Honest question seeks honest answer.....

[Bandit01]

If you've bought a pistol for defense, then this question is directed at you: Have you ever actually shot someone? If so, please describe the event and how you felt afterwards.

I'm 31 years old and I'm just getting into pistols. Being originally from Brooklyn, N.Y., there were no ranges around nor is it a gun friendly state. I've seen people shot before and it is a freightening experience. Yes, I'm getting ready to purchase a pistol for the fun of going to the range but I hope to god that I would never have to raise a pistol at another person in defense.

[priv8ter]

Hi. I own pistols for all kinds of reasons, and have never had to shoot anyone.

You might get blasted for asking this one. While it is true that there is no such thing as a dumb question, some folks in the past have reacted...in a...forceful manner to this question being asked.

Much like asking a lady how old she is, or how much she weighs, there are some questions left unasked. Shooting someone, especially if that person were to expire follwing the shooting, can be a stressful situation. You would be better off asking a guy married for 20 years to describe how he felt going through his divorce.

Sometimes, you might get lucky enough that people will come on and post about their self-defence experience, but you might not find many folks willing to talk about this type of thing.

greg

[Bandit01]

Let me tell you why I asked this question. Recently, I completed a basic handgun class. In the class, there were people of different handgun experiences. This older woman who owned a .380 told us that she lived in a very dangerous neighborhood and at night, while walking her dogs, she always carried her .380 (illegally concealed, just in case she was attacked.) She went on saying how she's going to be ready if one of those young hoodlums, playing their rap music attacked her (I was a little offended by her stereotypes, being that I'm african american myself). She also said that she would have no problem, "Blowing their heads off" and "hoped that someone would _uck with" her. Personally, I was shocked at her open comments and extreme wanting to destroy someone.

Someone in the class told us a sad story of when he had to use a pistol in self defense. Speaking of the situation brought about a a wealth of emotions on his face. He said that he was frightened but had no choice. He spoke about what it felt like, in addition, he said that everything happened in slow motion. After the person fell to the ground, he stood over the person and watched them both in fright and in anger. Finally, the gentlemen told the woman in the class that shooting someone is not something to be proud of and that he hopes never to be involved in a situation like that again.

What was scarier was after the class, in the gun range, I saw the woman's target. She couldn't shoot for sh_t. That makes me worried about someone that's dying to shoot someone, who can not even shoot him/herself.

I didn't post this question to start problems nor to create controversy (well maybe a little controversy) but to get peoples candid opinions, views and history of guns. No one wants to be a victim, everyone wants to protect him/herself and their family members but what you must do to protect yourself or your families is just as scary.

Since I've been going to the gun range, I've been more aware of peoples obsession of guns. Yesterday, the gun range was closed; therefore, I was hanging out at the gun shop looking at guns and listening to peoples conversations. This one woman, looking just a Southern Belle was asking the gun clerk for something that's cute, something that'll easily fit into her purse and something that's got a serious bang. The clerk showed her a black .380. The woman was standing there trying to aim it and also trying to make it fit into her purse. I was thinking, "Lady, gun ownership is serious. you can't/shouldn't purchase a gun to color cordinate in your new Gucci purse."

I'll admit, I am attracted to guns and they do give you a sense of power holding one. But I'm just curious to find out if the average person that's looking to purchase one is fully ready for the commitement and responsibilities that comes from owning and possessing one.

Finally, I'm not asking anyone in particular to answer this question. It's stictly up to the individual if he/she wants to answer it. Therefore, the analogy of a woman's weight or a man getting a divorce does not apply because in your analogies, it's being directed to a specific person. I don't think that anyone would blast me by my posting. I think that it's helpful to konw these things. I'm a newbie, I'm learning about guns; therefore, the entire concept is new and exciting but there are major downfalls to guns. Somoeone with experience and knowledge and guide me. That's why I joined this site. As much as I love hearing of someones preference of a .38 over a .357 revolver, I'm also interested in finding out if someone had to actually use that actual knowledge of defense (that's painted all over this site) in self defense. Sure, I know that it's a touchy subject but I think that you must confront the good with the bad in all subjects. I think that it's not wise to just give the romantic side of guns. So, if someone is horrified with my question, they can post a reply or simply go to the next subject.

