Rep. Waxman fails to get cameraman ejected from gun committee hearing

Glock-A-Roo · April 19, 2002, 08:21 AM

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics....20020419b.html

Democrat Tries to Boot TV Cameraman From House Hearing
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
April 19, 2002

Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - California Democratic Congresssman Henry Waxman tried unsuccessfully Thursday to have an accredited TV news photographer thrown out of a House subcommittee hearing. The hearing focused on whether to limit liability lawsuits against gun makers and Waxman, who favors gun control, insisted the cameraman was videotaping on behalf of the National Rifle Association.

The House Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection was hearing testimony on the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (H.R. 2037), a bill designed to stop lawsuits against the gun industry for actions taken by criminals using their products, when Waxman challenged the presence of the television camera.

"Under the rules, the only cameras that are permitted at a hearing are from accredited representatives of the press. I understand that the camera that is now filming this hearing is owned and controlled by the National Rifle Association," Waxman (D-Calif.) charged.

"If I'm correct and this camera [man] is not an accredited member of the press, I'd make a point of order that the camera should not be permitted to film the hearing," he added.

Subcommittee Chairman Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) recognized the camera operator as someone who regularly videotapes hearings on Capitol Hill.

"We'll be glad to show you his credentials," Stearns offered Waxman after some discussion.

The cameraman, a freelance video journalist accredited by the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives News Galleries, presented his gallery identification card to Stearns, who read the information to the subcommittee.

But that did not satisfy Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.) the ranking Democrat on the subcommittee.

"That's not the question. The question is: This camera, is this the National Rifle Association's camera? That's the question rather than the credentials," Towns argued. "What identification you have in your pocket, that's another issue."

Stearns disagreed.

"The identification in his pocket shows that he's accredited press and, I think, as such that he's entitled to record," Stearns ruled.

But Towns and Waxman continued their challenge.

"No. I have a driver's license that says 'New York State' in my pocket but I'm not here representing New York State. I'm here as a member of the United States Congress," Towns continued. "So, the fact that he can pull something out of his pocket doesn't satisfy me.

"The question I have, which I want answered ... is whether or not he's filming for the National Rifle Association. That is the real question here."

"May we ask of the gentleman who is filming, for whom he is working today?" Waxman asked Stearns.

Stearns jokingly said that if Waxman wanted to overrule the decision, he was "welcome to try."

"You're welcome to appeal," Stearns declared seriously. "But, we want to get on to the witnesses, so I think that, under the circumstances, my position would be that he's shown his credentials and we accept them and we'll continue."

Waxman withdrew his objection, with a caveat.

"If this man has been hired by the National Rifle Association, just as anybody hired from the Democratic Party shouldn't be allowed to come in here and film, I don't think we ought to allow this, and I think the rules don't permit it," Waxman alleged.

Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.) echoed Waxman's complaint.

"I don't think any outside groups should be in here filming," DeGette said. "I'm deeply offended by it."

But the three Democrats' assertions that House rules prohibit recording by individuals other than accredited news media were incorrect.

"Under the rules of the committee, the chairman has 'full and complete discretion to allow any cameras into the hearing room,' whether those cameras are credentialed or not," Stearns said, after receiving a report from his staff. "So, rest assured, that the cameras are completely allowed under committee rules."

The video journalist, who asked that he not be identified, told CNSNews.com that he was working for a Washington-based contracting agency that routinely provides camera crews to television networks and stations from around the country.

He added that the equipment he was using was personally owned, and not the property of the National Rifle Association.

A member of the House Radio-TV Gallery staff also told CNSNews.com that the chairman of a committee or subcommittee has the absolute authority over allowing recordings by groups or individuals other than accredited media. The gallery staff member, who also did not wish to be identified, said it was "inappropriate" for members of the subcommittee to challenge the camera operator during the hearing, in front of spectators.

