Heckler & Koch or Glock?

[355sigfan]

The glock has much less muzzle flip due to a lower bore axis. At least that is my expearence between owning both a glock 21 and a HK usp full size. THe usp was a bear with +p 45 loads while the glock was easy to shoot with all loads. THe glock has a better trigger system. BOth are reliable and accurate. Hammers are obsolete all they do is increase lock time.
PAT

[ArmedPatriot]

Both fine weapons, wouldn't feel "bad" carrying either.

However, for me, the decision was simple. After shooting 'em side-by-side on several occasions, I shoot better with an HK. I was having a hard time deciding what to get, so I tried USP45f vs. G21 and USP45c vs. G30 (more than one set of each, on a couple of different outings) and had the same result in each case. Tighter groups with the HK every time. Besides, I just like the looks of my USP45 SS better....

- AP

[Oris]

I'm the bad guy who thinks that Glocks are ugly, but...
Glocks are extremely well designed and manufactured,
and the price is not something to bitch about. Would buy
Glock in preference to HK any time if forced to go
with a polymer frame.

[J. Parker]

It appears H&K is kickin' butt as it should because it's a better handgun anyway. Had three Glock's and two were unacceptable. My shootin' buddy and I both bought full size USP45's when they first came out. Like a dummy I traded mine for something else but he still has his thousands of rounds later and still loves it. I never had an H&K product before the USP and I must say I was REALLY impressed. Good stuff those USP's. Best, J. Parker

[355sigfan]

It appears H&K is kickin' butt as it should because it's a better handgun anyway. Quote from J Parker.

Well if it means anything to you 75% of the leo community disagrees with you and shoots glock. I went happlily from a HK usp to a Glock 21.
PAT

[J. Parker]

Well Pat, by golly, I'm glad you're happy. PS- LE doesn't enfluence my choices of firearms. It appears that the real experts (TFL gun enthusiasts) choose the fine H&K product...sorry.

[355sigfan]

J. Parker



There are also more non leo people shooting glocks than HK's so your wrong again. But thats ok both are fine guns.
PAT

[ArmedPatriot]

Well if it means anything to you 75% of the leo community disagrees with you and shoots glock.

I don't know the stats, but the most this means is that 75% of LEOs are actually carrying Glocks. That's only a useful comparison if those LEOs were able to evaluate both HK and Glock, and could choose either as their duty weapon at no difference in cost, etc. A host of factors affect what a department might issue, including cost, convenience, and perception (both inside and outside of the department). So I wouldn't bet that this statistic directly relates to what the officers would "prefer" to carry.

Otherwise, we should all go out and buy Chevy Caprices...

[savagehunter308]

gees u guys, i posted this poll b/c i was interested in wich is everyones preferance. u guys are very funny.

[Morgan]

As one of the lucky policemen who work for a department with choice, I get to choose between the Glock and H&K (and several other weapons). There are changes to both pistols by department policy, the H&K not being allowed to be condition 1 and the Glock requiring the NY trigger spring.

My choice, however, would be the same regardless: H&K, by a long shot.

[George Helser]

glh

You said:
“The Glock is a fine CCW weapon and quite safe.”

Would you carry a Glock with a round in the chamber in your pocket or in Thunderware?

I like my G26 a lot but its single action trigger with no safety makes it the LEAST safe weapon in my inventory.

Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona

[don't shoot it's me]

I avoid conflict as much as possible so I took my glock and Usp to my smith and he mated the upper from the glock to the lower of the Usp....now I can sit back and not worry how the vote comes out.....

[Paul K]

Hk is better

I think HKs pistols look better aswell, and HKs are tougher.
They come with a lifetime warranty and are pretty accurate.
Sure there more money, but they are worth it.
The government took some usps and torture tested them, firing at extremely low tempitures, and also with barrel ubstuctions.
here is the data:

Testing Data
Information provided by HK, Incorporated

Tolerance Inspection- Trigger Pull, firing pin energy and
protrusion, headspace, caliber,
velocities, etc.

