Teaching young kids about guns(?)

[CindyH]

I'm thinking I need to start teaching my three-year old son gun safety, etc. The problem is, that when he sees me do something, he thinks he should do it, too.

Example:
He thinks he should be allowed to plug in the vacuum cleaner. I can't count how many times he has been reprimanded and even severely spanked for doing this. He still does it.
So, I'm afraid that, "This is Mommy's gun. It can hurt you. You don't touch it," just won't be good enough.

I even thought that if another adult talked to him, it would carry a little more clout. So, the other day, Ricky saw Coinneach holding my gun and he said (very nicely), "Ricky doesn't touch this."
Well, that was it. My extrememly over-sensetive little boy thought he was being reprimanded by someone he likes and he was so embarrassed that he almost started to cry.

I'm wondering what othre parents have done and how they handle gun safety in their homes.
I'd appreciate any suggestions. Thanks, in advance.

[akira]

Hi cindyh

I also have a child. 3 month old named Joe. I have already been planing to make my home safer.

Planning to buy a safe for the guns but would also love to hear any other way I can make my home even safer for my boy.

Thanks for bringing this subject up.

any info will be helpful

AKIRA

[sumabich]

With ownership comes responsibility! I would recommend the NRA's stance and teach them "if you see a gun go get an adult". Use a real (visably unloaded gun" and model the "oh my I have found a gun, what do I do" training. Don't use a toy cause he or she will think it's fun to rat on all the toy guns! My youngest was 10 when we started with the "What are the 4 rules of gunsafety" and she is now 11 and turning out to be quite a shot. All of my kids know that guns are serious business. Keep the guns secure. My older brother lost his only son at age 6 because a relative was not a responsible gun owner. If it's not on you, lock it up. Even though it is rare for this kind of death to occur, I for one wouldn't want to live with it. If you are a single female, invest in one of those bedside gunsafes that are number coded or make sure the kid is not in your room if you have it under the pillow. My 2 cents (worth about 1/2 cent in today's market!

[Jeff Thomas]

The more I've learned about firearms, the easier this question seems to be, IMHO.

Kids are a lot smarter than most adults believe. When my youngest was 6, he learned the 4 basic firearm safety rules ... all guns are always loaded, don't point the muzzle at anything you're not willing to destroy, keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire, and know your target and what's beyond it. I used to pay him a quarter when he'd rattle these off ... now, he has me up to $1, and does it sometimes when we're with friends. Best money I spend.

The Eddie Eagle message is great as well. A message of avoidance that will work for most young kids [nothing works 100% of the time, and the anti-self defense gun bigots like to trivialize the Eddie Eagle message ... while they support sex education ].

Just like you take precautions with drawers, cabinets, drugs and sharp objects, you do the same with firearms. There are many products available to secure firearms away from young hands. Mini-vaults, safes that fit in cars, rapid access panels that fit in walls, etc. Trigger locks and even padlocks have their applications as well. Loaded firearms can never be left in a location where an unauthorized person (including children) can gain easy access, IMHO.

When your boy gets a little older, check out the Marlin 15YN for educating him in the proper and safe use of a firearm. It is a well made, single shot .22 bolt action rifle. Nicer, IMHO, than the Chipmunk. Great training firearm.

And, the truth is, with all this education, your boy will be much safer than the poor kids that are kept ignorant about firearms, because the irresponsible adults in their lives believe that ignorance is best. Sad, dangerous 'logic'.

Regards from AZ

[Ledbetter]

Good for you for thinking of safety. Sumabich's .02 is actually worth closer to .0225, and I'm not trying to outbid him.

I have a ten year old daughter. Here's what I think works. Keep the gun(s) locked up unless you're in control of them, by which I mean physically connected.

When your son begins to understand what guns are from television, tell him everything he sees on TV about guns is wrong, those are only actors. Tell you and other people have an actual gun, in case you need one, and it is never to be used as seen on TV.

Let him handle the unloaded gun when he reasonably asks to, so he won't try when you're not around. Satisfy his curiosity. Buy him a BB gun when he's old enough and teach him the basics of gun safety. He can go to the range with his new .22 when he shows you he has mastered them. Let him know that mistakes with a firearm are not allowed, as they are usually acts of carelessness. Demonstrate the power of a pistol at an appropriate location (gallon jug of red-food-colored water or two by four).

Good for you, and good luck.

Regards,

Ledbetter

[CindyH]

Thanks for your replies. I guess I should have included this question on my first post: Do you think it's OK for me to let him handle an unloaded gun, with the understanding that he can only touch if I am there and I say it's OK? Or is this too young an age and does it contradict the Eddie Eagle stuff too much?
BTW, the Eddie Eagle video is on order. I happen to know for a fact that TV characters are much more interesting than I could ever hope to be!

