Tips for a new shooter?

[RemmyHun]

Hello,
My name is Remmy and I'm a 22 year old female who just recently got a Ruger KGP 141 as my first handgun. Something I spent almost a month deciding on. After reading the thread about "how durable is a GP 100" I am glad I chose it.

I recently went to the range to fire my Ruger for the first time. I'm not a bad shot but no where near what I'd like to be. I know practice will help a bunch, and I intend to frequent the local range, however I do have a delema of sorts. My left eye is my dominant eye, and my right hand is my dominant hand. This of coarse throws off my depth perception making it easier for me to aim at targeta farther away rather then closer.

I shoot .357 because that's what I intend to carry in it. I wanted to know if anyone here might have some tips or pointers that might help me along in my quest to improve my shot.

Remmy.

[oldkim]

Next time try to align yourself up and then cant (or lean) your head to the far right - this will make your left eye fall in line with your right arm more.

It's kind of like putting your head on your right shoulder. Moving your hands may work for some but I see that it places them out of a normal relaxed position and for a shooting session you'll begin to tense up and effect your accuracy.

Hope this helps - welcome to the forum.

[RemmyHun]

It's funny you mention me leaning my head because I naturally want to lean it to the right and have made an effort not to. I thought it would make my shot worse. -smiles- Show's what I know! In my mind I've done this [ align my head, level my gun, close my eye, fire] kind of thing. I'll lean it next time and see how that works for me.

Thank you for the tip, and the welcome! I won't be able to try it until the first week of Feb though, i'm moving this week. But I will come back and post if that helped or not. I really do appreciate the input.

Remmy.

[melchloboo]

1. Check the cylinder 3 times to make sure each chamber is empty. Then dryfire till it hurts. This is the best practice. Sight picture should be steady. If you have a laser grip, watch it on the wall and it should not move. The best shooters dryfire 3-10+x more than they live fire. There are plenty of stories of champion shooters who for whatever reason couldn't get to the range for a year, but religiously dry fired and won matches. Always make sure the gun is unloaded, check each chamber.

2. As to cross dominance, there are many approaches. Some would tell you that you may get better results just switching to left handed shooting. Others will tell you to adjust your grip, cant, or simply turn your head slightly to use the cross eye. Others will tell you just go ahead and use the weak eye. There are top cross-dominant shooters who use each approach. Just experiment.

3. I would say you will get better and more practice by using target load 38s. You can always finish a shooting session with .357. You'll save money and develop better skill. Also, depending on barrel length, carrying .357 you may gain just a smidge of power over carrying a 38+P that you might be able to recover from quicker.

[GreyOne]

Just a suggestion, you might want to shoot mostly 38 special for practice and only shoot a few 357 rounds at the end of each session.
There are a few reasons for this- first is economy, cheap 38 loads are half the price or less. Second , recoil- the constant battering of hand, wrist and ears with magnum rounds will tire you out more quickly and leave you practicing bad habits.

The milder recoil of 38 spl. lets you shoot more rounds with full control, and practicing grip, stance, breath control and sight aloignment are all done as easily with 38 as with 357.
Only in dealing with the recoil/ recovery phase does the 357 round need to be shot for practice.

[MrBorland]

Kudos to you for looking for wanting to be a better shooter and for asking for advice.

I agree with what's been posted, especially by melchloboo. I'm a big believer in dry fire. You can do most of what you need to do at home without even firing the gun. It's not only productive, it's a lot cheaper than sending lead downrange.

As far as the cross dominant issue, I'm a leftie, right eye dominant and learned to shoot rightie. I also practice leftie shooting, in which case I turn my head so I can still use my right eye, though it does tend to shift the POI to the right a bit for some reason. Experiment to see what works best for you.

The only other piece of advice I have I posted on another thread:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...4&postcount=33

[golfnutrlv]

Another great way to improve would be to take a handgun shooting class in your area, from a certified instructor. Find ranges in your area that are good with training and join in.