The video journalist completed his recording of the hearing, with no further challenges.

foghornl · April 19, 2002, 08:26 AM

Seems that those objecting were all Demo RATS.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Christopher II · April 19, 2002, 08:48 AM

An appropriate response would have been, "My reasons for being here and the people whom I represent are none of your blankety-blanking business, Congressman. Bite me."

Waxman is confusing his status as a second-rate, third-world petty bureaucrat as that of a 15th-century duke. What a surprise.

- Chris

TheBluesMan · April 19, 2002, 08:56 AM

I can't help but wonder what Waxman has to hide... or why he sounds so fearful of the NRA.

ronin308 · April 19, 2002, 09:03 AM

TheBluesMan is right, it makes one wonder what they are trying to conceal from the general public.

Russ · April 19, 2002, 09:28 AM

If Waxman had anything to hide, he could just stuff it up his nose. I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy Hoffa is in there!

trapshooter · April 19, 2002, 09:38 AM

Quote:

But Towns and Waxman continued their challenge.

"No. I have a driver's license that says 'New York State' in my pocket but I'm not here representing New York State. I'm here as a member of the United States Congress," Towns continued.

This is one of the more ignorant statements I have read in quite a while. I guess Towns studied the U.S. Constitution from the back of a matchbook cover. I wonder what the people of New York state think of Town's 'representation'.?

Another comment:

Cockroaches scatter when the light is turned on. I see some similarities here.

Drizzt · April 19, 2002, 10:01 AM

you know, if you're that embarrassed at what you're doing, maybe you shouldn't be doing it......

WyldOne · April 19, 2002, 10:09 AM

They do sound pretty darn paranoid.

But, OTOH, most people not involved with the gun rights issue, see the NRA as an extremist fringe group. So, that's probably where a lot of that sentiment comes from.

C.R.Sam · April 19, 2002, 10:23 AM

Next up: registration of photo/video equipment.

Politicians and other criminals should have all of their doings recorded and broadcast to all of the citizens.

Sam

Greg L · April 19, 2002, 10:25 AM

Somebody needs to send that quote of Towns' to his opponent for the elections this fall. Could be used with fun results if he ever (not likely) agrees to an open debate in his district. Perhaps a letter to the editor of a local paper....

Greg

Russ · April 19, 2002, 10:33 AM

Greg L.,

I come from the PRK. As long as Waxman runs in the district he is in as constututed, he has a job for life. Very liberal district. Just hope the DemoCRAPS don't get power in the House any time soon or you will be hearing more than you ever wanted to hear from this pig face sob.

Greg L · April 19, 2002, 10:38 AM

Russ,

I meant to send it to Towns opponent. I agree, short of death (and maybe not then) the ninnies out in Waxman's district will continue to vote for him no matter what.

Greg (also a refugee from Ca living in Ky (but I managed to escape 18 years ago). I'm about 1.5 hours up 71 from you. Maybe we should get together sometime and swap horror stories

)

MuzzleBlast · April 19, 2002, 10:40 AM

Methinks he doth protest too much.

AugustWest · April 19, 2002, 10:50 AM

I agree with trapshooter. For a Congressman from New York to say he doesn't represent his state, and to imply that being a congressman is being anything but a representative is really, really ignorant.

It's also pretty scarey. State representatives thinking they are beholden only to the Federal gov't is dangerous. I hope he just misspoke.

GSB · April 19, 2002, 12:14 PM

How dare this cameraman think that the public has some right to know what its elected officials are doing! What does he think this is, a Constitutional Republic or something?

Brett Bellmore · April 19, 2002, 12:51 PM

Well, heck, what need do we have to know what's going on in Congress, if it's going to be illegal to tell anybody what we find out? I assume Waxman did vote for the recent campaign censorship law...

SpyGuy · April 19, 2002, 03:36 PM

Quote:

most people not involved with the ________ issue, see _______ as an extremist fringe group

You fill in the blanks:

1. freedom of speech; the ACLU
2. environmental; the Sierra Club
3. international whaling; Greenpeace
4. human rights; Amnesty International
5. women's rights; the NOW
6. black rights; the NAACP
7. globalization; the UN
8. education; the NEA
9. ...