Also, I like somabich's idea about role-playing. His favorite video is Rikki-Tikki Tavi and now he thinks every little string that touches him is a snake. "Eeek! Mommy, look snake! Get it off!" This would be a good idea, but I don't think I want him to be *afraid* of guns, do I? At his age, I think my choices are limited. Something is either good or it's bad. (I think this is just the beginning, isn't it?)

[This message has been edited by CindyH (edited June 20, 2000).]

[Darthmaum]

cindyh,

My 7 yo daughter holds our unloaded guns quite often. Before letting her, my husband and I showed her how to receive a firearm, how to hold it, and how to hand it off to someone. We always let her help clean them if she wants, and we let her hold the bullets. She has known the 4 safety rules for a year now and can repeat them. I agree w/ Jeff, most adults underestimate what kids are capable of learning. Kids are like sponges!

Our girl is going to have an opportunity later this summer to shoot for the first time, and she is really excited about it!

As I have said numerous times on this forum, if guns are an everyday part of life (like the TV or steak knives), kids are much less apt to think of them as mysterious. My daughter has grown up around steak knives everyday of her life and would NEVER think to grab one and start waving it around. Same thing with our guns! She sees them everyday, when we're at home or out (we have CHLs).

The mistake comes when parents hide the fact that there's a gun in the house, and the kid finds it on accident and doesn't know what to do!

Good luck with your little boy!

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"Pray as if your life depends on God, Prepare as if it all depends on you..." -Texas Preacher

[DorGunR]

Darthmaum,
"As I have said numerous times on this forum, if guns are an everyday part of life (like the TV or steak knives), kids are much less
apt to think of them as mysterious. My daughter has grown up around steak knives everyday of her life and would NEVER think
to grab one and start waving it around. Same thing with our guns! She sees them everyday, when we're at home or out (we have CHLs)."

That's the way I started teaching my son when he was 5 yo. It worked for me, he is now 24 and still loves shooting and he is very safe.

Good luck.

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"Lead, follow or get the HELL out of the way."

[Miss Demeanors]

Cindy, just remember not to trust him completely. My daughter was doing real good (she hasn't seen a real gun just yet) in knowing not to touch a gun and get an adult. But within the past month I heard her say something VERY disturbing, she had said to her niece and her father (separate times) "I'm going to get a real gun and kill you" She was spanked and sent to her room IMMEDIATELY. Although I think she heard that from other kids,I do not have 100% confidence in her just yet. I should be getting a .22 soon, at that time I will show her the proper way to hold it and handle it unloaded but it is still going to be locked up very tight. She wants to go shooting but after those 'incidents' I told her she will not be able to go if I continue to hear her talk like that or show me that she is not a big girl. That seemed to have gotten to her the most because she really wants to try it. All I can recommend is keep quizzing Ricky, show him the video, and let him handle the unloaded gun and make sure he sees you handling it safe too. Kids are so unpredicatable and I think we,as parents, have to make sure that child will NOT get to the gun, trained or not. The time will come soon when we can take them shooting after they show that responsibility first. Good luck (Your little RIcky is adorable btw)

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[Jeff Thomas]

One other important point I forgot. Whenever you start anyone out on shooting, load only one round at a time. It's a hassle, but well worth it. New shooters of any age tend to forget about muzzle control after the first shot.

I nearly learned this lesson the hard way, and I'll never make that mistake again.

Regards from AZ

[TheBluesMan]

Cindy,

There's some great advice here, but remember, every child is different, and NOBODY knows your child as well as *you* do. If some of this advice doesn't quite seem right to you, don't do it just yet. Trust yourself.

In my case, my 6yr old daughter is still in the "Stop. Don't Touch. Leave the Area. Tell and Adult." phase. She has been tested and has passed every time. Other folks have their kids shooting a .22 by this age, but it's just not right for my girl.

This summer she'll be trying out a new BB gun (as soon as T-Ball is over) and learning the "grownups" four rules. If she doesn't seem interested, I won't push her. But she will keep reciting the four rules for me.


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RKBA!
"The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security"
Ohio Constitution, Article I, Section 4 Concealed Carry is illegal in Ohio.
Ohioans for Concealed Carry Website

[Lake]

I agree totaly with Ledbetter and Sumabich, my four year old knows to get an adult when he finds a real gun I have tested him and he is quite sneaky about everything, but guns he understands are not for play. I have had to fight my wife constantly about him seeing and touching my guns...but she did not grow up with them like I did and does not understand the pride a child feels when he is given his first chance to shoot a weapon and the privledges that come with it, but she is comming around!!

