November 28, 2004, 08:14 PM | #1 |
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Tokarev vs. Makarov
Ok, I have read tons on the Russian via Bulgaria Makarov's.
Today I was at the range and saw a Tokarev. It was Russian made, very accurate. The guy who owned it let me hold it. Nice balance. He said it was a pain to field strip...you had to push the recoil spring in, put pins in and secure the pins with a split ring ("c" clip)...crappy design. Anyway...how do the Makarov's compare to the Tokarev's...pros and cons...from field stripping, cleaning, accuracy, parts availability, etc.? One other thing, my new friend at the range said that the East German pitols had the best fit and finish...but the ugly finish Russian guns were very accurate. Thanks, Keko |
November 29, 2004, 01:13 PM | #2 |
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Comparing a Tokarev to a Makarov is kinda hard. The Tok is a larger, locked breech handgun firing a fairly intense bottlelenecked cartridge.
The Mak, on the other hand, is a pretty ordinary blowback operated pistol, albeit one firing a stout blowback 9x18 cartridge. It is certainly NOT of the power level of the Tok. The Mak is easier to field strip, and contains less parts. (It strips like a Walther PPK. It's also shorter, lighter, and features a double action trigger mechanism. The Tok has not been in production or general issue use in any major (former) Combloc military forces (except China) for some time now. The Mak is still widely issued. If you are looking to buy one of these two pistols, one must consider the planned use. For "plinking", the Tok may be a bit more practical, but at the price of higher muzzle blast and recoil. |
November 30, 2004, 12:00 AM | #3 |
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The Tokarev is a fine weapon. The TT-33 Tokarev was essentially an unlicensed adaptation of a Browning design, modified to fire a very high intensity round. One of the most notable developments that the tokarev brought to the table yet nobody seems to appriciate is a completely self contained fire control group that is easily removeable from the pistol for repair or replacement. Another interesting fact is that the Tokarev has a set of intergral feed lips built into the frame so that the gun doesn't need to rely on the flimsy stamped ones on the magazine (always a weak point in autoloaders) The 7.62x25 cartrige which the tokarev is chambered in is available in a variety of power levels. Standard issue russian ammo was an 88 Grain bullet at aroun 1350fps. Submachine gun ammo intended for the PPSH-41 and its cousins push 88 grain pills up to 1650fps. Some feel that this ammo is only appropriate in CZ-52 pistols, but independant testing from at least one source has claimed the tokarev to be a stronger design then the CZ and therfore able to handle the cartrige. In my Norinco model however best accuracy comes from bullets made by S&B which is I beleive an 88 grain bullet at 1500 fps. For defensive use, one of the frangible companies, magsafe I beleive, makes a 7.62x25 defensive load which consists of a 55 grain pre-fragmented bullet at 2100 fps. The speed and energy associated with this round are comperable to the 224BOZ cartrige that I keep reading about, meaning it is no slouch to be sure. Just to warn you, the 7.62x25 is very penitrative. It can go through body armor that will stop a .357 magnum, and it can put large dents in steel targets or the metal backstops of some indoor ranges. This is one handgun cartrige where it is Especially important to know what is behind your target. 9mm conversion barrels are available as are special magazines with intergral spacers to shoot the round. Tokarevs are low recoil guns but very loud. They don't like to be limp wristed but otherwise they are extremely reliable. Tokarevs are far more accurate then you would think considering their loose tolerances, I have an old gunrag with a Tokarev review where the author shot a 7" group at 100 yards. Field stripping is not a pain, it is exceedingly easy to do. 1-eject magazine.2-rack slide to cock hammer and check chamber,3-use flat base of magazine to push spring steel clip off of takedown pin first by pushing it from its edge, then by flipping the mag to the rounded side and pushing the other end of the clip to slip it off of the pin.4-remove pin/slide release.5-slide the slide toward the front taking care to keep the recoil spring in hand (it will fly off if you don't hold it).6-remove recoil spring carefully.7-rotate bushing and remove toward front.8-remove barrel from front of slide.9-remove fire control group from frame.10-question the sanity of your gun dealer in saying this was difficult. When you reassemble the gun, you don't try to push the spring back in the front and put the bushing back, put the barrel in, put the bushing on, then push the recoil spring in from underneith. Its easy as pie as long as you don't let the spring pop out, keep everything under control and its a snap. I can field strip and reassemble a tokarev in about 40 seconds, its that easy.
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November 30, 2004, 09:00 AM | #4 |
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The Bottom line is this,Buy American!
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November 30, 2004, 10:25 PM | #5 |
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And what pay more for less? Patriotism aside, find me the Smith & Wesson auto that is the equal of a makarov in price, accuracy and reliability. Find me an American autoloading rifle as rugged and reliable as the AKM... We Americans may make pretty guns, we may make accurate guns but the Russians and other commie nations make guns that are combat accurate, that work nearly one-hundred-percent of the time AND are inexpensive.
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November 30, 2004, 11:38 PM | #6 |
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I've never shot a TT-33, but as a CZ-52 owner I can vouch for the capability and range-time-fun of the 7.62x25 cartridge.
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December 1, 2004, 12:37 AM | #7 |
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In my collection of Cold War Eastern Bloc guns I have a Yugoslavian Zastava Tok in 9mm (factory) this is an early commie one with no added safety and a commie star on the grip , it has a slightly longer grip and uses a 9 round mag. I had a Russian 7.63 Tok but I don't like the cartridge personally. My 9mm Tok is pretty accurate but best I can do at 25yards is 5" (with UZI brown tip)as the trigger and sights are crude. . It strips REAL easy IMHO. While not a Makarov I have a Hungarian FEG RK-59 in 9x18 which I believe is the smallest and lightest pistol ever made in that caliber. Mine was owned by a Hungarian Secret Police Capt. who defected. I display the Yugo with a Yugo AK underfolder and the Hunky with a AM63 FEG AK!
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December 4, 2004, 05:54 PM | #8 |
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Magsafe TOK Defenders
I tried these rounds and, while I like them, every one I have purchased needed to be crimped before they would chamber properly. Magsafe nickle-plates their brass and (at least in the CZ 52 orig. barrel and Fed.Arms replacement) will not completly chamber unless the end of the case is either filed or crimped. I emailed Magsafe after 1st purchase and again 6 months later w/o getting a reply so I guess it's 'buyer beware' with them.
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