[12-34hom]

This question is personal in nature, and as such - few - if any will reply.

Acquiring a firearm for personal protection is one of the many ways you can defend oneself or family members. As such, it should only be used as a "last resort" as all other means have failed.

Retreat - situational awareness - verbal judo - are other avenues to consider while armed or not.

Also, do you know the laws concerning the use of deadly force in the state you live in? Have you considered what will happen to you IF you are involved in a situation where you take a persons life? ie.. criminal - civil liability - your own sanity.

The actions that goes with being a responsible gun owner i are far reaching and hold many implications.

Good luck.

12-34hom.

[denfoote]

The question you ask is indeed of a personal nature.
LEO's are generally devastated by the experience.
There is an LEO on trial for his life here in AZ because he shot a woman who, allegedly tried to back her car over him after a failed drug buy. He has lost his job and his livelihood and is mostly assured of not returning to the profession he has chosen, even if he beats the rap!!!

Yes, I have had the unfortunate occasion of having to draw a pistol to protect my family. It was not pleasant. I escaped prosecution only because no shot was fired, and I was within the confines of my domicile, and the BG was trying to gain illegal entrance.

[Rembrandt]

I think you're looking too deep for some emotional rationale.....try looking at the issue like "Spock" on Star Trek...from a pure logical point of view.

There will be consequences for actions you choose to take....one needs to exhaust all other possibilities (defense options) until it becomes clear your life is about to end.....then you exercise the last option, use of deadly force (pulling the trigger).

After such an event an emotional reaction is only natural....dealing with it later knowing that you had no other choice makes it easier to deal with.

People like the "Little old Lady" have not used their options wisely...rather they skip the methodical and logical steps and react on a brain fart.

[joab]

Even though it is personal there is nothing wrong with the question.

Trying to seperate logical thinking from emotions during the incident is one thing but you must also be prepared for the emotional impact of killing some mother's son afterward

I have never had the misfortune of actually shootinganyone but I have had to draw down. At that moment there's no doubt then or now that I could have and would have shot. It was a question of when not if. The showdown which took probably 10seconds seemed to last for an hour and I have never been more focused on anything in my life, no fear, no second guessing, just an overwhelming desire that he'd do the right thing.

After it was over I started shaking more from adrenilin dump than and thing else that and the realization that my life came down to one wrong move away from changing irrepairably.

In the years since I have come to the conclusion that I probably could not easily handle the emotional devastation of taking a life. The incident actually chaged my outlook, temperment and in some aspects my lifestyle.

I also wonder how someone who has actually had to pull the trigger deals with it

[Darkangel]

Dude, ending someones life is a terrible thing. Even if they are a dirt bag you'll beat yourself up over it daily until you finily come to grip with the incident. Its something you will live with and never forget. I have two different friends who were both involved in a situation where they had to shoot and kill an aggressor. Its been 10 years for the one guy and he still dwells on it. I've been lucky, pulled my CCW a few times but the sight of my .45 defused the situation real quick. I don't like to think that I could drop a hammer on someone, but if it were my life or theirs........well the choice is simple. If anyone even came close to harming my family it would be by by for them.
The Old lady is just talking tough, maybe just trying to convince herself that its the right thing to do. Most likely will just get herself killed.

[FrankDrebin]

She went on saying how she's going to be ready if one of those young hoodlums, playing their rap music attacked her (I was a little offended by her stereotypes, being that I'm african american myself).

Maybe she was talking about "The Real Slim Shady".....

I know plenty of cops who have shot people, some on-duty, and some off. Of those, none were what I would call "devastated" by the experience. Of course, they were all good shootings....I wouldn't worry about it unless you think you're incapeable of shooting someone. Better "devastated" than dead. If you're convinced that you won't be able to shoot someone repeatedly when the time comes, you're probably better off not carrying a gun. There's really nothing cheaper in my opinion than the life of the guy who's willing to kill you for your pocket change, car, shoes, whatever....Try reading "On Killing" by Grossman. While it's written from a military perspective as opposed to law enforcement or civilian, some of the ideas overlap.