Just yesterday I took a 7 hour defensive handgun class. It really opened my eyes to all I did not know. Got a lot of practice in my future. Good instructors will mix classroom talks on law, mindset, awareness, and basic skills. THen add in practical range time, give you drills to work on, etc.

Im glad that you have made the decision to protect yourself, and I hope that you never have to use your weapon, as we all do, but we prepare all the same. Hope for the best, train for the worst.

[RemmyHun]

Wow. You guys are great. lol.

melchloboo: Before I even purchased the gun I read every saftey thing I could get my hands on. One of the phrases that stuck in my head more then the rest was "You can never check your gun too many times." Also mentioning If you set it down and go get a drink, check it when you come back, even if you're the only one there.

I do not have a laser grip, but I did read on another thread one could mount a pen laser. Do you agree? For practice purposes. I will try each of those suggestes for my cross-dominance particularly going lefty. Namely because I like the idea of not relying on my right. I'm one of those people that likes to be prepared even if odds are slim to none. As for .38s I'll take that advice. And I mine is a 4" barrel.

GreyOne: You, as well as the others, are right about price between .38s and .357. The range near me makes you buy the ammo there (other wise I would buy in bulk and save money). Last time I went 100 rounds of .357 was near $40. And I get what you guys are saying as far as perfecting the basics with a more shooter-friendly round before stepping up to the next, or as melchloboo suggested, opting for .38+P.

MrBorland: Thank you for the kudo's. I am a bit cocky and arrogant by nature, but I know when to bow my head and hold my hand out asking for help. I learned a long time ago, learning from your own mistakes is smart, but learning from others is wise. I figured most of the people here have been there, done that. And if taking your advice will save me time, money and agrivation I'm more then happy to do it.

With the POI for you being to the right have you ever been sucessful in acounting for it? Oh, and the advice on the other thread was also most helpful. :-D

golfnutrlv: There aren't too many shooting classes around here. One I'd have to join their club and this-that etc. The other place only has the classes for CCL (which is next on my list in time.) Though I do have a sister who was in the Navy and though she prefer's a 9mm she's a hell of a shot and had experience teaching people. Perhaps I'll ask her to assist.

As I said before, I'm the kind of person who likes being prepared, even if the odds are small of something going wrong. Some people would call it paranoia but I don't. I simply like being ready. Being able.

Thank you all for your suggestions. I will report back with what I tried, what helped, and what didn't come Febuary after I move. I'll start the dryfire practice now though.

[salvadore]

Have you tried shooting with your right eye closed?

[longranger]

RemyHun,

I am very left handed and right eye dominant, I could not disagree more with canting pistol/closing one eye.That will teach you alot of bad habits and your accuracy will never be what it could be by just switching hands.It will be awkward initially however you will overcome the awkwardness very quickly.
I have been through what others have suggested, It won't get you where you want to be, switching hands and going with your dominant eye will get you shooting good scores, as others have said,dry fire as much as you want and keep both eyes open.
If you decide to shoot rifles buy left handed bolt guns,single shots they tend to be ambidextrious.
Learning to shoot with your dominant eye is the best and only remedy.

[don95sml]

salvadore wrote:

Have you tried shooting with your right eye closed?

My solution is the opposite. Since I am left eye dominant, I keep my left eye closed or nearly closed while I am shooting with the right hand. This works well, especially for handgun shooting, but I even do it with shotguns where a wide field of vision is more important.

[BlayGlock]

I to am cross dominant like you are. I just do what the first poster said and lean my head down toward my shoulder to aim with my left eye. Works for me anyway, I just scored perfect on my ccw shooting test. I shoot weaver style.

[MrBorland]

Remmyhun -

I'll wax philosophic.

Shooting well is an act of faith. You must only align the sights and pull the trigger without affecting this, and all that's written beyond this is how to do this. These 2 things are the fundamentals of marksmanship. Shooting is an act of faith because you must trust that by applying these and only these fundamentals, no matter how fast you're shooting, your shot will be true.

