VihtaVuori (or other) powder sub for Unique, in rifle cases?

[MZ5]

Hi, all.
I'm looking for a substitute for Unique, for use specifically in rifle cases like the 30-06 down to 308 capacity for very slow loads; think heavy-bullet, subsonic loads down to just plain gallery-level plinking with lightweights. I'm open to Alliant, Accurate, or others, but I'm especially interested in Vihtavuori powder options.

Such a powder needs to be super-easy to light, of course, and position-insensitive. The latter, at least, _MAY_ be inherent in using a moderate to quick pistol powder in a larger rifle case, or it may not. IDK.

I read this thread:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=611718
and the folks there were suggesting N320, N340, and N330. HOWEVER, this was all in pistol cartridges, not large-ish rifle cases.

Anyone tried any of those Viht powders in this way? What about other alternatives? Would faster powders like Clays or Accurate No.2 work? By nature I lean away from sphericals, given the heavy deterrent coatings the General Dynamics sphericals seem to generally use (I'm concerned about getting it lit and burning stably).

[Recycled bullet]

Lyman's AR reloading manual and lyman's cast bullet handbook have information that would be beneficial for you to read. What kind of bullets are you using? Gallery loading and subsonic loads can be questionable with jacketed bullets.

Shooting your gun into a barrel obstruction can be extremely dangerous so please be careful and don't do that!!!

I like to should shoot paper plates or metal plates or a "shoot n see" Target or some way that you can absolutely be certain that the bullet has left the gun and has struck the target.

I am and have been testing subsonic loads with powder coated cast bullets in bolt action rifles chambered 308 Winchester, 30-06 Springfield, 300 Blackout, using Alliant Bullseye Winchester Auto comp, Trail boss, Red Dot, Winchester 231 and probably some other powders I've forgotten about.

I'm going to guess between 5 and 10 grains of pistol powder is going to reach your goals.

I have never used VV gunpowder so I have nothing to say on that.

[mikejonestkd]

If you can find it - Trail Boss is the answer

[MZ5]

Thanks for the replies.

Recycled bullet, I understand and agree about caution relative to sticking bullets. I've loaded many 30-06 cartridges for subsonic speeds, but firstly that was always and only with Unique, and secondly that was now several years ago that I did it a lot. My method was to work down to target speeds, rather than working up as we usually do when working toward the top end of the pressure spectrum. I did stick a bullet or two when I was first trying this (which was actually for fire lapping purposes initially), but took care to remove the bolt and look down the barrel after every shot in order to make SURE the barrel was clear. In that initial learning work, I was using soft cast bullets and took a dowel to push out any stuck bullets.

Mikejonestkd, I agree that TrailBoss is wonderful stuff! Sadly, it's possibly the only thing I've found more difficult to obtain when I want it, than Unique.

My thinking here is not to totally replace Unique. I'd still be happy to use Unique, but I want some alternatives given the difficulties I've had getting it (I've found some here and there, but the price clarifies why it's available). Viht powders seem to be much more reliably available to me than most, so that was why I asked particularly about them, in addition to other alternatives.

[MZ5]

Recycled bullet, I'll look for your posts on the topic of subsonic loads for the '06.

[mehavey]

QUICKLOAD 22" barrel/30-06

VV_310/7.0gr

15,000psi each load below
- 175gr HPBT calibrat'n: 1,140 fps
- 200gr Lyman 311299: 1,064fps

ps: Take a range rod

[MZ5]

Thanks. I have QL. It does not and cannot address things like position-sensitivity, reliability and consistency of burn, etc.

[mehavey]

Fast Powders are generally very position insensitive as a rule.
VV-310 is about as fast as it gets.

[Jim Watson]

I did pretty well with 700X which is probably in the ballpark with N320.

[georgehwbush]

i have read warnings about cases less than 60-70% full, trail-boss was the only powder that hodgdon recomended for such things.

i personally do not know if the warnings hold any water or not, some argue that the danger of "detonation" exists; while others argue that it's not detonation, it is slug failed to exit the barrel before the next one was fired.

like i said, i do not know. but i do believe there is a reason to be cautious when using very light loads.


as op pointed out, ( p.s. take a range rod )

[reddog81]

I've used N340 and Unique in 300 Blackout with the same powder charge getting within 20 FPS. I've used Unique and N340 in .357 Mag with the same powder charge getting a 100 FPS difference. Unique gets the higher FPS in each scenario. I have no idea how N340 would perform in a larger case.

[AlaskaMike]

Red Dot, Green Dot, Blue Dot, Clay Dot, Promo, Clays, and don't forget Herco.

Also don't overlook 2400 or the 4227s. Some of the best lower velocity bottleneck rifle loads I've made have used 2400 and IMR4227, especially with heavier bullets.

For the lighter bullets, you definitely want to look at the faster burning flake powders like the ones I mentioned above.

You may also want to look at Power Pistol and BE86.

[MZ5]

Thanks, all, for the replies and input.

Jim Watson, reddog81, and AlaskaMike, thanks for sharing your experiences. I'll see if I can locate old threads with any additional info about that.