Safety Inspection- Controls and safeties

Proof firing (2 Winchester DP40 proof
rounds)


Targeting- Zeroing (25 meters, POA/POI)

Ammunition compatibility

More than 85,000 rounds fired thus
far during testing of the USP40

Accuracy (USP40, 10 shots, 25 meters)

Most accurate (3.2 - 3.9 in.)


Reliability/functional test- 20,000 round reliability test
Fired in various attitudes, checked
every 1,000 rounds for cracked or
broken parts and for accuracy.
slide manually cycled 1,000 times
after each 10,000 rounds fired.

No normal wear detected in less than
5,100 rounds

USP40 and USP9 perfect record through
first half of the test. Second half
of test ongoing at time of writing
(This document
was printed in August of 1993.)


Barrel obstruction test- Live round fired with projectile
positioned at forcing cone and
30mm into muzzle.

No damage to pistol.
Accuracy unaffected.


Drop tests- According to SAMMI/ANSI Z299.5/1990 and
German BMI test methods. Primed case in
chamber, 13 dummy rounds loaded,
hammer cocked, safety/decocking lever set
to "fire"

All six sixes of weapon, plus 45 degree top
muzzle, onto rubber from height of 4 feet.

Six times onto cocked hammer onto
steel/concrete from height of 3 and 6.7 feet.

No ignition or primer indent permitted.
Pistol must function normally after tests are
completed.


Noise level test- Measured in dB (A) height of muzzle, 1 meter
front and left of muzzle.

Winchester and Remington 180gr JHP=139dB

Remington 155gr JHP=143.5 dB

Fouling test- 1,000 rounds w/o cleaning or lubrication
Comparable to S&W 4006


Environment test- Low temp (-46 C, -51 F)
(NATO AC225-D14) High temp (63 C, 145 F)
Mud bath (10 minutes exposure)
Particulate (sand) (10 minute exposure)
Freezing rain (1 hour to -46 C)

[Glock236]

I agree that the USP's are tougher in some ways to a Glock but that doesn't neccesarily make it better, you have to sacrifice extra weight for that extra toughness.

[Hank Smith]

HK All the way

I have shot the Glock 9mm and 45, both worked very well. When I shot my friends H&K USP Compact 40 I was hooked. So I went out and bought one, to say the least it is awesome. I have only put 300 rounds through it, but not a single malfunction as of yet. Really great piece of hardware.

Hank

[Spin]

Well, Glock is surely popular. I can't talk much about it, when I was in the military a single soldier (bachelor) would store his Glock in my arms room so I got familiar with it. Mechanically, nothing special. Someone mentioned they each have their own advantages. Maybe, but some advantages are much more important than others. You may like Glock's customer service (in this day an age that's in short supply) but the H&K USP series has some very significant technological advancements that affect accuracy, maintenance, power, operation. What's to not like. You big boys may not see it, but take a small framed lady and put a Glock in .40 in her hands and then put a H&K USP in .45 in her hands and I guarantee you she'll notice the superb engineering difference of the H&K in practice. My wife, a relatively new but practiced shooter, felt the Glock .40 much more than my full sized USP in .45. For anyone, not just smaller frames or ladies, recovery is significantly important for a self-defense firearm, but I've learned it can affect smaller frames much more than we might expect. Practice helps, but it still takes more.

The hostile environment finish is outstanding. The polygonal barrel seems like just a GW feature, but read up on it and you'll find it comes with a few significant advantages. I still love it for it's GW effect anyway! No lands and grooves? Hmm....

To each his own, but on it's technical merits alone the H&K's are hard to beat. It's one reason why the Mark 23 was recently chosen as the SOCOM standard side arm. Just some stats, average 6000 mean rounds between stoppages with both ball and +P ammo, only 2000 is required. In 450 accuracy test firings, average group 1.44 inches, w/ 65 groups < 1", 4 groups of .5", with 5 rounds through the same hole. Far exceeding government requirements.