WyldOne, are you sure you think that our government officials are justified in their "sentiment" of wanting to keep us from knowing what our "representatives" are up to?

paratrooper · April 19, 2002, 07:24 PM

I have never seen Waxman in person BUT he has always struck me as a high school music teacher that hopes someday to have sex .

Waitone · April 19, 2002, 08:15 PM

He and they may not be afraid of the NRA but they certainly do respect its reach.

What a shame! Imagine that; a politician concerned with the power of an interest group.

Jeff White · April 19, 2002, 09:59 PM

Quote:

"No. I have a driver's license that says 'New York State' in my pocket but I'm not here representing New York State. I'm here as a member of the United States Congress,"

Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.) the ranking Democrat on the subcommittee.

If he's not there to represent New York, just what the )(*&^ is he there to do? I wonder if his constituants know that he's not there to represent New York. I wonder who else in congress is there as a member of congress and not to reprsent his constituants? Hmmmm......Congress taxes us, but they are not there to represent us, but themselves.....I seem to recall that something similar became and issue just about 227 years ago....

Jeff

dischord · April 19, 2002, 10:12 PM

Actually, even though Stearns, as chairman, could allow the cameraman to be there no matter what -- even without any credentials at all -- IF this guy used his credentials to gain access in order to film for the NRA, he would be in violation of gallery rules and could lose his credentials.

However, Waxman was way out of line and deserves all the bad press he gets. Before making such an allegation, he needed proof, and he obviously did not have it. Even if he turns out to be correct, Waxman jumped the gun at best and attempted to intimidate an innocent reporter at worst.

Quote:

Gallery Rules and Procedures for Broadcast Coverage of Congress

Section Six,

I. Congressional Radio-TV Gallery credentials may be used only when covering news stories. They may not be used to gain access to Capitol grounds or buildings when working for non-news clients or for other purposes unrelated to news coverage.

J. Rules of Congress prohibit Gallery members from engaging in lobbying, advertising, publicity, or promotion work for any individual, corporation, organization or government.

http://www.house.gov/radiotv/rules.htm

ernest2 · April 19, 2002, 10:34 PM

Whatever the [anything but] "Honorable Congressman" intended doing , he certaintly did not want his constituients or any one else for that matter, to know about it.

It appears as if the congressman may have wanted to do his dirty deeds in secret.

Criminal ways die hard and criminals hate doing anything in front of witnesses.

Again, if they are not there to represent the states that elected them , just what do they think they are there for???

We live in a nation controled by NSA [National Security Agency]
the Commeettee on Foriegn Relations, the trilateral commission,
the CIA and the UN.

My appoligies if I left out any other secret government control agiencies , but then, I never was in the loop.

Land of the free???? Hell NO
We have been a police state since the early 1950's.
Just ask Congressman[witchhunt] McCarthy, he'll tell you!

:barf:

Alex Szabo · April 19, 2002, 10:53 PM

Cliff Stearns is good people! I met him just before Corrine Brown absconded with a portion of his district in her initial gerrymandering maneuver and the subsequent court ruling agreeing so (going back close to 10 years now).

He is most receptive and responsive to his constitutents both in and 'outside' (wink, wink) his district.

You see, a portion of us have taxation without representation in Corrine Brown. Cliff however -- has always delivered!

DaiBando · April 20, 2002, 01:57 PM

]" 'I understand that the camera that is now filming this hearing is owned and controlled by the National Rifle Association,' "

Who was his source? Sarah Brady? Or just "voices in my head"?

If I put my tinfoil hat on, it occurs to me that all these antis were after was another attempt to demonize the NRA by raising this Red Herring.

If the NRA WAS taping, then it was a propaganda Bonanza for the antis - if not, well they got in a cheap shot.

