Mine is bigger than YOURS! - Page 3

KSFreeman · November 25, 2002, 06:34 PM

Devil Dog (aka runt), this is War Rocket. Thanks for posting that. Have not seen one of those in a while.

In another life, when I was younger and much better looking and could live forever.

Steve Smith · November 25, 2002, 06:37 PM

Mike, I saw what you're talking about before I posted...case length plus operating gear would take up most of the turret space. Is the chamber IN the turret or in the base of the barrel? Forgive my ignorance of naval guns.

Long Path · November 25, 2002, 06:50 PM

Hey Runt! Get Oleg to take a pic of the headstamp and primer (primer pocket? I know a lot of naval guns were primed with 12 ga blanks...).

Great thread! Man, when people ask me what is the ideal kind of topic for General, I always am at a loss. But this thread is the epitome of just kewl things to learn about, totally gun related!

Betty · November 25, 2002, 07:45 PM

More pics:

There's also a large stenciled block of the text on the side of the shell which we didn't photograph. We couldn't polish that area because it would remove the stenciling.

And heeeeere's a photo that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, but I'll post it anyway because I now have complete access to uploading junk onto Oleg's server:

Anyone like turtle soup?

**4V50 Gary** · November 25, 2002, 08:16 PM

Runt (or "four fingers"), isn't that a snapper (the turtle, not the toddler

)?

K80Geoff · November 25, 2002, 08:44 PM

The casings were ejected out the front of the turret through the little hatches visible under the gun tubes.

Mike is correct, no crew needed as the guns were automated. That's why the explosion on the Newport News did not result in casualties like the Iowa's blow up.

Read about it on the Warships1 website.

**Mike Irwin** · November 25, 2002, 08:48 PM

OH FOR GOD'S SAKES!

One of the photos on Warships1 SAYS, quite clearly, that those hatches are the ejection ports for spent cases.

I didn't see that before. Sigh.

Steve, the breechblock and chamber are in the turret, and there's a surprisingly small amount of gun inside of the turret for what you see outside.

This illustration is for the 5"/38 GP mount that was used so effectively during WW II. Turret design is, obviously, much different, but the relative ratios are about the same, I believe, for turret depth, gun outside to breech inside ratio, etc.

Tamara · November 25, 2002, 11:30 PM

Quote:

One of the photos on Warships1 SAYS, quite clearly, that those hatches are the ejection ports for spent cases.

Sounds like my kinda website. Off to do a Google. (Or is it just Warships1.com?)

**Mike Irwin** · November 26, 2002, 12:05 AM

www.warships1.com

An AMAZING resource site for information about ships and the weapons mounted on them.

Photos, ship histories, tons of technical information, etc.

They even have some chatroom, but you need a popup killer to go there or you'll drown.

Coronach · November 26, 2002, 12:20 AM

Wow! Yeah Mike, great site. Witness:

Quote:

25 Feb

Naval forces, including USS Wisconsin and USS Missouri, are continuing naval gunfire support and other operations. Missouri alone fires 133 rounds or 125 tons of ordnance on targets. Minesweepers cleared additional fire support areas for the battleships.

Twenty-four hours into the ground campaign, Iraqis manning the Kuwait Silkworm missile sites fired two anti-ship missiles at Missouri. The first landed harmlessly between Missouri and USS Jarrett (FFG 33). The second, headed straight for Missouri, but was intercepted by two Sea Dart missiles from the British warship HMS Gloucester (D 96). MISSOURI launched a RPV back down the bearing of the incoming missile. It found, a burned out abandoned missile site. A thousand yards south of it was a new Silkworm battery, including launching rails and camouflage right on the beach. A control truck was on a hill overlooking the site.

MISSOURI engaged the site with her main battery. The first 16-inch round was correct in bearing, perhaps a hundred yards short of the battery in range. The second round was about two hundred yards long.
After just a few more rounds, the RPV's camera showed that the men who had been operating the missile site were running for their lives. The battleship poured in about fifty rounds at a range of twenty miles and neutralized the battery."

You learn something new every day!

Mike

Lord Grey Boots · November 26, 2002, 12:39 AM

OKAY OKAY, WE GET IT.