Shooting is an act of faith because you must be honest with yourself. Did you really watch the front sight with undivided attention? Did you think you were watching it just because the target was blurry? Maybe you just weren't looking at anything. Did you watch it during recoil? What did it do? How was your sight alignment the instant the trigger broke? If you know, you'd already know where the shot hit (that's why the target ironically really doesn't matter and why dry fire is so powerful).

These are the fundamentals. Nothing else. Watching a laser dot's not a fundamental. Balancing a coin on the barrel's not a fundamental. As I mentioned, even the target itself isn't a fundamental. Drills like these may or may not help your shooting, and you should experiment, but remember that in the end, it's only about the fundamentals.

There's some good (and not-so-good) on-line reading available. There are some good books, too. A couple of the best include the USAMU Manual and A Pistol Shooter's Treasury. You can probably find a free pdf copy of the AMU manual on-line somewhere. I know individual chapters are available at bullseyepistol.com, which is also chocked full of good info.

Good shooting and keep us up to date!

[B. Lahey]

The best solution is to learn to shoot left-handed. It's easier if you do it now, rather than years from now after all the bad habits are set in stone (and yes, using your left eye to sight while shooting right-handed is a very bad habit).

If you ever get into competition, your coach will insist that you shoot lefty if he is worth his salt. Better to get it over with and learn now.

[melchloboo]

I do not have a laser grip, but I did read on another thread one could mount a pen laser. Do you agree? For practice purposes. I will try each of those suggestes for my cross-dominance particularly going lefty. Namely because I like the idea of not relying on my right. I'm one of those people that likes to be prepared even if odds are slim to none. As for .38s I'll take that advice. And I mine is a 4" barrel.

As far as a pen laser, yes, you can find some way of securing it to the barrel during dry fire. The idea is it should not move at all while you pull the trigger repeatedly. Start close to the wall, move further and further to see more detail. It is not easy.

As for the whole left/right eye/hand thing, be wary of anybody who tells you there is a "best" or "right" way. Experiment. For self defense and most revolver competitions, shooting with one-handed with each hand is required at some stage. However, I would suggest mastering your strong hand first, then moving on to the other hand.

[B. Lahey]

be wary of anybody who tells you there is a "best" or "right" way

... unless that person is a world-class shooting coach and you hear it not only from them, but every other expert you have ever heard weigh in on the matter. I have heard over and over again from top-notch competitors and their instructors that if you are left eye dominant, you shoot left handed. Period. End of story. My coach said so, the USAMU guys said so, the Olympic guys said so, it is a rule set in stone. I have never heard anyone reputable say otherwise.

The fact that some can stumble along using their cross-dominant eye does not make it right or even acceptable. If you want to shoot your best, you use your dominant eye and whatever hand is on that side of your body.

[RemmyHun]

salvadore: I always close my right eye, because my left eye is the dominant one and I thought I had enough to get over without trying to do it both eyes open.

longranger: I understand the logic behind learning to shoot with my left now before I get so comfortable with my right. And I also understand that it will keep me from having to tilt my head which will likely benefit me in the long run. And I am indeed after that. And i will keep that in mind for rifles as I do intend to own several guns in time.

don95sml: Are you saying to shoot with my weak eye?

BlayGlock: I am definatly not apposed to giving it a try. And my primary goal is to be a sharpshooter of sorts, though one of my sub goals is indeed getting perfect on my CCW testing so I can get my CCL.

MrBorland: You made me smile with this post Mr. Borland, because I am a "basics" kind of person more often then not. Such as there is no "I'll try" when you get down to it. You either do it or you don't. Pointing out the fact that shooting comes down to a persons ability to line the sights and take the shot; it's a great reminder I think. And that in the end it all comes down to me being able to keep it lined and steady when I squeeze the trigger.

