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Old April 3, 2005, 12:27 AM   #1
fastforty
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Brazen farm theft interrupted, shots fired

So I’m at home Saturday afternoon with wife & two daughters, 5 & 10 years old. A pickup slows down out front of our long skinny acre (skinny side of property is streetfront). It drives past our open front door (aint Kalifornia weather grand?), turns up our long driveway driving past 3 vehicles parked along the driveway, kids playing in the yard & our wide open side door and continues to the back of our property where our barn is. When it didn’t complete the circular drive around the perimeter of our property, I went out to see [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]. Upon approaching the barn, I hear the truck going back & forth, then doors open. As I round the corner of the barn, I see the truck backed up to my log splitter & two guys frantically trying to hook it up. I approached from the cover of their vehicle with weapon presented & gave them the old “STOP RIGHT THERE!”. They did indeed stop, just about long enough to crap their pants & start getting nervous. I identified the guy on my side of the trailer hitch as the most potential threat and ordered him “DOWN!” at gunpoint. He started to comply when the guy on the other side dove into the cab of the truck. Whether he was going for a weapon or a getaway I wasn’t sure, but turned my attention to him ordering him to stop whatever he was doing. He did not stop, and fearing I was about to watch my equipment roll out before my eyes, I fired first apon the rear, and then the front passenger tires (wouldn’t hurt to let the guy know that I did indeed have a functioning firearm in my hands in case he was going for a weapon). Both the 9mm Corbon & Powerball rounds performed very well on the tires, instantly releasing most of the air as they passed through the opposite side of each tire (as evidenced by the clouds of dust that sprang up from underneath the truck). Well, if the guys hadn’t passed feces when they first saw the gun, they certainly did now. The driver took footbail, with his accomplist quickly following suit. They took off running across a wide open plowed field. The truck was still running so I reached in to grab the keys before I returned to the house to call it in. Surprise, surprise, no keys, punched ignition. I popped the hood open & ripped a handful of wires so they wouldn’t be able to double back & escape with the truck (and my log splitter) while I went to call the authorities. I was on the phone with 911 and the guys were still in sight, about to disappear into the grove of fruit trees ¼ mile away. Within 3-4 minutes, sheriff’s cars were rolling up and set up a perimeter for one mile around. The CHP helicopter showed up shortly thereafter. Farm theft is a big thing around here, and most of the reports of it come in days if not weeks or months cold. Law enforcement couldn’t have been on top of this any faster then if they had been starving flies released at a dairy. They searched diligently for 2-3 hours but unfortunately, the thieves escaped the perimeter. They spent another couple of hours dusting the truck & stolen equipment that it contained (air compressor, gasoline farm pump, weedeater, powerblower, etc) for fingerprints. Sad that the thieves got away, but good that they didn’t do anything that would have gotten anyone hurt or killed. The truck’s owner was contacted, a woman that lives about 7 miles from here. She needs her truck to get to work, and will have it back Monday morning (the thieves had already taken her good tires off of the truck, the ones on it were threadbare). The truck was stolen out of her driveway on the morning of the 31st, and recovered the afternoon of the 2nd. This is the 4th time that I have drawn a weapon on a trespasser/thief in the 17 years that I have lived at this location. Each time when I reported the incidences, LEO just smirked when I told him that I stuck my gun in someone’s face. Most of the crimes that are reported here are so cold by that time that nothing can be done except to take a report & the file report away forever. I guess it’s amusing when a thief gets caught red handed & sees his life flash before his eyes.

Crime Scene
Flat tires
Bullet hole
Weapons in truck
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Old April 3, 2005, 12:34 AM   #2
Edward429451
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Good Show!

Watch your six and inform neighbors in case they decide to come back soon. If they're stupid enough to drive in and do this when you're all at home, they'd be stupid enough to return in spite.

Wow.
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Old April 3, 2005, 12:36 AM   #3
PinnedAndRecessed
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I'm genuinely sorry you have to deal with such things. Take care and watch your tail, cowboy.
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Old April 3, 2005, 12:54 AM   #4
Sir William
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What were you armed with? I missed it. Farm theft has gone down locally since a deputy shot and killed one thief during a pursuit. Ammonia is still being stolen for meth though. Meth cooks gassed a deputy about a year ago. The Sheriff started taking it more serious since then.
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Old April 3, 2005, 12:59 AM   #5
michael t
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These Bubba's really aren't to bright. But I would keep close watch and wouldn't leave home unguarded for a while. They dumb enough to try in daylight ,might be even braver at night. Hope not but watch yourself.
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Old April 3, 2005, 02:25 AM   #6
BillCA
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FastForty,

Good show! Glad that this incident turned out in your favor. Now notify the neighbors -- which you've undoubtedly done -- and make sure your kids are escorted to school or bus both ways and someone is home for them when they arrive, at least for the next 2 weeks.

