(Canada) Drug gang-war body count up to 3

The Walrus · November 24, 2002, 05:09 PM

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/story.asp?id={E930CF61-05FE-475F-8CB0-ADFC8433B896}

Drug-gang war claims three

Greg Middleton
The Province

Sunday, November 24, 2002
Dragon Dung Quoc Tran was found dead in a Langley ditch last Sunday.

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The body count climbed by three last week in the war among B.C. drug gangsters.

Friday, a badly decayed body found in Mission was identified as 24-year-old Heera "Harry" Singh Bahia of Surrey.

Bahia's body was found Nov. 16.

"He was reported missing in August," said Mission RCMP Staff-Sgt. Jack Robinson. "It's a definite homicide investigation."

In a second identification, a body found in a ditch in Langley last Sunday has been determined to be that of Vancouver resident Dung Quoc Tran -- a teen gangster known as Dragon.

"He was a significant player," said Insp. Axel Houbrender, head of the Vancouver police criminal intelligence section.

And on Tuesday, 21-year-old Davinder Singh Gharu was shot to death outside his New Westminster home.

Bahia was a close friend of Robbie Soomel, who is now in custody awaiting trial in the gangland murder of Gurpreet Singh Sohi two years ago.

Bahia had been charged in the past with assault, assault with a weapon and theft. All charges were later dropped.

Bahia grew up in the home of Sucha Singh Bahia, a Sikh fundamentalist involved with the militant Sikh Youth Federation that was once headed locally by accused drug dealer Ron Dosanjh.

Dosanjh has since been murdered.

Harry Bahia grew up with Sucha Singh Bahia's son, Ranjit "Doc" Bahia, who was charged with the 1999 murder of Peter Grewal.

The charges were later dropped.

Grewal was the nephew of Michael Singh Brar, 23, the bodyguard for Ron Dosanjh. Brar has also been murdered.

Doc Bahia was charged last month in Vancouver with trafficking cocaine and heroin.

Police are not saying how Bahia or Tran were killed.

Eighteen-year-old Tran was tied up before he was executed in an obvious gangland slaying.

Langley RCMP are now trying to find anyone who may have been in the area of 208 Street and Allard Crescent between Saturday Nov. 16 and Sunday Nov. 17 at 9 a.m., when Tran's body was found by a man out walking his dog. Police say they know where Tran was Saturday afternoon.

"Mr. Tran is known to have been driving his vehicle throughout the Lower Mainland with friends," said Langley RCMP spokesman Cpl. Dale Carr.

"They eventually ended up at a Surrey restaurant at approximately 6 p.m."

Carr said the young men ate at the Oriental Buffet Restaurant and Tran left in his flashy, navy blue 1999 Mercedes 430 coupe.

Anyone with information can call the Langley RCMP tip line at 604-532-3398.

[email protected]
© Copyright 2002 The Province

yankytrash · November 24, 2002, 06:28 PM

Sweet! If y'all catch these guys, could ya send'm down here to kill off some of our crackheads and gangbangers too?

nemesis · November 24, 2002, 10:32 PM

The body count is up to 14 over the last month or so. I read it in another article this morning. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys. Hey, maybe I'll sponsor the ammo.

The only question I have is "how can this be"? Firearms are very tightly controlled in Canada and I suspect this is against the law. Could it possibly be that gun control doesn't work? Don't tell the Canadians. Where is their outcry?

Fred Hansen · November 25, 2002, 12:53 AM

Here's hoping they go at each other more often and with greater ferocity.

Seeker · November 25, 2002, 02:18 AM

Sihks v. Vietnamees for control of turf? Maybe reprisals?

SDC · November 25, 2002, 01:01 PM

In BC, it's the Vietnamese, Sikhs, and Russians killing each other off over the drug trade, and in Toronto, it's the Jamaicans; the more things change, the more they stay the same.

wolfman97 · November 25, 2002, 01:10 PM

Does anyone remember alcohol prohibition?

A friend of mine wrote a book on the drug trade. One of the things he did was go to Chicago and review a map of the drug gang territories made up by the police. He then compared it with a similar map made during the 1920s during alcohol prohibition. He said the only significant change was the name of the gangs.

Homicides dropped dramatically when Prohibition was ended.

LawDog · November 25, 2002, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Homicides dropped dramatically when Prohibition was ended.

Define 'dramatically'.

LawDog

wolfman97 · November 25, 2002, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Define 'dramatically'.

See the attached chart of homicide rates in the 20th century. You will note the sharp rise in the homicide rate at the beginning of Prohibition and the sharp decline at the end.

LawDog · November 25, 2002, 05:34 PM

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/hmrt.htm

What sharp decline at the end?