April 19, 2002, 08:21 AM	#1
Glock-A-Roo Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2000 Posts: 119	Rep. Waxman fails to get cameraman ejected from gun committee hearing http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics....20020419b.html Democrat Tries to Boot TV Cameraman From House Hearing By Jeff Johnson CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief April 19, 2002 Capitol Hill (CNSNews.com) - California Democratic Congresssman Henry Waxman tried unsuccessfully Thursday to have an accredited TV news photographer thrown out of a House subcommittee hearing. The hearing focused on whether to limit liability lawsuits against gun makers and Waxman, who favors gun control, insisted the cameraman was videotaping on behalf of the National Rifle Association. The House Subcommittee on Commerce, Trade, and Consumer Protection was hearing testimony on the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (H.R. 2037), a bill designed to stop lawsuits against the gun industry for actions taken by criminals using their products, when Waxman challenged the presence of the television camera. "Under the rules, the only cameras that are permitted at a hearing are from accredited representatives of the press. I understand that the camera that is now filming this hearing is owned and controlled by the National Rifle Association," Waxman (D-Calif.) charged. "If I'm correct and this camera [man] is not an accredited member of the press, I'd make a point of order that the camera should not be permitted to film the hearing," he added. Subcommittee Chairman Cliff Stearns (R-Fla.) recognized the camera operator as someone who regularly videotapes hearings on Capitol Hill. "We'll be glad to show you his credentials," Stearns offered Waxman after some discussion. The cameraman, a freelance video journalist accredited by the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives News Galleries, presented his gallery identification card to Stearns, who read the information to the subcommittee. But that did not satisfy Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-N.Y.) the ranking Democrat on the subcommittee. "That's not the question. The question is: This camera, is this the National Rifle Association's camera? That's the question rather than the credentials," Towns argued. "What identification you have in your pocket, that's another issue." Stearns disagreed. "The identification in his pocket shows that he's accredited press and, I think, as such that he's entitled to record," Stearns ruled. But Towns and Waxman continued their challenge. "No. I have a driver's license that says 'New York State' in my pocket but I'm not here representing New York State. I'm here as a member of the United States Congress," Towns continued. "So, the fact that he can pull something out of his pocket doesn't satisfy me. "The question I have, which I want answered ... is whether or not he's filming for the National Rifle Association. That is the real question here." "May we ask of the gentleman who is filming, for whom he is working today?" Waxman asked Stearns. Stearns jokingly said that if Waxman wanted to overrule the decision, he was "welcome to try." "You're welcome to appeal," Stearns declared seriously. "But, we want to get on to the witnesses, so I think that, under the circumstances, my position would be that he's shown his credentials and we accept them and we'll continue." Waxman withdrew his objection, with a caveat. "If this man has been hired by the National Rifle Association, just as anybody hired from the Democratic Party shouldn't be allowed to come in here and film, I don't think we ought to allow this, and I think the rules don't permit it," Waxman alleged. Rep. Diana DeGette (D-Colo.) echoed Waxman's complaint. "I don't think any outside groups should be in here filming," DeGette said. "I'm deeply offended by it." But the three Democrats' assertions that House rules prohibit recording by individuals other than accredited news media were incorrect. "Under the rules of the committee, the chairman has 'full and complete discretion to allow any cameras into the hearing room,' whether those cameras are credentialed or not," Stearns said, after receiving a report from his staff. "So, rest assured, that the cameras are completely allowed under committee rules." The video journalist, who asked that he not be identified, told CNSNews.com that he was working for a Washington-based contracting agency that routinely provides camera crews to television networks and stations from around the country. He added that the equipment he was using was personally owned, and not the property of the National Rifle Association. A member of the House Radio-TV Gallery staff also told CNSNews.com that the chairman of a committee or subcommittee has the absolute authority over allowing recordings by groups or individuals other than accredited media. The gallery staff member, who also did not wish to be identified, said it was "inappropriate" for members of the subcommittee to challenge the camera operator during the hearing, in front of spectators. The video journalist completed his recording of the hearing, with no further challenges.