[G-Freeman]

Thanks Jeff. It has been awhile and I intend to do just what you suggest in the intro program I have planned this weekend.

[Blueyedog]

Cindy,
Let Ricky be around when you guys are shooting. I used to have problems with my step-grandson. He never actually got a hold of a gun, but he was always the one you NEVER trusted. He would say he'd get a gun and shoot bad guys if they broke in. Nothing would change him from saying this. I took him to my parents when we were all shooting one day. He had on ear protection, but had never been near when we had shot before. I took him right up behind the shooter. He clung to me - this was a big change from the Mr. Big attitude he'd always had before. He didn't let go of my hand the whole time we were shooting. Needless to say, I didn't get to shoot that day. But, it did the trick. I no longer hear how he's going to get a gun and shoot a BG. Now he just wants to karate chop them.

Since Ricky is sensitive to Coinneach, I'd use that. Most boys view mom as just *mom* but they don't want to disappoint the men they look up to. They want to be as big as they are. Something Coinneach says will stick in Ricky's head a lot longer. He also has that thousand-yard-stare down pat ... it would scare me ... and I'm a heck of a lot older than Ricky.

Handling an empty gun is a great idea. I did that with my son. He wasn't allowed to shoot a gun until he could handle an unloaded one responsibly. He had to show he could check to see if it was loaded, keep it aimed down, up or down range, etc. I also got some snap caps so I could slip one in there just to see if he knew what to do when he found it 'loaded'.

Good luck! It's great fun when the whole family can go and have a fun and safe time shooting.


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Refuse to be a "helpless" victim.
Knowing Your Rights WAGC in Indiana

[sumabich]

I am so proud of everone here. Great ideas and caution. But as always I gotta bring something up a little more serious. As parents we are trying to teach our kids to be safe. But what we haven't discussed here is what happens when the 3 year old goes to day care and says "mommy let me play with her gun"! Or older in school "mommy and daddy have lots of guns". Geeze it's enough to keep you up at night. The zero tolerance trained teacher could make life miserable, and if you're involved in a messy divorce.. Do I have to paint this picture. Mine started with get an adult, as they aged low powered BB guns (recite the 4 rules) and now into the real deal. But things today are different when I started with mine. We now discuss what to say and what not to say. They are using the new "pro rights verbage with their peers" and I think my son is working on converting his best freinds dad. He was over there and they started talking about guns, James let them know he was shooting and they said proudly "we don't even own a gun, we've got a burgular system"! To which James replied "what will you do if they cut your phone lines"! He then relayed the fact that I usually showed up 20minutes before the police did when my company's building alarm went off. And I go in armed! They are actually considering comming over for some shooting. I am so proud of him. Anyway, sorry I digressed. Bottom line no matter what you do it could backfire in today's climate and I don't think you need a 3 year old handling a gun. Best of luck on this one!

[Miss Demeanors]

Blue, I think my daughter may be like your step-son Taking her to hear the loud BOOM might just be the trick (Lord knows she can't handle thunder ). That is a really good idea, I think you need to install a little fear in them, not much but just enough to make them think before they speak.

[Blueyedog]

sumabich
Good point. You can't stress too much when they are young NOT to talk about your guns. For the reasons you stated and the fact that I don't want anyone trying to break in here, even if we do have an alarm system and a dog. BUT, no matter what the political climate is, you got to teach them what a gun is and what it can do at the youngest age possible. No matter how careful we are there is still a margin for error - and we never know where else they may encounter one. I think if they attend daycare they should learn as young as possible about guns. You never know how careful other parents are with their firearms. Kids will be kids, you NEVER know what will come out of their mouths next. But letting them remain ignorant can do worse damage. Also, you have to get in their heads early that guns are NOT evil and it's OK to own and enjoy them. You know the schools will be dropping their steaming pile of anti-goo on them at the first possible opportunity.

I don't think Cindy is suggesting that her 3 year old is ready to start shooting, but she is thinking about teaching him what he needs to know now, and what direction to go with it in the future. All we can do is give her suggestions from our own experiences. Each kid is different. My son, now 13, learned differently than my step-grandson, now 8. They have 2 totally different personalities, so you have to adapt your teaching to them.
My son wasn't allowed to handle an empty gun until about age 7. Having him do that allowed us to gage when he was ready to shot a loaded one. This didn't happen until about age 9, but he didn't shoot regularly until about 10. My grandson has shot a BB gun, but I think it will be a lot longer before he calms down enough for the bigger stuff.



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Refuse to be a "helpless" victim.
Knowing Your Rights WAGC in Indiana

[Coinneach]

No way in aitch-ee-double-toothpicks are we gonna give Ricky a gun of any sort, until he's ready for it. We have a tentative timeline in place (BB gun, .22 bolt, .410, the usual progression), but he's not getting one of his own until we feel he's ready.