1917 6.9
1918 6.5
1919 7.2
Prohibition begins
1920 6.8
1921 8.1
1922 8.0
1923 7.8
1924 8.1
1925 8.3
1926 8.4
1927 8.4
1928 8.6
1929 8.4
1930 8.8
1931 9.2
1932 9.0
1933 9.7
Prohibition ended
1934 9.5
1935 8.3
1936 8.0
1937 7.6
1938 6.8
1939 6.4
1940 6.3

You mean the 1950's?

LawDog

wolfman97 · November 25, 2002, 05:38 PM

Let's see, the homicide rates during Prohibition are all up around 9, quite different than the rest of the pattern. What were you unclear about?

LawDog · November 25, 2002, 06:14 PM

You alluded that "homicides dropped dramatically when Prohibition ended". You further opined that there was a "sharp decline" in homicides at the end of Prohibition.

I don't see any drop that I would characterize as 'dramatic'. Not until the 1950's.

So, I would like to see your figures which lead you to posit such a 'dramatic drop' or 'sharp decline'.

LawDog

punjabi0G · August 3, 2007, 12:10 AM

being in gangs is a real struggle. i got out so basically i got lucky. i hope kids understand why their parents tell them not 2 hang out with these types of kids. my parents told me, but i was stupid and wanted 2 get in the cocaine business. i was with bindy johal for quite a while, but i wasn't very close with the gang. i was more like and outsider. until i met bindy my self. i remeber that day properly. i was ****tin my pants

anyways, as things went on i wasn't liking the business so i wanted out. wut i got was bullets in my chest. so after that, they never bothered me again. so kids now a days are more concerned with trying illegal stuff becuz they watch it on tv or hear it in music. its not like im saying that u shudnt listen 2 that type of music. im saying if u no its wrong, dont follow it. now i live a happy life style with a 1 child and a beautiful wife. i have my own business and its going well. so basically i got really lucky.

punjabi0G · August 3, 2007, 12:14 AM

seeker they arent sikhs. they are punjabi. sikhs r the ones that follow the sikh religion. most of these gangsters consider them selves "jatts" reffered 2 as punjabi farmers.

Manedwolf · August 3, 2007, 12:27 AM

AFAIK, the Russian gangs operating in Canada are really, really ruthless sorts. Real coldblooded types who will eliminate anyone who's competition for their drug trade.

Sounds like it's getting more...interesting up there.

Nytelyte · August 3, 2007, 06:53 AM

"Dragon Dung"

Don H · August 3, 2007, 02:00 PM

Averages for the Prohibition years given:

Before Prohibition: 6.9

During Prohibition: 7.2

After Prohibition: 7.5

divemedic · August 3, 2007, 02:45 PM

The most dramatic rise I see appears to have started with GCA68

FirstFreedom · August 3, 2007, 08:34 PM

Lawdog:

Quote:

11-25-2002

punjabi0G:

Quote:

Today

Why?

Yellowfin · August 4, 2007, 02:29 AM

I wonder if the Russian mob will have one of their kids win the US presidency. It's been about four decades since we've had one.

Justme · August 4, 2007, 06:19 AM

My grandmother swears that the guys making meth and growing pot in appalacia are from the same families that made moonshine for decades. The names are the same, it's only the product that has changed.

It doesn't take that much imagination to believe that the profit to be made in the drug trade is a major part of the reason that people get so worked up about their territory. What's harder for most people to understand is that supply and demand works for the drug market as well as any other. Bringing law enforcement pressure on the supply side only drives prices up, it does nothing to address demand.

There is an argument to be made that if the govt spent a little more money on mental health clinics they might not need to spend quite as much on jails. But people like putting "bad guys" in jail and hate paying for anyone elses healthcare.

**Bud Helms** · August 4, 2007, 10:49 AM

There was a time on TFL, when the subject matter permitted in General Discussion was, shall we say, less strict. Those days are gone.

This is not firearms related.

Closed. Off topic.