[Redondo]

No, but twice in my life I "showed" a firearm. In both cases the thugs thought twice and retreated. The most threatening was an attempted car jacking/robbery situation. One of the two men had a tire iron. I let them know I had a firearm and they left the scene-QUICKLY.

[joab]

FrankDrebin
Wouldn't a cop be more mentaly and emotionally prepared to shoot someone and wouldn't they have a much better suppor system afterwards.
I have proven to myself that I can commit the act I am just not sure about the aftermath but I am more than willing to at least try to live with it

And as far as Ms Rambo, blowhards like that are usually the ones that forget which end of the gun is the ouchy one, or just wet their knickers when it really does hit the fan

[Hard Ball]

Yes, twice when I was in the Army. My feelings were "God that was close!!" (and it was both timrs.) followed by the feeling that I was greatful to still be alive.

[joab]

And by the way Bandit welcome to the forum

[WC15]

I have not killed anyone, but as all fo the others have said it is a taboo subject.

If you would to read about someone who took someones life go to warriortalk.com and look for one a post by Gabe Suarez. He is neither bashful about it nor does he mind being open with his emotions when it happened.

WC15

[Quartus]

Bandit, I appreciate the thought you have put into this. And I don't think you are all out of line in asking, but you've been told the truth, there ARE some who would "blast" you for daring to ask.

Ignore them!

I agree with you - it's a general question and only those who wish to need respond. I think some of us HAVE seen wannabees and kiddies who ask that kind of question in anything BUT a thoughtful manner, and of course that's offensive. But I don't think any reasonable person has cause to be offended by your posts.

So welcome! Stick around! I doubt you'll get many first person answers to THIS question, but there's still lots you can learn, and TFL will be a better place for having one more thoughtful person on board.

You'll help balance out the idiots like ME!


BTW, allow me to recommend some FREE online reading that may partially answer your questions.


John Farnam is one of the nations upper echelon firearms instructors, and his Quips and Quotes are a source of good info, and the price is right!


If you decide to carry, may I suggest you get some serious training, such as offered by Farnam or some of these folks?

[mete]

Bandit, I started out in Brooklyn too but moved upstate and have been carrying for many years.In that time I've only had a couple of 'almosts'. It's hard to predict a persons emotional reaction to the event. This is part of the "traumatic stress syndrome". What you can do is get the very best training you can find, it's well worth it ,a basic course is not enough.In this way you will much better understand the situation should you face it and be able to do the correct things.This will improve your chance of survival and minimize adverse emotional problems. Remember - the first thing is to survive and you should be happy that you did !!

[git_r_dun0405]

I have had to draw my gun on someone. But didnt have to fire. You shouldnt feel guilt, if you do your in trouble.

[carebear]

The two times I've had to draw a weapon were both clear cut. As part of my training and conditioning I had created a series of "lines" so to speak that if apparently crossed would result in certain actions. So I felt little doubt, no real "surprise" and no "what if" afterwards. It was more "well, I thought this might happen someday". The other person (this is key) first created the situation, then acted in such a way as to remove my ability to avoid or escape it. The responsibility was thus squarely on them. Had I had to shoot, so be it, it was their fault and the responsibility for the consequences (would have) fallen solely on them.

Its the people who arm themselves with the vague notion that they "might have to protect themselves someday" but who don't really train or consider the meaning of that statement who seem to suffer the negative aftermaths.

This would include LE and military who, though ostensibly trained and professional on the subject, never really internalized the reality that it really COULD happen to them. As far as the pros go, I'd say their trainers let them down for not pushing the issue.

My .02

(edited to include... This doesn't address the LE's who, because of the demands of their job, often walk into situations without complete info on what's going on and have to make tough calls in an instant. A mistake, however honest and guiltless, has to weigh heavily on someone sworn to protect.)

[FrankDrebin]

Wouldn't a cop be more mentaly and emotionally prepared to shoot someone and wouldn't they have a much better suppor system afterwards.

