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Old March 17, 2002, 03:42 PM   #1
SIGarmed
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What constitutes a "private party transfer" in California?

I recently came across this statement on the CA DOJ website regarding the legality of private party transfers of handguns that are not on the SB 15 list.

Effective January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. Private party transfers, curio/relic handguns, certain single-action revolvers, and pawn/consignment returns are exempt from this requirement.


http://justice.hdcdojnet.state.ca.us...feguns_new.taf

What does California consider a private party sale? I know it still has to go through a FFL holder. Is it possible to do private party transfers across state lines? I think I've heard that it was legal before, but I'm not sure.
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Old March 17, 2002, 11:57 PM   #2
Elker_43
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Some info.

Although the following applies to C&R holders in California, it also has some important info concerning private party transfers.

http://www.empirearms.com/cal-ffl.htm

Special regulations for California C&R FFL's
Summary of California C&R (Class 03) FFL related law, updated January 13th, 2002.

Using your C&R Class 03 FFL you can buy from anyone and receive from out of state by common carrier, in conformity with federal law, any firearm that cannot be readily concealed on the person, i.e. long rifle, that is a federally defined C&R that is at least 50 years old (manufactured on or before 1951) excluding of course machine guns.

It MUST be more than 50 years old. CZ-52's and M-44's dated 1953 are NOT C&R in California.

True antiques (rifles & pistols manufactured before January 1st, 1899) are exempt because they are not considered firearms.

NO PISTOL or concealable firearm, regardless of C&R status can be ordered from out of state and shipped in, or sold within the state without going through a Class 01 Dealer FFL.

There is now a limit of 1 pistol per 30 day period even if ordered through a dealer.

Within California, non dealers, which includes private parties with or without a Class 03 (C&R) FFL license, can sell each other any rifle that cannot be readily concealed on the person that is a federally defined C&R that is more than 50 years old (except to minors, drug addicts and those with felony or certain misdemeanor criminal records).

ANY transfer by a Class 01 dealer FFL in California, even if it would be exempt if made between private parties, requires a DROS (Dealer Record of Sale), DROS fee ($20+), background check and 10 day wait. If you have a COE, the COE eliminates the wait, but not the DROS background check or its cost.

NEW! Commencing January 1, 2002, California law requires all firearms sold, transferred, or manufactured in California must include a firearm safety device approved by the Attorney General.

Any California resident can sell and ship a C&R long rifle to a Class 01 (dealer) or Class 03 (C&R) FFL who resides out of state, subject to the receivers state's laws and the usual federal laws regarding transport.

It is unclear whether a Class 03 C&R FFL or private party can sell and ship a C&R pistol to an out of state Class 03 C&R FFL. Should you wish to do this, you should call the DOJ and get their opinion before doing the transaction. So long as the transaction complies with federal firearms laws and the local laws of the receiving Class 03 C&R FFL, it should be ok, but there CAN be exceptions. You should make a determination of legality to your own satisfaction BEFORE attempting any transaction.

A federally defined C&R pistol, regardless of age, can be imported into CA if it is legally purchased out of state by a CA resident with a Class 03 C&R FFL and if physical possession of the piece is taken by the Californian Class 03 C&R FFL outside of CA. It can be imported by the CA Class 03 C&R FFL purchaser only - hand carry or UPS to yourself. It must be reported within 5 days to the DOJ on their special form and paying $20. Buying a C&R Makarov with your Class 03 C&R FFL in Las Vegas or Arizona and bringing it back is OK if you register it in 5 days.

A CA Class 01 dealer can sell and ship any C&R pistol or rifle to a Class 03 (C&R) FFL who resides out of state, subject to the receiving Class 03's state laws and the usual federal laws regarding transfer and transport. The transfer must be directly to the out of state address that appears on the FFL.

California law requires that a Curio & Relic firearm must be at least 50 years old to be exempt from the dealer transfer requirements.

The new "ASSAULT WEAPONS" laws include some C&R, depending on configuration. The DOJ has not issued a weapon specific list (and probably will not), so each semi-auto C&R must be evaluated against the statute. You must look at BOTH the statute and the regulations. Other than antiques, defined as manufactured prior to January 1, 1899, which are specifically exempt, ANY semi-auto C&R rifle or pistol is potentially an "assault weapon." An "assault weapon" can NOT be imported, even through a Class 01 (dealer) FFL, except under very restricted (LEO, etc) circumstances. Depending on configuration, "assault weapons" can include M1 carbines, Garands, Mas 49 and 49/56, FN-49, C96 Mauser Broomhandles, Yugoslavian 59/66 SKS's, etc. All semi-auto firearms are suspect; the law is configuration specific, and removal or addition of a single feature can make a firearm legal, or banned.