But, hell, who can live with just ONE gun! I don't think I'll ever buy a Glock however.

Either way, Happy shooting!

[J. Parker]

Welcome Spin, to TFL. BTW, it appears Glock's are catching me...do I get to vote again?

[Spin]

? How do I reply/quote from a specific message ?

Morgan > There are changes to both pistols by
Morgan > department policy, the H&K not being
Morgan > allowed to be condition 1

That's interesting! Do you consider the Glock to be condition 1? I would consider them 2, aren't they best described as DAO?

Where does a chambered and decocked pistol fit in? It's neither Condition 2 or technically even 1. Shall we call it 1.5? For the H&K at least, and most others usually, there is simply /no/ way for a decocked handgun to accidentally fire. You must pull the trigger. It's like a DA pull only not quite as far.

What's the pull on a Glock? It may be slightly lighter than a normal DA pull, but not as light as a SA pull. How hard is it to thumb the hammer? (Well I suppose on a Glock...) The Mossad use a draw and rack technique that takes advantage of raising your weapon into position. That'd make Condition 3 even better if you consider the following SA pull. Although I suspect we don't want to see our police officers racking their slides when they pull their weapon. Is that an issue?

A DA pull is nothing to be scared of, it. Sure it takes practice, but that's all it takes, humans are /very/ trainable! Ultimately, it may even be helpful providing the last bit of resistance to the finality of firing the weapon, without detracting (with practice) on the ability to fire it immediately.


Either way... Happy Shooting!

[denfoote]

Let me put it to you this way. I own three Glocks. No H&K's!!!!!!!
The only HK that ever struck my fancy was the MP-5 Kurtz, and I cannot even begin to afford, let alone find one!!!

[don't shoot it's me]

I met a woman once who said whe wouldn't sleep with me because my gun was too ugly. Thank God I had my clothes on at the time but I did have a glock 19 strapped to my side...dumped it for a P7 and been getting the girls ever since.....

[Glock236]

Hey Spin, if you read the whole thread you'll notice that I've owned a Fullsize H&K USP .40 and put over 2000 rounds thru it as well so I know a little about each gun. You talk about the H&K having these advantages, " accuracy, maintenance, power, operation" Let's look at this...

Accuracy: Maybe more accurate for you but not for Me or my Wife...Especially w/ that crappy first Double action pull and the single action pulls after were maybe as good as the Glocks pull. I've heard arguments from both sides and know they're close(except if you're comparing the $2500 SoCom or other Specialty USP)

Maintenence: They're basically the same

Power: ???? What are yolu talking about?

Operation: It's a matter of personal preference.

It's obvious that you're an H&K fan like myself but don't spout B.S. about something you don't have a clue about.

Oh yeah... I forgot about the USP .45 vs. .40 Glock (Which one?) argument, You're 100% right about the .40 Glock having more recoil, especially since most .40 cal rounds have snappier recoil then most .45 rounds.
You have a lame argument going

[Spin]

Well I'd never argue with such an astute expert as one who calls himself Glock236. Even if it's apparent he was challenged even understanding my message.

Otherwise, I'd watch that finger!

[Glock236]

Sorry if you don't understand my name... I'll make it easy for you
Glock= Maker of my guns
23= Glock 23
36 = Glock 36
So I could have done
2336 or 236 which easily represents both guns.
Sorry if it's too hard for you to comprehend.

[Dave T]

Our local PD has issued the HK USP for a couple years now. Their experience has been:
1. HK customer service sucks, even for a LE agency. The City just bought some more HK just to have spare parts.
2. Firing pins reportedly break from extensive dry firing.
3. The slides rust, almost over night.

Glock has great customer support, you can dry fire them until your finger gets tired, and they don't rust.

Yea, you guys must be right, the HK is obviously better.

[Mal H]

Spin and Glock236 - Discuss H&K and Glock all you want, but please refrain from discussing each others powers of comprehension. Use email for that if you feel you must continue.