Define Neoconservatism

[Jericho9mm]

Neocon is a term that is being used in many different ways and I was just wondering if there was a way to come to a consensus or if there was a way to identify what exactly a neocon is. I have heard many different uses for the word but was wondering what was the most common, at least here on TFL among "friends".

My understanding is that "NeoCons" today are what "Reagan Democrats" were 20 years ago, so who would neocons be right now according to your definition? What do you think?

(to self: can there be NeoLibs?)

[badbob]

Jericho9mm
Merriam-Webster gives two definitions, take your pick.

neoconservative

One entry found for neoconservative.
Main Entry: neo·con·ser·va·tive
Pronunciation: "nE-O-k&n-'s&r-v&-tiv
Function: noun
1 : a former liberal espousing political conservatism
2 : a conservative who advocates the assertive promotion of democracy and U.S. national interest in international affairs including through military means
- neo·con·ser·va·tism /-v&-"ti-z&m/ noun
- neoconservative adjective

badbob

[Heist]

Person ostensibly out to achieve a conservative end through liberal-leftist tactics.

[Jericho9mm]

I could have asked webster at any time but common usage is much more persuasive when trying to find the social definition to a word. Why do we use it the way we do?

sorry i am a shameless etymologist

[Mad Martigan]

I would say it is a fiscally liberal, socialy conservative, jingoist type deal.

[GoSlash27]

I'll go with the Merriam-Webster definition #1, but I've got a simpler version:
A Neo-Con is a Totalitarian masquerading as a Conservative.

[badbob]

A neo-con is someone espousing conservatism while pushing a liberal agenda.

badbob

[badbob]

GoSlash27 probably has a better definition.

badbob

[tyme]

Wikipedia to the rescue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative

[Epyon]

Equates to neo-nazi. They are "conservatives" who are into deficit spending, allow big business to overrun them at the expense of human life, tax payer's money and the environment, and push unconstitutional religious values into government, and like passing bills that violate the Bill of Rights. Shouldn't the meaning of being a conservative mean that you WANT to preserve the Constitution, and save money, as well as protect our environment? Wouldn't being conservative also mean that we should definately be a secular nation regardless of what the majority religion is; and for those who are religious, doesn't being conservative mean keep your god(s) to yourself? To me, BOTH the Republicans AND the Democrats are a problem when it comes to freedoms. Why can't I have a party that's pro-gun, pro-right-to-die, pro-gay marrige, pro-marijuana, pro-secular, pro-education? (believe me, American schools are nothing compared to other countries and their system. It's such a disappointment that much of the things I was taught in school wasn't enough.) In other words, why can't I have a nation that believes in personal responsibility, and the idea that government shouldn't have such a huge amount of control in our lives? I believe that government should only enact rights not take them away. How about a government that can be held accountable? I'd like for my leaders to admit their mistakes when the evidence is right there in front of their eyes. What about government that serves people not businesses? That would be very nice too. But this is all wishful thinking, and probably won't happen unless things collapsed under their own weight.


Epyon

[Eghad]

Im thinking Ronnie would have fired every one of them. Ronnie started the beat down on the evil empire without ever firing a shot. Dubyah's dad was even a little smarter, do the mission and get the hell out.

I would say that neocons beleive in preemptive use of force as the means to effect foriegn policy. The test of this will be if democracy can be established in Iraq and can be sustained. That they are the abritrators of right and wrong for the American people and the world. They want to remake the worlds countries into a bunch of free market democratic societies despite cultural differences. However we have seen the appeasment creep in dealing with the Iranians and North Koreans. Looks like some reality has set in.

A true conservative believes in a government that is subservient to the people not a government that defines a itself as superior to the citizens by telling them what is best for thier safety. Lets hope the court beatdown on these "secret" powers continues to put even more reality into the neocon movement.

Like a bizarro Karl Marx

[Destructo6]

"NeoCon" is a catchy label, used by the left and those not currently in power.

[joab]

Why do we use it the way we do?

Same reason Nazi, Racist and Whore is used the way it is used.
It's a catchy phrase guarranteed to piss off whoever it is aimed at.

[Epyon]

Lets hope the court beatdown on these "secret" powers continues to put even more reality into the neocon movement.

I agree, however, sitting on our butts "hoping" that things will get fixed won't do a thing. People everywhere have to start waking up, not just the few who have declared to throw away their TVs and question authority. We have to somehow put fear and terror into our governments instead of the People being held in fear, and allowing their freedoms to be lost for "security". Unfortunate that the Second Amendment and the rest of the Constitution and Bill of Rights is just a fancy dusty document sitting in a back vault filed away, as we continue to allow infringments on our freedoms. The few Americans who are trying to push the American government to repair our situation are being quieted by either not getting news coverage, or probably just thrown in secretly as political prisoners in "the war on terror". So maybe a disturbing number of people want government in their lives, and need the comfort/convenience of government so that they don't have to be as responsible as individuals, if that's the case go live somewhere else. If this is supposed to be the land of the free, then stop making so many rules, and stop thinking you can just whisk away rights on a whim. How come the judicial branch hasn't done its job on reviewing the bills that can easily be deemed as unconstitutional? So much for checks and balances, the courts are probably bought out by big money too.