B. Lahey: Are you suggesting to not even bother with my right hand? And in reference to your last post... though it may be unquestioned and best in the eyes of many, that doesn't mean it's the best for me. I'm not discounting it, but I am saying that for me to rule the other suggestions completely out simply because other people said so, I could very well be cheating myself. RRoE #25- Listening to advice doesn’t always mean you have to take it, just consider it.And I will. I'll be considering all the advice and probably trying it all as well. And though I do agree it sounds like I need to learn to shoot left anyway, I'll also be giving the other suggestions the consideration they deserve. And in the end, I'll use what works best for me.

melchloboo: I am weary of people who insist they are right and define something as fact when it is indeed truth. And for those who might not understand what that means I'll quickly explain. Fact is something undisputed and unquestioned. "Earth rotates around the sun" that is a fact. Truth is based on opinions, beliefs and perspectives. "The sun is big" that is a truth. If you do not compare the sun to other suns in the universe, it is big. But if you do compare it, it's very small. Back on topic, and on the flip side. They do have valid points about shooting left handed.

[B. Lahey]

Yeah, I didn't mean to sound so preachy, it just came out that way.

I've just sat through so many lectures by people who REALLY knew what they were talking about, I figured it was my duty to pass along those lessons.

One of my shooting-team members was very resistant to shooting lefty as she had grown up shooting right-handed. She went along with it until right before we shot at nationals one year when she decided to throw a hissy fit, demanding that she be allowed to shoot right-handed. Our coach rounded up a whole bunch of other coaches and top-notch shooters to give her the third degree and show her the light. It worked... eventually. I think what did the trick was the Olympic dude telling her that if she ever wanted to be a part of the Olympic Training Center program, she would have to shoot with her dominant eye.

Anyway, lots of king-hell shooters and coaches are very serious about this particular matter, so it's not something to brush off lightly.

[MrBorland]

Regarding eye dominance, I'll throw in my $0.02, based on my experience as a cross-dominant shooter, only in the hope that if might help.

You can certainly learn to shoot right handed and use your left eye. And you can go far shooting cross-dominant, but learning to shoot left-handed, IMO, is really the better way to go for a number of reasons:

First, as far as defense or combat action shooting, when shooting right handed using your left eye, you'll have to turn your head to the right, and so your left peripheral vision is now impaired. Something you definitely don't want in a SD situation. Worse, you may very well have also developed the habit of shooting with your right eye closed (another post), in which case your total field of view is seriously restricted just when you need it the most.

Second, when shooting for accuracy, being in a relaxed position is especially important. If your gun and dominant eye aren't lined up naturally, you're not relaxed. You can become a pretty good shot as a cross-dominant shooter. I myself am decent shot, naturally cross-dominant, but learned to shoot righty. I shoot just as accurately when I switch hands and shoot cross-dominant. But I'd like to improve beyond where I am, maybe do a little bullseye shooting. My default position will always be shooting right handed, right eye, since I'm in a more relaxed position. Shooting cross-dominant would therefore likely act as a ceiling at some point.

Again, though, experiment to see what works for you, but also think about why you're shooting in the first place, and whether cross-dominant shooting might pose a problem in the long run. If shooting lefty feels weird, know that through dry fire practice, it'll feel much more natural. Whatever you decide will be your "weak" hand, I recommend training it as well, as it's a very good skill to have.

Finally, and on another note, you didn't say whether you're shooting single action or double, but if you haven't started, I recommend becoming proficient with the double action trigger, especially if this is to be a carry/SD weapon. Yet another good reason to dry fire!

[WESHOOT2]

I've been 'nuturing' a new shooter (he's in his sixties, but extremely vigorous) who chose a KGP-141 (I own two, great gun. One is 'wife's', why WESHOOT2).
His is modified only with some bright orange paint on his front sight blade.

He, too, is left-eye, but (mostly) right-handed.