A ban on magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds went into effect January 1, 2000. Magazines (this includes MG links) holding more than 10 rounds can no longer be imported into California or transferred within the state. You can not even loan such a magazine except under strictly limited circumstances.

Under California law, the only thing a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) does for Class 03 (C&R) FFL holders is that it lets you skip the waiting period for C&R purchased in state from a dealer, and for now allows the purchase of more than one handgun (modern and C&R) per 30 days.

If you don't have a copy of the CA DOJ's "California Firearms Laws 2000" you should download it in PDF format from: http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/2000.pdf
It is not complete and may be misleading in some areas, but it is a good basic guide that will reference code sections for you, which you can then find posted at the DOJ site. You should bookmark the statute page for reference. There is NO substitute for actually reading and understanding the actual text of the statutes.



Here is the DOJ in California site with all of the regs:

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/dwcl/index.html

Here is the specific California regulation area:

12082. (a) A person shall complete any sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm through a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071 in accordance with this section in order to comply with subdivision (d) of Section 12072. The seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm shall deliver the firearm to the dealer who shall retain possession of that firearm. The dealer shall then deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, if it is not prohibited, in accordance with subdivision (c) of Section 12072. If the dealer cannot legally deliver the firearm to the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, the dealer shall forthwith, without waiting for the conclusion of the waiting period described in Sections 12071 and 12072, return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm. The dealer shall not return the firearm to the seller or transferor or the person loaning the firearm when to do so would constitute a violation of subdivision (a) of Section 12072. If the dealer cannot legally return the firearm to the transferor or seller or the person loaning the firearm, then the dealer shall forthwith deliver the firearm to the sheriff of the county or the chief of police or other head of a municipal police department of any city or city and county who shall then dispose of the firearm in the manner provided by Sections 12028 and 12032. The purchaser or transferee or person being loaned the firearm may be required by the dealer to pay a fee not to exceed ten dollars ($10) per firearm, plus the applicable fee that the Department of Justice may charge pursuant to Section 12076. Nothing in these provisions shall prevent a dealer from charging a smaller fee. The fee that the department may charge is the fee that would be applicable pursuant to Section 12076, if the dealer was selling, transferring, or delivering a firearm to a purchaser or transferee or person being loaned a firearm, without any other parties being involved in the transaction.
(b) The Attorney General shall adopt regulations under this section to do all of the following:
(1) Allow the seller or transferor of the person loaning the firearm, and the purchaser or transferee or the person being loaned the firearm, to complete a sale, loan, or transfer through a dealer, and to allow those persons and the dealer to comply with the requirements of this section and Sections 12071, 12072, 12076, and 12077 and to preserve the confidentiality of those records.
(2) Where a personal handgun importer is selling or transferring a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person to comply with clause (ii) of subparagraph (A) of paragraph (2) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072, to allow a personal handgun importer's ownership of the pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person being sold or transferred to be recorded in a manner that if the firearm is returned to that personal handgun importer because the sale or transfer cannot be completed, the Department of Justice will have sufficient information about that personal handgun importer so that a record of his or her ownership can be maintained in the registry provided by subdivision (c) of Section 11106.
(3) Ensure that the register or record of electronic or telephonic transfer shall state the name and address of the seller or transferor of the firearm or the person loaning the firearm and whether or not the person is a personal handgun importer in addition to any other information required by Section 12077.
(c) A violation of this section by a dealer is a misdemeanor.


Having seen the above, your question:

"Is it possible to do private party transfers across state lines? I think I've heard that it was legal before, but I'm not sure."

I think the answer is: Going across state lines private party, you must go through an FFL in the receiving state per Federal Regs. The penalties for felonies are pretty steep.
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Old March 18, 2002, 11:21 AM   #3
Bobshouse
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Join Date: September 29, 2000
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Received this in reply to a question I wrote to California Firearms Division. Hopefully this should answer your question.


Dear Mr. ,

Your request for information has been received and reviewed. The only way to legally transfer ownership of a handgun that is not listed on the DOJ's Certified Safe Handgun Roster is to conduct a private party transfer through a federally licensed firearms dealer (FFL) in California. Private party transfer, defined as two California residents, with valid California Driver's Licenses/ID's, both physically presenting themselves before the same FFL on the same day, to conduct the transfer.

If you have any further questions or concerns please feel
free to contact our office at (916) 227-3703.

Sincerely,

Nate Barrell, Analyst
Firearms Division


So in a nutshell, if you want to buy a firearm that is ON the approved list, you can have it shipped to a FFL in California. If the firearm IS NOT on the approved list, it can only be purchased by a private party transfer where both parties must appear in person with approved California ID's...that means no out of state transfers allowed on non-approved firearms.

Bob
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Old March 18, 2002, 12:24 PM   #4
Ceol Mhor
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I think I'm going to hurl. :barf:
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