April 19, 2002, 08:48 AM	#3
Christopher II Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 1999 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 2,349	An appropriate response would have been, "My reasons for being here and the people whom I represent are none of your blankety-blanking business, Congressman. Bite me." Waxman is confusing his status as a second-rate, third-world petty bureaucrat as that of a 15th-century duke. What a surprise. - Chris __________________ "There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him." – Robert Heinlein "Contrary to popular belief, your vote does not matter, and you cannot make a difference." - Bob Murphy, "Picking Neither of Two Evils" My PGP Public Key

April 19, 2002, 08:56 AM	#4
TheBluesMan Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 15, 1999 Location: Ohio Posts: 7,558	I can't help but wonder what Waxman has to hide... or why he sounds so fearful of the NRA. __________________ -Dave Miller ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ! NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Personal Protection. Tick-off Obama - Join the NRA Today - Save $10

April 19, 2002, 09:03 AM	#5
ronin308 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Posts: 1,977	TheBluesMan is right, it makes one wonder what they are trying to conceal from the general public. __________________ If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert in five years there’d be a shortage of sand. -Milton Friedman

April 19, 2002, 10:01 AM	#8
Drizzt Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2000 Location: Moscow on the Colorado, TX Posts: 2,560	you know, if you're that embarrassed at what you're doing, maybe you shouldn't be doing it...... __________________ "That a free citizen should have to go before a committee, hat in hand, and pray for permission to bear arms - fantastic! Arm your daughter, sir, and pay no attention to petty bureaucrats." Robert Heinlein - Red Planet

April 19, 2002, 08:26 AM	#2
foghornl Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,354	Seems that those objecting were all Demo RATS. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

April 19, 2002, 09:28 AM	#6
Russ Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2001 Location: Kentucky, Refugee from California Posts: 1,097	If Waxman had anything to hide, he could just stuff it up his nose. I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy Hoffa is in there!

April 19, 2002, 10:09 AM	#9
WyldOne Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2001 Location: East Boston, MA Posts: 1,184	They do sound pretty darn paranoid. But, OTOH, most people not involved with the gun rights issue, see the NRA as an extremist fringe group. So, that's probably where a lot of that sentiment comes from. __________________ Well behaved women rarely make history WyldOne's Fun & Political BB WyldOne's homepage

April 19, 2002, 10:23 AM	#10
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Next up: registration of photo/video equipment. Politicians and other criminals should have all of their doings recorded and broadcast to all of the citizens. Sam

April 19, 2002, 10:25 AM	#11
Greg L Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: Northern KY Posts: 542	Somebody needs to send that quote of Towns' to his opponent for the elections this fall. Could be used with fun results if he ever (not likely) agrees to an open debate in his district. Perhaps a letter to the editor of a local paper.... Greg

April 19, 2002, 10:33 AM	#12
Russ Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2001 Location: Kentucky, Refugee from California Posts: 1,097	Greg L., I come from the PRK. As long as Waxman runs in the district he is in as constututed, he has a job for life. Very liberal district. Just hope the DemoCRAPS don't get power in the House any time soon or you will be hearing more than you ever wanted to hear from this pig face sob.

April 19, 2002, 10:38 AM	#13
Greg L Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 1999 Location: Northern KY Posts: 542	Russ, I meant to send it to Towns opponent. I agree, short of death (and maybe not then) the ninnies out in Waxman's district will continue to vote for him no matter what. Greg (also a refugee from Ca living in Ky (but I managed to escape 18 years ago). I'm about 1.5 hours up 71 from you. Maybe we should get together sometime and swap horror stories )

April 19, 2002, 10:40 AM	#14
MuzzleBlast Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2001 Location: Arkansas. Much better place since Bill and Hillary went home. Posts: 1,044	Methinks he doth protest too much. __________________ Molwn labe!

April 19, 2002, 10:50 AM	#15
AugustWest Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2001 Location: Western Connecticut Posts: 212	I agree with trapshooter. For a Congressman from New York to say he doesn't represent his state, and to imply that being a congressman is being anything but a representative is really, really ignorant. It's also pretty scarey. State representatives thinking they are beholden only to the Federal gov't is dangerous. I hope he just misspoke.