Betti has big brass ones, we believe you....

sm · November 26, 2002, 01:15 AM

ROTL great TOPIC, great pics.
Everyone, thanks, I'm learning something...please continue

[p.s. afraid/curious whadya do with mr turtle?]

**Mike Irwin** · November 26, 2002, 01:27 AM

Steve,

Here's a pretty good picture of a large gun being installed on the USS Connecticut, BB 18.

You can see how much the gun protrudes into the turret.

houndawg · November 26, 2002, 04:49 AM

I've never seen one of those, but I have fired a 6.1 inch gun quite a few times. It's a M198 155mm howitzer. I have a picture on my computer of me pulling the lanyard, and you can actually see the round going downrange, but I don't have any way of posting it here.

K80Geoff · November 26, 2002, 08:54 AM

ww.warships1.com is a fantastic site. Full of more info than anyone can possibly digest. Have had it bookmarked for two years and go there regularly.

The info on navies of the world is just incredible, where else can you find the info on every Battleship ever made! It is a work in progress, gets better all the time!

A little Quiz:

Name the only US Battleship not named for a state, and what was it named for?

Name the only WW2 era US Heavy Cruiser not named after a city? How did it get its name?

Which US WW2 Carrier was named after a bombing raid?

The only US Destroyer not named after an individual?

Tamara · November 26, 2002, 09:15 AM

Quote:

The only US Destroyer not named after an individual?

Is it the one named after five individuals?

Coronach · November 26, 2002, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Name the only US Battleship not named for a state, and what was it named for?

Kearsarge. Named after...uhm...Kearsarge.

Quote:

Name the only WW2 era US Heavy Cruiser not named after a city? How did it get its name?

Dunno...have to thinkabout that one.

Quote:

Which US WW2 Carrier was named after a bombing raid?

USS Shangri-La

Quote:

The only US Destroyer not named after an individual?

USS The Sullivans, named after the Sullivan brothers killed aboard...uhm...USS Juneau when she blew up after a torpedo attack.

OK, thats from memory. Gimmee a minute to think about the one I missed.

Mike

Coronach · November 26, 2002, 09:21 AM

Well, I COULD say Prinz Eugen, which was named after, well, Prince Eugen, as we ended up with her as a war prize...but I'm betting you mean something else.

Mike

Baron Holbach · November 26, 2002, 09:22 AM

Does anyone have a picture looking down the barrel of a 16-inch gun -- the kind on U.S. Navy ships?

Coronach · November 26, 2002, 09:26 AM

Well...I could cheat again and say either ship of the Alaska class, but thats obviously not what you mean, either. Hmmm....USS Canberra named not after a city, but after HMAS Canberra.

Yes? No? Bueller?

Mike

UltimaThule · November 26, 2002, 09:46 AM

Big brass ones?

I lifted this picture from the same site as I linked to in a previous post. It's ammo for the 80 cm railway gun "Dora" that was used in the siege of Sevastopol in 1942.

How about a gelatin test? Or maybe some goats. Inquiring minds want to know.

**Mike Irwin** · November 26, 2002, 11:07 AM

1. Kearsarge, named after the steam frigate that sank the CSS Alabama during the Civil War.

2. USS Canberra, named after the HMAS Canberra, sunk at the battle of Savo Island off Guadalcanal in 1942.

(Alaska, Guam, Puerto Rico, and Hawaii don't count. They were battle cruisers.)

3. There wasn't one. Trick question. The carrier wasn't named after the Doolittle Raid. It was named after the mythical place in the James Hilton's novel "Lost Horizon."

When asked where the raid originated, Franklin Roosevelt said "Shangri La."

4. If the answer you're looking for is "The Sullivans," this is another trick question.

There have been TWO USS The Sullivans -- the Burke Class guided missile destroyer DDG 68 and the Fletcher Class DD 537.

Coronach · November 26, 2002, 12:14 PM

AH! I should have remembered the dual between the Alabama and the Kearsarge! Damn damn damn. I still get partial credit...I got the ship right.

And Mike, I don't think that was a trick question. The Doolittle raid and Roosevelt's reply were direct inspirations for the ship's name. Kind of a funny joke, actually. I wonder if the Japanese are laughing?