Prepared to kill? Maybe, but I don't think you every really know until it's time. Support system? Could be, but I think cops are a lot more likely to be prosecuted and lose their jobs over a "questionable" shooting than a non cop, so that's a whole other can of worms. How were you able to prove to yourself that you're able to kill someone without actually killing someone?

[45 Fu]

First, welcome aboard.

Your question seems to be genuine and well thought out. Some take the asking of it as an accusation - these usually assume too much and go from there, although it looks as if it has been taken in the spirit it was asked. What I will tell you is this. I know people who have had to kill another person (military and LEO) and the reaction is as varied as the situations that brought it on. Some can get past it by knowing it was a "do or die" situation. Others, who were justified in shooting, still can not shake the fact they took a human life and it haunts them, albeit to varying degrees. Each person is different so the reactions will be as well.

After you have been around those who enjoy shooting you will find we are not different than anyone else. We have our share of idiots and know-it-alls. But the one thing I have found to be true 99.999% of the time is that those who run their mouths usually lack both the personal ability and backbone to actually do anything. Those of us who have thought deeply on the responsibility and possible ramifications of carrying a firearm look upon it as a profound thing. We do not advertize it, nor do we boast openly on our intent/wishes to kill. Human life is sacred and we take that seriously. Almost all (notice I said almost) who have done it do not talk about it and most who do are liars.

Ignore the loud-mouth armchair commandos (regardless of age) and do what's best for yourself. Be safe, practice, and, if the time should ever come when you have to shoot, be glad you are still alive.

Hope this helps.

[RonC]

I haven't had to draw or shoot in civilian life (most of my life). I have drawn and swung a collapsible police baton while being attacked when I was living in South AFrica for 5 months (wish I could have carried a gun there).
I have been told, and read, that you better be ready to spend your life savings ($50,000) even with a justified shooting. You will likely be arrested, have to retain an attorney, and even fight it out in civil court when your case is dismissed in the criminal justice system.
It is a life changing event. I hope I never have the experience, but I am prepared to protect my family from bodily harm!

Stay safe,
Ron

[Bandit01]

So far, there have been 20 posts and 202 views on my topic/subject. For the individual that suggested that many people would not respond to this or would blast me, all I can say is: The truth is before you. What I failed to mention is that I am a Practicing Attorney and I have a Masters degree in Philosophy. I am well aware of the legal ramifications for using a pistol, even if it's justified; in addition, I am also aware of the Philosophical arguments both for and against using a pistol (even in self defense). My goal in starting this post (although the examples that I provided were completely true and accurate) was to start controversy. It was to get people "heated" in discussing the moral ramifications of this sport of ours. There's the political argument that, "Guns don't kill, people do". Whether you believe that argument or not, I am still amazed at how popular guns are and how so many people in this country of ours are not thinking about what could happen if they were carrying a gun. I can go on with my argument but I'll conclude here. All I say is, please all be aware of what you're getting yourselves into.

[git_r_dun0405]

Bullsh it

[sled-dog]

this is a common notion, that if you posess a gun it will change your attitude and or reaction to a situation. that is wrong, look to yourself for the answer. just because you have within your grasp a potential deadly weapon doesnt make you a cold blooded killer when the opportunity presents itself. if someone were to break into your home would you shoot them on site if they posed no violent threat to you? most likely not, and you have to trust every other responsible gun owner would not either regardless of how much macho talk you hear! come make my day, etc.

the negative feelings from shooting someone are natural, but will affect certain people more than others. if you are a very empathetic person then you will feel them tremendously. i dont know if this is true, but i have heard that during WWII there were many soldiers that at the "moment of truth" chose not to fire on the enemy for fear of taking a life, they were killed in return. let your concience guide you, but be rational and realistic, thats all there is to it.

[FrankDrebin]

It was to get people "heated" in discussing the moral ramifications of this sport of ours.

What does that mean? Shooting at the range may be a sport, and I don't see any moral ramifications in that. (does that mean that I have to accept that everyone who shoots at the range is an "athlete"?) Shooting someone who you think is trying to kill you has nothing to do with sport. I've never dwelled on the "morality" of surviving at the expense of the life of the guy who is trying to kill me. I don't really see it as an issue. It's more of a Darwinian issue than a moral one.