I invited him to a USPSA match.
He has immediately become utterly addicted (being, among other things, in his prior life a pro golfer).
ALL shooting is done DA, just like in real life.
He tried changing stocks but found his best performance came using the standard Ruger stocks.
He found out HKS speedloaders dropped in snow might not work when next called on, unless the ice is melted out.

He cants his head slightly to line up sights, but is working on 'both eyes open'.

Might I suggest the same for you?
Visit a local USPSA match, and watch the revolver shooters. Maybe try it yourself. Help WILL BE offered.

www.uspsa.org

[WESHOOT2]

Focus on the front sight, concentrate on the trigger.


SO simple to type, so hard to execute.

[RemmyHun]

B. Lahey: No worries mate, it's often very hard to convay emotion or intent through text. Plain and simple. And I didn't read it as preachy so much as someone very (emphasis on that) admiant about what you were saying. Which is understandable. I am not stuck on wanting to shoot right (my dom) I am open to working on left. And I will.

MrBorland: You, Mr. Borland, can talk to me about suggestions anytime. I say that because you appeal to my logic and reason. You're not just making a recomendation, you're explaining to me why. And that I greatly appreciate. Escpecially considering the valid logic in it. Even though the odds of me being in a combat or SD situation are slim, it would be very important for me to maintain optimal range in my field of vision which supports the need for left-hand fire. As for is I shoot SA or DA, so far, at the range, I shoot SA, but when I dry fire, I do so DA. I think because when there's actually ammo in the gun the trigger has a greater resistance (it's also not been broken in yet as I've only fired 100 or so rounds through it) and that resistance makes me hesitate. Where as Dry fire, there not as much resistance so I squeeze without hesitation. I'm going to have to force myself to fire the same dry as loaded. And perhaps it's all in my head. lol.

WESHOOT2: I have a silver dot on my front sight. lol. My ruger is all stock. I haven't changed anything on it and I don't think I will. It fits nicely into my hands. Like him, I am going to have to work on both eyes open. And I've never used a speed loader. I'd rather make sure I can shoot well, before I go for shooting fast. And I will look into it for sure (the link). Thank you. Oh and in reguard to your last post, definatly easier said/typed then done. :-D


To conclude(this reply) I am going to have one hell of a time going lefty. I'm determined to do it, but I already know how hard it's going to be for me to get it. Not that something like that has ever stopped me before.

Once again, I thank you all for your input. I really do appreicate it!

Remmy.

[ZeSpectre]

Send me some airline tickets so I can come down to your warm area and vacatio...oh um, TEACH you how to shoot well

In all seriousness though, we don't read a book and then go out driving a car, we take lessons. I strongly recommend doing so from a certified instructor.

I'm also a big fan of dryfire practice.

Learn, memorize, and understand the FOUR RULES. People love to debate the four rules to death but the plain and simple truth is they will help keep you (and others) safe from injury.

To conclude(this reply) I am going to have one hell of a time going lefty. I'm determined to do it, but I already know how hard it's going to be for me to get it. Not that something like that has ever stopped me before.

I shoot "the big four"
-Strong Handed, two handed
-Strong Handed, one handed
-Weak Handed, two handed
-Weak Handed, one handed

Some folks consider that a waste of time but I've been doing it for so long now that I can use any hand, any style, with any pistol and be fine. My only weakness is that I can NOT seem to get weak-sided shooting down pat with a shotgun.

[cnutco]

This is the best thread that I have read today.
Great post Remmy!

[BlayGlock]

I read that your primary goal is to be a sharpshooter, so I would learn to shoot left handed then instead of leaning your head dwon and shooting weaver style. My goal is just to be profeciant with a pistol for self-defense. I shoot long guns for hunting and have no interest in being a match shooter, but if you do then I would learn the "right" way. A retired cop at the range the other day told me to wear an eyepatch to correct my dominance problem, but I dont really like pirates.