April 19, 2002, 12:14 PM	#16
GSB Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2001 Location: Florida Posts: 939	How dare this cameraman think that the public has some right to know what its elected officials are doing! What does he think this is, a Constitutional Republic or something? __________________ GOA, NRA Life Member - "Freedom is not a 'loophole' "

April 19, 2002, 12:51 PM	#17
Brett Bellmore Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 1999 Location: Capac, MI, USA Posts: 1,927	Well, heck, what need do we have to know what's going on in Congress, if it's going to be illegal to tell anybody what we find out? I assume Waxman did vote for the recent campaign censorship law... __________________ Sic semper tyrannis!

April 19, 2002, 07:24 PM	#19
paratrooper Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2000 Location: Kingman AZ Posts: 1,290	I have never seen Waxman in person BUT he has always struck me as a high school music teacher that hopes someday to have sex . __________________ TOM NRA LDMA AMERICAN LEGION U.S. PARATROOPER

April 19, 2002, 08:15 PM	#20
Waitone Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2000 Posts: 2,904	He and they may not be afraid of the NRA but they certainly do respect its reach. What a shame! Imagine that; a politician concerned with the power of an interest group. __________________ "Given a choice between good intentions and human nature, I'll go with human nature every time."--Me, 2002.

April 19, 2002, 10:34 PM	#23
ernest2 Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 1999 Posts: 725	Whatever the [anything but] "Honorable Congressman" intended doing , he certaintly did not want his constituients or any one else for that matter, to know about it. It appears as if the congressman may have wanted to do his dirty deeds in secret. Criminal ways die hard and criminals hate doing anything in front of witnesses. Again, if they are not there to represent the states that elected them , just what do they think they are there for??? We live in a nation controled by NSA [National Security Agency] the Commeettee on Foriegn Relations, the trilateral commission, the CIA and the UN. My appoligies if I left out any other secret government control agiencies , but then, I never was in the loop. Land of the free???? Hell NO We have been a police state since the early 1950's. Just ask Congressman[witchhunt] McCarthy, he'll tell you! :barf: __________________ GUN CONTROL puts THE CONTROL in the hands of THE CRIMINAL POLITICIANS. "I AIN'T FLYING IN NO PLANE WHERE THE PIOLOT AND CO-PIOLOT DON'T EACH GOT A GUN !" ----------------------------------------------- In 2002, we must become politically active in support of gun rights or we WILL LOSE the right & the freedom. ------------------------- NO FATE BUT WHAT WE MAKE!!! ---------------------- Every year,over 2 million Americans use firearms not to take live but to preserve life,....limb & family .Gun Control Democrats would prefer that they are all disarmed and helpless and die victims of felony violence,instead. Protect your gun rights, go to: http://www.trteam.com/ The Tyrany Response Team

April 19, 2002, 10:53 PM	#24
Alex Szabo Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Location: Jacksonville FL-USA Posts: 96	Well done Cliff! Cliff Stearns is good people! I met him just before Corrine Brown absconded with a portion of his district in her initial gerrymandering maneuver and the subsequent court ruling agreeing so (going back close to 10 years now). He is most receptive and responsive to his constitutents both in and 'outside' (wink, wink) his district. You see, a portion of us have taxation without representation in Corrine Brown. Cliff however -- has always delivered! __________________ Best regards, Alex Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote! - Benjamin Franklin 1759

April 20, 2002, 01:57 PM	#25
DaiBando Senior Member Join Date: December 9, 2001 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 225	]" 'I understand that the camera that is now filming this hearing is owned and controlled by the National Rifle Association,' " Who was his source? Sarah Brady? Or just "voices in my head"? If I put my tinfoil hat on, it occurs to me that all these antis were after was another attempt to demonize the NRA by raising this Red Herring. If the NRA WAS taping, then it was a propaganda Bonanza for the antis - if not, well they got in a cheap shot.