November 24, 2002, 05:09 PM	#1
The Walrus Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2001 Location: North of Seattle, WA Posts: 189	(Canada) Drug gang-war body count up to 3 http://www.canada.com/vancouver/story.asp?id={E930CF61-05FE-475F-8CB0-ADFC8433B896} Drug-gang war claims three Greg Middleton The Province Sunday, November 24, 2002 Dragon Dung Quoc Tran was found dead in a Langley ditch last Sunday. ADVERTISEMENT [Ad] The body count climbed by three last week in the war among B.C. drug gangsters. Friday, a badly decayed body found in Mission was identified as 24-year-old Heera "Harry" Singh Bahia of Surrey. Bahia's body was found Nov. 16. "He was reported missing in August," said Mission RCMP Staff-Sgt. Jack Robinson. "It's a definite homicide investigation." In a second identification, a body found in a ditch in Langley last Sunday has been determined to be that of Vancouver resident Dung Quoc Tran -- a teen gangster known as Dragon. "He was a significant player," said Insp. Axel Houbrender, head of the Vancouver police criminal intelligence section. And on Tuesday, 21-year-old Davinder Singh Gharu was shot to death outside his New Westminster home. Bahia was a close friend of Robbie Soomel, who is now in custody awaiting trial in the gangland murder of Gurpreet Singh Sohi two years ago. Bahia had been charged in the past with assault, assault with a weapon and theft. All charges were later dropped. Bahia grew up in the home of Sucha Singh Bahia, a Sikh fundamentalist involved with the militant Sikh Youth Federation that was once headed locally by accused drug dealer Ron Dosanjh. Dosanjh has since been murdered. Harry Bahia grew up with Sucha Singh Bahia's son, Ranjit "Doc" Bahia, who was charged with the 1999 murder of Peter Grewal. The charges were later dropped. Grewal was the nephew of Michael Singh Brar, 23, the bodyguard for Ron Dosanjh. Brar has also been murdered. Doc Bahia was charged last month in Vancouver with trafficking cocaine and heroin. Police are not saying how Bahia or Tran were killed. Eighteen-year-old Tran was tied up before he was executed in an obvious gangland slaying. Langley RCMP are now trying to find anyone who may have been in the area of 208 Street and Allard Crescent between Saturday Nov. 16 and Sunday Nov. 17 at 9 a.m., when Tran's body was found by a man out walking his dog. Police say they know where Tran was Saturday afternoon. "Mr. Tran is known to have been driving his vehicle throughout the Lower Mainland with friends," said Langley RCMP spokesman Cpl. Dale Carr. "They eventually ended up at a Surrey restaurant at approximately 6 p.m." Carr said the young men ate at the Oriental Buffet Restaurant and Tran left in his flashy, navy blue 1999 Mercedes 430 coupe. Anyone with information can call the Langley RCMP tip line at 604-532-3398. [email protected] © Copyright 2002 The Province __________________ MOLON LABE!

November 24, 2002, 06:28 PM	#2
yankytrash Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Farnham, Va Posts: 2,183	Sweet! If y'all catch these guys, could ya send'm down here to kill off some of our crackheads and gangbangers too? __________________ Right turn, Clyde.

November 25, 2002, 12:53 AM	#4
Fred Hansen Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: The middle of WWIII Posts: 3,335	Here's hoping they go at each other more often and with greater ferocity. __________________ "This started out as a documentary on gun violence in America, but the largest mass murder in our history was just committed -- without the use of a single gun! Not a single bullet fired! No bomb was set off, no missile was fired, no weapon (i.e., a device that was solely and specifically manufactured to kill humans) was used. A boxcutter! -- I can't stop thinking about this. A thousand gun control laws would not have prevented this massacre. What am I doing?" Michael Moore

November 25, 2002, 02:18 AM	#5
Seeker Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2001 Location: Lacomb, Oregon Posts: 1,393	Sihks v. Vietnamees for control of turf? Maybe reprisals? __________________ Molon Labe Seeker "The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson Don't Tread On Me! "Equal and exact justice to all men, of whatever state or persuasion, religious or political; peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none" -- Thomas Jefferson In order to rally people, governments need enemies. They want us to be afraid, to hate, so we will rally behind them. And if they do not have a real enemy, they will invent one in order to mobilize us. -Thich Nhat Hanh

November 25, 2002, 01:01 PM	#6
SDC Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2001 Location: People's Republic of Kanada Posts: 1,652	In BC, it's the Vietnamese, Sikhs, and Russians killing each other off over the drug trade, and in Toronto, it's the Jamaicans; the more things change, the more they stay the same. __________________ Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.

November 24, 2002, 10:32 PM	#3
nemesis Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2002 Location: Texas, on the border Posts: 846	The body count is up to 14 over the last month or so. I read it in another article this morning. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of guys. Hey, maybe I'll sponsor the ammo. The only question I have is "how can this be"? Firearms are very tightly controlled in Canada and I suspect this is against the law. Could it possibly be that gun control doesn't work? Don't tell the Canadians. Where is their outcry?

November 25, 2002, 01:10 PM	#7
wolfman97 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2002 Posts: 421	Does anyone remember alcohol prohibition? A friend of mine wrote a book on the drug trade. One of the things he did was go to Chicago and review a map of the drug gang territories made up by the police. He then compared it with a similar map made during the 1920s during alcohol prohibition. He said the only significant change was the name of the gangs. Homicides dropped dramatically when Prohibition was ended.