However, giving him the Eddie Eagle program can't but be a Good Thing.

[CindyH]

Thanks for all the great suggestions! A few weeks ago, this woman at a meeting was sayong how her two-year old has his own .22 rifle and knew all the safety rules and how to use it! I thought maybe I must be behind or something, but six years old or something like that sure makes a lot more sense to me.
I think Sandy's daughter and Blueyedog's step grandson sound a lot like Ricky. Hopefully, I can teach him as well as you all have taught your children.

sumabich has an excellent point. Fortunately, Ricky's not in *publik* school yet and his teachers don't seem to be too extremely judgmental(?) (he started saying "[color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] and instead of being apalled, they thought it was pretty funny...didn't tell his so, though). Also, as far as the divorce, that's a good point, too. However, my ex is the one who insisted on having guns in the house when we first got married, plus I don't think he could handle full custody, even if he wanted it!

I guess I'll wait for the Eddie Eagle video and watch it with him. As I said, Eddie Eagle and Coinneach are much more interesting and credible that Mommy is! (BTW, Blueyedog, you are right about the 1000 yard stare, it would scare me, too! Fortunately, I have my own 6-inch glare that has been know to scare grown men when necessary! )

[Keiller TN]

I keep my handguns locked up at home unless I'm carrying one. I know this puts me at a disadvantage to the criminals, but it is a price I pay for not tempting my 10-yr.-old son with a gun. I trust him to not ever pick up a gun without my permission, but this is an example where I don't want there to be any opportunity for disaster. Kids are tempted more in this area than when I was young and guns were readily available around the home. We did not think of guns as something to use for retaliation against school enemies. I do live in a relatively safe area, so I don't feel the need to have my gun always handy. There other things that are ahead of a gun in defense. I try to have the house secured in a way that an intruder would have to make noise getting in. That gives me time. The criminal has the element of surprise on his side. Also remember to pray. On the subject of prayer, I think it is a good idea to pray that the campaigns of some politicians would be confounded and confused.

[TEXAS LAWMAN]

Suggest you purchase "Gun-Proofing Your Child", by Massad Ayoob (prolific gun rag writer, unpaid cop, owner/operator of Lethal Force Institute)--good ideas. I think he has an 800# for The Police Bookshelf in Concord, NH.

At age 3, my daughter, now a university grad, was allowed to handle my unloaded guns when I came in from the range. This satisfied her curiosity about "those things daddy spends so much time with." At age 7 or 8, we set up a range in the basement so she could shoot her BB rifle under supervision. The interest in firearms quickly faded, but she could still recite the safety rules. We "tested" her by leaving an unloaded gun in sight. She would swing a wide arc around the gun--absolutely every time. We reminded her to not tell others that mom&dad had guns in the house. Never had a problem with the neighborhood kids finding the guns nor with daughter finding one at the neighbors' houses.

Buy the book--it will be invaluable.

[Arrell]

It has already been stated by my fellows. Firearms should be a part of your normal every day routine. Take all mystery out of guns. Don't hide them away and forbid the kids to find and touch them. Allow the kids to handle dry guns. If they want to see the guns, take the time to get the guns out and show it to them, any time its convienent. This will show the kids that all they have to do is ask and mommy is more than happy to show the gun to them. They want to see the gun in action. I'm always looking for an oportunity for some range time. It's always a judgement call as to weather to leave a loaded gun semi-accessable. I choose to. My wife knows where these guns are, and so does my ten year old daughter, both can shoot. The guns are out of reach of my four and two year old. And I will reevaluate my storage methods when they get a little older, based on their actions, interest and other factors. Daddy always had at least one loaded gun accessable around the house. There were six of us yungins, never thought of touching one of his guns. Had my own guns at age twelve. Bought my first rifle at age twelve at K-Mart. Saved a summers earnings from a fruit/vegetable roadside stand. No check, no wait. When I was twelve I could grab my little Stevens/Savage single shot .22, and head for the hills by myself for a little target shooting, or squirell or bunny hunting. After chores of course. Mom would ask my brother, "Where's Bobby"..."Yonder hunting, Maam". "OK, thanks, honey". Never a big deal. You see we have a generation of non-gunners. Never been taught which end the ball comes out. Even people that have grown up around guns are not schooling their kids on their proper use. Of course when a childs only exposure to firearms, is what he sees on TV, well, we all know what happens then. They learn the evilness of inanimate objects, to blame that object for crimes it takes a human act of will to perpetrate. Well Cindy, hope i have helped in some way. My prayers ar with you.
Arrell