Mike

Steve Smith · November 26, 2002, 12:53 PM

Ok, Mike, I'm back with more questions. I see that the gun takes up a good 80% of the turret space (front to rear). That case is at least 4' high. Where did it go when being ejected? Was the chamber in multiple peices so that more space behind the block wasn't necessary? Do you get what I'm asking?

**Mike Irwin** · November 26, 2002, 12:57 PM

I know I'm splitting a hare (and it's pissed about it

), but I'm pretty certain that the Doolittle raid's operation name wasn't Shangri-La. Officially it may well have been called the Doolittle Raid or Doolittle Operation.

That was Roosevelt's response on April 21 to reporters who asked where the raid originated.

Another tidbit...

Kearsarge was also the name of Essex class carrier 33.

November 25, 2002, 06:34 PM	#51
KSFreeman Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2001 Location: Lafayette, Indiana--American-occupied America Posts: 5,418	Devil Dog (aka runt), this is War Rocket. Thanks for posting that. Have not seen one of those in a while. In another life, when I was younger and much better looking and could live forever. __________________ "Arguments of policy must give way to a constitutional command." Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 602 (1980).

November 25, 2002, 06:37 PM	#52
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Mike, I saw what you're talking about before I posted...case length plus operating gear would take up most of the turret space. Is the chamber IN the turret or in the base of the barrel? Forgive my ignorance of naval guns. __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

November 25, 2002, 06:50 PM	#53
Long Path Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,899	Hey Runt! Get Oleg to take a pic of the headstamp and primer (primer pocket? I know a lot of naval guns were primed with 12 ga blanks...). Great thread! Man, when people ask me what is the ideal kind of topic for General, I always am at a loss. But this thread is the epitome of just kewl things to learn about, totally gun related! __________________ "Welcome to The Firing Line, a virtual community dedicated to the discussion and advancement of responsible firearms ownership."T.F.L. Policy Page Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap? ____________

November 25, 2002, 08:16 PM	#55
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,855	Runt (or "four fingers"), isn't that a snapper (the turtle, not the toddler )? __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

November 25, 2002, 08:44 PM	#56
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	The casings were ejected out the front of the turret through the little hatches visible under the gun tubes. Mike is correct, no crew needed as the guns were automated. That's why the explosion on the Newport News did not result in casualties like the Iowa's blow up. Read about it on the Warships1 website. __________________ I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!

November 25, 2002, 07:45 PM	#54
Betty Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 2000 Location: southern U.S. Posts: 1,807	More pics: There's also a large stenciled block of the text on the side of the shell which we didn't photograph. We couldn't polish that area because it would remove the stenciling. And heeeeere's a photo that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, but I'll post it anyway because I now have complete access to uploading junk onto Oleg's server: Anyone like turtle soup?

November 25, 2002, 08:48 PM	#57
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,392	OH FOR GOD'S SAKES! One of the photos on Warships1 SAYS, quite clearly, that those hatches are the ejection ports for spent cases. I didn't see that before. Sigh. Steve, the breechblock and chamber are in the turret, and there's a surprisingly small amount of gun inside of the turret for what you see outside. This illustration is for the 5"/38 GP mount that was used so effectively during WW II. Turret design is, obviously, much different, but the relative ratios are about the same, I believe, for turret depth, gun outside to breech inside ratio, etc. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 26, 2002, 12:05 AM	#59
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,392	www.warships1.com An AMAZING resource site for information about ships and the weapons mounted on them. Photos, ship histories, tons of technical information, etc. They even have some chatroom, but you need a popup killer to go there or you'll drown. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 26, 2002, 12:39 AM	#61
Lord Grey Boots Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 1999 Location: Snohomish, WA Posts: 510	OKAY OKAY, WE GET IT. Betti has big brass ones, we believe you.... __________________ http://www.geocities.com/gebooth2001 NRA, CCRKBA, GOA, WAC Sarin Nerve Gas:FOUND Ricin Toxin:FOUND Mustard Gas:FOUND Long Range Rockets:FOUND Nuclear material:FOUND 20 tons of Chemical weapons:FOUND Al-Queda FOUND

November 26, 2002, 01:15 AM	#62
sm Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2002 Posts: 1,819	ROTL great TOPIC, great pics. Everyone, thanks, I'm learning something...please continue [p.s. afraid/curious whadya do with mr turtle?] __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL Alumni

November 26, 2002, 01:27 AM	#63
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,392	Steve, Here's a pretty good picture of a large gun being installed on the USS Connecticut, BB 18. You can see how much the gun protrudes into the turret. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 26, 2002, 04:49 AM	#64
houndawg Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 479	I've never seen one of those, but I have fired a 6.1 inch gun quite a few times. It's a M198 155mm howitzer. I have a picture on my computer of me pulling the lanyard, and you can actually see the round going downrange, but I don't have any way of posting it here.