November 25, 2002, 05:34 PM	#10
LawDog Staff Emeritus Join Date: September 15, 1999 Location: Where am I going? Why am I in this handbasket? Posts: 4,194	http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/hmrt.htm What sharp decline at the end? 1917 6.9 1918 6.5 1919 7.2 Prohibition begins 1920 6.8 1921 8.1 1922 8.0 1923 7.8 1924 8.1 1925 8.3 1926 8.4 1927 8.4 1928 8.6 1929 8.4 1930 8.8 1931 9.2 1932 9.0 1933 9.7 Prohibition ended 1934 9.5 1935 8.3 1936 8.0 1937 7.6 1938 6.8 1939 6.4 1940 6.3 You mean the 1950's? LawDog __________________ "The Father wove the skein of your life a long time ago. Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer." --The 13th Warrior Bona na Croin The LawDog Files

November 25, 2002, 05:38 PM	#11
wolfman97 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2002 Posts: 421	Let's see, the homicide rates during Prohibition are all up around 9, quite different than the rest of the pattern. What were you unclear about?

November 25, 2002, 06:14 PM	#12
LawDog Staff Emeritus Join Date: September 15, 1999 Location: Where am I going? Why am I in this handbasket? Posts: 4,194	You alluded that "homicides dropped dramatically when Prohibition ended". You further opined that there was a "sharp decline" in homicides at the end of Prohibition. I don't see any drop that I would characterize as 'dramatic'. Not until the 1950's. So, I would like to see your figures which lead you to posit such a 'dramatic drop' or 'sharp decline'. LawDog __________________ "The Father wove the skein of your life a long time ago. Go and hide in a hole if you wish, but you won't live one instant longer." --The 13th Warrior Bona na Croin The LawDog Files

August 3, 2007, 12:10 AM	#13
punjabi0G Junior Member Join Date: August 2, 2007 Posts: 2	being in gangs is a real struggle. i got out so basically i got lucky. i hope kids understand why their parents tell them not 2 hang out with these types of kids. my parents told me, but i was stupid and wanted 2 get in the cocaine business. i was with bindy johal for quite a while, but i wasn't very close with the gang. i was more like and outsider. until i met bindy my self. i remeber that day properly. i was ****tin my pants anyways, as things went on i wasn't liking the business so i wanted out. wut i got was bullets in my chest. so after that, they never bothered me again. so kids now a days are more concerned with trying illegal stuff becuz they watch it on tv or hear it in music. its not like im saying that u shudnt listen 2 that type of music. im saying if u no its wrong, dont follow it. now i live a happy life style with a 1 child and a beautiful wife. i have my own business and its going well. so basically i got really lucky.

August 3, 2007, 12:14 AM	#14
punjabi0G Junior Member Join Date: August 2, 2007 Posts: 2	seeker they arent sikhs. they are punjabi. sikhs r the ones that follow the sikh religion. most of these gangsters consider them selves "jatts" reffered 2 as punjabi farmers.

August 3, 2007, 12:27 AM	#15
Manedwolf Junior member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Posts: 3,266	AFAIK, the Russian gangs operating in Canada are really, really ruthless sorts. Real coldblooded types who will eliminate anyone who's competition for their drug trade. Sounds like it's getting more...interesting up there.

August 3, 2007, 06:53 AM	#16
Nytelyte Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 144	"Dragon Dung"

August 3, 2007, 02:00 PM	#17
Don H Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2000 Location: SLC,Utah Posts: 2,704	Averages for the Prohibition years given: Before Prohibition: 6.9 During Prohibition: 7.2 After Prohibition: 7.5

August 3, 2007, 02:45 PM	#18
divemedic Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2006 Posts: 1,310	The most dramatic rise I see appears to have started with GCA68

August 4, 2007, 02:29 AM	#20
Yellowfin Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2007 Location: Lancaster Co, PA Posts: 2,311	I wonder if the Russian mob will have one of their kids win the US presidency. It's been about four decades since we've had one.

August 4, 2007, 06:19 AM	#21
Justme Junior member Join Date: June 6, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,066	My grandmother swears that the guys making meth and growing pot in appalacia are from the same families that made moonshine for decades. The names are the same, it's only the product that has changed. It doesn't take that much imagination to believe that the profit to be made in the drug trade is a major part of the reason that people get so worked up about their territory. What's harder for most people to understand is that supply and demand works for the drug market as well as any other. Bringing law enforcement pressure on the supply side only drives prices up, it does nothing to address demand. There is an argument to be made that if the govt spent a little more money on mental health clinics they might not need to spend quite as much on jails. But people like putting "bad guys" in jail and hate paying for anyone elses healthcare.

August 4, 2007, 10:49 AM	#22
Bud Helms Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 1999 Location: Middle Georgia, USA Posts: 13,198	There was a time on TFL, when the subject matter permitted in General Discussion was, shall we say, less strict. Those days are gone. This is not firearms related. Closed. Off topic.