I'm amazed that they just drove onto your property like it was nothing at all and tried to steal large equipment like that.

Observations:
* There were 4 visible weapons in the front seat of that truck.
* You used a good command "Stop Right There!" is direct and authoritative. I also like "DON"T MOVE" for the same reason.
* Once you have their attention, "Hands in the air!" gets their hands up where you can see them (and any weapons).
* Very good restraint in shooting tires when #2 tried to enter the truck. At that point you should also have been moving in case he was after a gun.
* If these were Hispanics, learn your command phrases in Spanish too.
* Fleeing across a large open field (as depicted in photos) can sometimes be stopped by yelling "Do you want to die?" as it gives them something to think about.
* [Humor] If you'd banged off three more shots into the ground while they were fleeing no doubt they could be caught at a local laundromat washing their undies!

If you encounter someone like this again, get their hands visible immediately. You want their arms stretched over their heads (not half lifted in a "surrender" position). This puts their hands away from their bodies and where you can see what's in them. It also lifts any jacket away from the waistline. Order them to drop anything in their hands. The ground will hold it until its retreived later. If you see a weapon, tell the bearer if he reaches for it, he will be shot - repeatedly.

With them in 'hands up' position, tell them "Don't Move" again. Quickly tell them "Do exactly what I tell you to do and don't move until I tell you to 'Do It NOW!" Then the next order of business is to get them onto the ground, face down, arms outstretched, palms up and feet crossed at the ankles. Keep them looking away from you too.

After thought:
It's a good thing the kids didn't come into the scene to see what was happening! Teach your kids that if they hear gunfire in a situation like that (outside by the barn) to get inside the house and notify an adult. If you have a nearby trusted neighbor they can go there too, to get help on the way.
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Old April 3, 2005, 05:31 AM   #7
urban assault
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You defended your property with appropriate force. I commend you for having the stones to do this, and not just sit back and let the beasts lower your quality of life. Please continue to be vigilant and safe. Good luck to you and yours...


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Old April 3, 2005, 05:38 AM   #8
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I kick myself for one reason when I'm out and about on my property such as it is. I don't usually carry my cordless phone. Cell phone is dead here. In your case if they'd have complied what would you have done. You say you went back to the house to call. Just food for thought and a timely reminder for myself.
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Old April 3, 2005, 08:01 AM   #9
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Well done!
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Old April 3, 2005, 08:15 AM   #10
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WELL DONE (and I hope your local authorities retain their reasonable approach, so you don't become the "criminal" -- as you might in some Kalifornia jurisdictions).
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Old April 3, 2005, 08:45 AM   #11
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fastforty, you did do well, as evidenced by the fact that you won, so at least you did well for your particular situation. With that said, you could have done better. From what you described, you put yourself into unnecessary danger. You meanted you approached the bandits from cover. So that tells me that you were exposed, not a good thing given that you had other options in your non-life threatening situation.

Next, you experienced something very real that does happen to police and citizens alike when they are alone and facing multiple bad guys. You discovered that you can't necessarily control multiple bad guys at the same time and that as a result they managed to go in two different directions. Whomever you were not covering was able to move. So you ordered one guy down and the other went to the cab of the truck. When you started shooting tires, the both bailed. You were unable to do anything to stop their foot egress.

You said that you saw the second bad guy got to the cab of the truck, thinking he was going for a weapon. Maybe so, maybe not. He might have just been trying to use the truck for a get away. You noted that you ordered him to stop what he was doing and he didn't stop. And here I think you made a hugely critical error. You took your eyes off the bad guy inside the cab of the truck, not knowing whether he was getting a weapon or not or what type of weapon he as going to get. You took your attention off of him in order to shoot the tires to preclude his escape in the vehicle. No doubt that at this time, you didn't have your eyes on the first bad guy either. So you were out in the open, shooting tires, with one bad guy somewhere on the ground in your immediate vicinity and one inside of the truck possible going for a weapon, that could easily have been a gun. You had know way of knowing what weapons were or were not available. The guy on the ground potentially could have produced a gun at that time, or maybe the guy in the truck. So you were faced with a split suspect control issue, out in the open, and facing an unknown set of weapons. This could have gone south for you very quickly.