November 26, 2002, 08:54 AM	#65
K80Geoff Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 1998 Location: NE Pennsylvania Posts: 3,639	ww.warships1.com is a fantastic site. Full of more info than anyone can possibly digest. Have had it bookmarked for two years and go there regularly. The info on navies of the world is just incredible, where else can you find the info on every Battleship ever made! It is a work in progress, gets better all the time! A little Quiz: Name the only US Battleship not named for a state, and what was it named for? Name the only WW2 era US Heavy Cruiser not named after a city? How did it get its name? Which US WW2 Carrier was named after a bombing raid? The only US Destroyer not named after an individual? __________________ I am no longer a member of this forum. Bye!

November 26, 2002, 09:21 AM	#68
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Well, I COULD say Prinz Eugen, which was named after, well, Prince Eugen, as we ended up with her as a war prize...but I'm betting you mean something else. Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

November 26, 2002, 09:22 AM	#69
Baron Holbach Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2002 Location: Maryland Posts: 238	Does anyone have a picture looking down the barrel of a 16-inch gun -- the kind on U.S. Navy ships?

November 26, 2002, 09:26 AM	#70
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	Well...I could cheat again and say either ship of the Alaska class, but thats obviously not what you mean, either. Hmmm....USS Canberra named not after a city, but after HMAS Canberra. Yes? No? Bueller? Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

November 26, 2002, 11:07 AM	#72
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,392	1. Kearsarge, named after the steam frigate that sank the CSS Alabama during the Civil War. 2. USS Canberra, named after the HMAS Canberra, sunk at the battle of Savo Island off Guadalcanal in 1942. (Alaska, Guam, Puerto Rico, and Hawaii don't count. They were battle cruisers.) 3. There wasn't one. Trick question. The carrier wasn't named after the Doolittle Raid. It was named after the mythical place in the James Hilton's novel "Lost Horizon." When asked where the raid originated, Franklin Roosevelt said "Shangri La." 4. If the answer you're looking for is "The Sullivans," this is another trick question. There have been TWO USS The Sullivans -- the Burke Class guided missile destroyer DDG 68 and the Fletcher Class DD 537. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 26, 2002, 12:14 PM	#73
Coronach Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 1999 Posts: 3,147	AH! I should have remembered the dual between the Alabama and the Kearsarge! Damn damn damn. I still get partial credit...I got the ship right. And Mike, I don't think that was a trick question. The Doolittle raid and Roosevelt's reply were direct inspirations for the ship's name. Kind of a funny joke, actually. I wonder if the Japanese are laughing? Mike __________________ The axe bites into the door, ripping a hole in one panel. The maniac puts his face into the hole, cackling gleefully, "Here's Johnny...erk." "And here's Smith and Wesson," murmurs Coronach, Mozambiquing six rounds of .357 into the critter at a range of three feet. -Lawdog "True pacifism is the finest form of manliness. But if a man comes up to you and cuts your hand off, you don't just offer him the other one. Not if you want to go on playing the piano, you don't." -Sam Peckinpah "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein

November 26, 2002, 12:53 PM	#74
Steve Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 1999 Posts: 4,131	Ok, Mike, I'm back with more questions. I see that the gun takes up a good 80% of the turret space (front to rear). That case is at least 4' high. Where did it go when being ejected? Was the chamber in multiple peices so that more space behind the block wasn't necessary? Do you get what I'm asking? __________________ Favor the X. Steve Smith NRA Life Member

November 26, 2002, 12:57 PM	#75
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,392	I know I'm splitting a hare (and it's pissed about it ), but I'm pretty certain that the Doolittle raid's operation name wasn't Shangri-La. Officially it may well have been called the Doolittle Raid or Doolittle Operation. That was Roosevelt's response on April 21 to reporters who asked where the raid originated. Another tidbit... Kearsarge was also the name of Essex class carrier 33. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.