of LE ammunition. The tests were sponsored by Federal, but the testing was conducted by LE agencies. http://le.atk.com/general/irl/woundballistics.aspx Yes... It always expands like this. No other ammunition can match the expansion, penetration and weight retention of HST. __________________ "...shall not be infringed." (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states).

February 3, 2009, 01:39 PM	#29
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	Up to date and for your information: Currently and as of last quarter, both of the federal government's ISO 9000 labs dealing with law enforcement recommend .40 S&W 180 grain JHPs for issue to the various federal, state and local entities they service. Previously, the labs were split between 180 and 155 varieties. __________________ Meriam Webster's: Main Entry: ci·vil·ian Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\, Function: noun, Date: 14th century, 1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law, 2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1, — civilian adjective

February 7, 2009, 09:34 AM	#32
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	optimum I use and recommend 135g JHP bullets for civilian defense ammo (except, oddly, my 40 S&W-chambered 1911 is currently loaded with my 155g Silvertip load). Potential civilian 'best' comes with the 135--165g offerings. I used to offer a short-barrel 1300fps 135g load, but now I don't offer anything. Except experienced advice.... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

February 7, 2009, 09:35 AM	#33
ohioguardsman88 Member Join Date: January 8, 2009 Location: OH-IO (est.1803) Posts: 69	180g you can't go wrong with the 180g rd. __________________ In God We Trust

February 7, 2009, 06:56 PM	#34
longeyes Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2000 Location: True West Posts: 1,350	I have Ranger 180g in my Glock 23. I like the penetration and the lower recoil. If I wanted a lighter bullet I'd shoot 9mm. __________________ "You come far, Pilgrim." "Feels like far." "Were it worth the trouble?" "Ah...what trouble?" ~Jeremiah Johnson

February 2, 2009, 09:15 PM	#26
vox rationis Senior Member Join Date: April 15, 2007 Posts: 1,855	I carry Ranger (RA40T) Winchester 180 grain JHP's. Not only do most gurus highly rate these (although the illusion of greatness is often greater than the reality, both in highly rated rounds and in gurus ), but they have low flash, and I find them very controllable. I have tried shooting the full power Speer Gold Dot's in 165 grains (there was a reduced power 165 grain Gold Dot load that apparently didn't perform well), but I find that their recoil is increased enough so as to cause a degradation in my shooting ability. I could probably practice and get better with them, but I buy into the theory that at handgun velocities heavier is generally better anyway, so there is no reason to invest time in getting good with the 165'ers. This is a list of loads that supposedly has been tested and do quite well based on FBI testing parameters as published in tacticalforums.com .40 S&W: Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet) Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3) Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA) Winchester Partition Gold 165 gr JHP (RA401P) Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1) Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1) Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB) Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T) Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (Q4355)

February 2, 2009, 10:47 PM	#27
camaro_thunder92 Member Join Date: September 2, 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 17	I carry Hornady 180gr JHP's. I did a lot of research before choosing a round, and the 180gr. do perform better in close quarters. You don't have to worry about your round potentially making it through your intended target, and into something else behind it. The heavier rounds are also slower and "hit" harder than the lighter, faster rounds. Ask the US army about the stopping power of ammo. They used to use .45 Long colt, and decided to try out the lighter, faster .38 Long Colt (Phillipine Rebellion of 1899), but after almost losing the battle, they decided to go back to the .45 Long Colt. It all boils down to stopping power.

February 6, 2009, 09:47 PM	#31
LoneStarWings Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2009 Location: TX Posts: 213	Well I picked up a box of 165gr Federal HST's today. I wanted the 180's but the store was out of those. I went through 20 rounds at the range and everything went well. The recoil feels a bit lighter than the 180gr rounds, but not much of a difference, and there were no malfunctions aside from my mediocre-at-best marksmanship.. Maybe I will test the expansion myself on some milk jugs/water next time I go to the ranch. In the meantime I will keep these HST's in my M&P's mags.

February 7, 2009, 07:53 PM	#35
45reloader Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2006 Location: PA Posts: 669	http://www.brassfetcher.com/40%20S&W.html __________________ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" T Jeff.

February 7, 2009, 08:12 PM	#36
EricReynolds Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 393	I personally use Remington 180 and have never had a problem.

June 15, 2009, 12:32 AM	#37
Diamond LawDawg Member Join Date: May 19, 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 75	Glock 27 Winchester Supreme Elite Bonded (PDX1) 165 gr jhp.........retired PO and I don't leave home without it...

June 15, 2009, 02:27 AM	#38
Nnobby45 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2004 Posts: 3,150	It's been said that there aren't any bad HP's in .40 cal. US Border Patrol has used generic Rem. JHP's, I think 155 gr., and they've worked fine. Golden Saber 165 grs. were my choice until DPX and HST came along. Now, I either load up with 165 HST or DPX, and in either case, carry HST or GS for backkup. Haven't been able to get any 155 or I might carry that. I use a similar formula when I carry .45.-- with 230 for HST and Golden Saber, and DPX 180 gr. And of course, there are those who couldn't sleep at night without their nearby pistol being loaded up with 185 gr.s Last edited by Nnobby45; June 15, 2009 at 02:40 AM.