Epyon

[Eghad]

Everytime the ballot box is open im standing in line.

[Jericho9mm]

So are they really conservatives or just liberals or libertarians espousing conservative social principles for political favor? It seems a pro war attitude is one of their attributes, wouldn't economic liberals who voted for the war on terror be considered NeoCons.

besides who the "pundits" labels as neocons who would you consider Neocons today? Could Hillary Clinton be considered a NeoCon as she moves to the center before the election? how about John McCain. I already know most people consider VP Cheney a NeoCon but I think that might be common knowledge.

not trying to stir the pot i am sincerely interested.

[badbob]

Jericho9mm, I'll try to answer your questions but remember it's just my opinion. First liberals and libertarians are probably polar opposites. A liberal wants the government to take care of them cradle to grave. They want every part of their lives and yours to be controlled. Libertarians, on the other hand, want NO government control over their lives. Libertarians believe the (very limited) government should serve the people, liberals believe everyone should serve the (big) government.
Second, Hillary may try to pass herself off as a conservative but it would be like putting perfume on a pig. She would be the ultimate Neo-Con if she can pull that off!
Third, McCain is a liberal on most issues. I don't see how or why he runs as a Republican. Definite Neo-Con because he says he's Conservative but votes Liberal.

badbob

[GoSlash27]

Jericho,
Neo-Cons and Libertarians are polar opposites.
Let me see if I can explain it with a picture....

[Mad Martigan]

Hillary is a just a commie.

[tube_ee]

Neoconservatism is an almost purely foreign-policy ideology, at least as I understand it. The use of American military might to remake certain parts of the world (specifically the middle east, although I doubt they'd have stopped there) into (radically) free-market pro-American democracies. The markets so created were supposed to be dominated by American corporations, with the governments of the countries we "liberated" having little or no say in the distribution of their nation's resources. "To the victors go the spoils." I guess they figured the people of those countries would be OK with that, or at least be unable to do anything about it. Iraq was their big test case, and if you were listening to their confident predictions before the war, you'll remember what they thought was going to happen. Oops.

Neoconservatism hasn't really had much of a domestic agenda, except as it relates to securing the power they needed to put their plans into place. Many of the political actors from the movement have had domestic policy ideas, but that's not quite the same thing. They are more than simply neo-cons. They're neo-cons, plus whatever else they are politically. The "pure" neo-conservatives, like Fukuyama, Wolfowitz and Perle, never cared much for domestic policy, and certainly never contributed anything in the way of ideas in that realm.

It's a nationalistic, might-makes-right, idealistic ideology, dreamed up by some right-wing academics and a bunch of parasites who've gotten rich by moving from government service to corporate boardrooms and back again. Tellingly, none of these folks has ever put on a uniform. That they so completely miscalculated what would happen when their pet thoeries were put into the real world is typical of those whose "knowledge" is purely theoretical, based only on a study of things other people have done.

What is Neoconservatism? A total, end-to-end, unremitting failure. Which we will be paying for, in blood and treasure, for at least a generation. Will it be the end of us? No, I don't think it will. But undoing the damage it has caused will take a lot longer than it took to do the damage in the first place. Ain't entropy great?

--Shannon

[Jericho9mm]

I understand that liberals and libertarians are different i was jsut using two different political ideologies to say that anyone can be a Neo-con not just conservatives.

so basically people accredit Neoconservatism for defeating communism in the end but not in vietnam? so foreign policy emphasis makes neocons more likely to support globalization rather than isolationism, which is what both major parties are concerned about right, domestic issues?

[tube_ee]

Neoconservatism didn't defeat communism. It couldn't have, as it was a movement that started in the 1990s, after the 1st gulf war. Neoconservatism wouldn't have been possible without the fall of communism. It was America's position as the sole remaining superpower that the Neo-cons were basing their whole theory on. Another part of the ideology was to use American wealth (and arms, if needed) to ensure that we remained the only superpower. That one's worked out about as well as the rest of their fantasies... Just ask the Chinese.

--Shannon

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Neocons - fast talking guys with the power to lead slow talking fellows named George to make big BooBoos.

[Eghad]

Neoconservatism hasn't really had much of a domestic agenda,

you mean as in I am the president and my powers during war supercede the Constitution type of domestic policy?

I would call that a whopper of a domestic policy.

[MeekAndMild]

A neoconservative is a Democrat in drag.