Also note that you only spotted 2 bad guys. I don't doubt that there were only two, but from what you described, you had no way of knowing if there was a 3rd or 4th that would have been obstructed from your via if they had gone in or around the barn. The potential extra bad guys might have been searching for more goodies when they heard your voice commands. They would have been in a tactically great situation of being hidden and completely unknown to exist by you...and you were not behind cover.

Is that your white house in the back left of the picture of the flat tires? Just how far away were your kids when you started shooting. I don't think you would have hit your kids and I am not meaning to imply that, but if they were in the immediate vicinity, then they were in danger by the potential actions of the bad guys. In trying to flee in the truck, had it come to pass, your kids would have been in danger from the truck. He passed by your kids on the way in and undoubtedly would have passed by or over them on the way out if they were in his way.

I liked the photograph of the 'weapons.' I think you were being overly dramatic. Bill spots 4 potential weapons. I see one actual weapon and then just a bunch of typical farm truck accessories. If we wanted to count potential weapons, everything there in the seat except maybe the cigarettes, plastic bag, and toilet paper roll could all be used as weapons, but they weren't. They were simply tools. With the exception of the garbage, cigs, beer, and monkey wrench, I have all those in my vehicle and some extra.

Obviously, you did well enough for your situation as you did come out just fine, but then again, you weren't coming up against very bright or prepared bandits. From the sounds of things, all parties involved spent too much time out in the open and with less than adequate situational awareness and control.
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Old April 3, 2005, 10:46 AM   #12
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Those guys must have really been in a bad way, trying to steal that logsplitter.

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Old April 3, 2005, 11:06 AM   #13
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Out-fu**ing-Standing!

Good for you! We need more citizens to take an active stand against scumbags like that.
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Old April 3, 2005, 11:29 AM   #14
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Warning shots are not a good.... Lol - obviously these were not warning shots, but aimed fire designed to disable and detain the vehicle in a venue where the loose lead was not dangerous to bystanders. They were not intended for or aimed at any person - and your good marksmanship (no misses) made that patently obvious.

Nicely done.
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Old April 3, 2005, 03:05 PM   #15
fastforty
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Thanks for all the responses.

Yes, a situation like this is never "safe", but my years of dilligent training kept me, my family, and the thieves as safe as we could be, save hiding in the house and hoping that my elderly mother would remain safe while not in my sight (she was alone in the mobile home pictured, our house is farther toward the street in a second fenced area). I had my back/left side to our dwellings when I confronted the guys, with plowed field 270 degrees around me. At the time that they were together it wasn't too hard to keep an eye on what their hands were doing, but once they split up, yeah, it was tough (impossible) to know exactly what each was doing (I did see them drive in, but I suppose there could have been a third laying down in back of the truck). Had this been Texas, where "stop" means "STOP!", they would have created a much greater problem for themselves when they started scurrying about then they would have for me (I most likely would have chosen the "neutralize" at least one of them at that time). In addition to the tire iron, wrenches & knife on the seat, there were also two hardwood batons (barely visible in the picture). Yes, these were tools of the trade, which double as weapons in a pinch.

To answer a few direct questions:
I had all of my neighbors (1/2 mile away, one in each of three directions) on the phone as soon as I finished with 911, as they or their children may have been in immediate danger from desperados needing a getaway vehicle.
Mom's bathroom window is blocked partially open, 50 feet away. I could have yelled for her to call authorities if I had pinned the guys down.
We had a meth lab busted one mile away a few years back, & another directly across the street from our rental property on the other side of the county.
I drive my kids to school & pick them up every day, and they *KNOW* not to leave the fenced yard without an escort.

A lot of good points made by Double Naught & BillCA, you guys are well prepared mentally. Without going through point by point, I may have been able to do a few things better, but all considered I followed the routines that I have trained extensively with which kept me as safe as I could be when the SHTF. At the point that I knew for sure what they were up to, I was about 20 feet away & would have had to cover myself all the way back to the house (100 yards away) during which time I may well have encountered them on their way out (right next to my house & kids) as the crime would have been completed within 30-60 seconds. Looking back, I really don't know when I unholstered my weapon, but I think it was when I first saw the vehicle (knowing it wasn't backed up in there for any good reason), before I advanced to see the guys behind it. I do not remember seeing my front sight during either of the shots that I fired, but they were both center hits from my vantage point at the time; the tires were 20 & 25 feet away. The shots sounded very muffled; far away. I didn't just stand there like a scarecrow on a stick, I moved several times during the 20-30 seconds (at most) that the encounter lasted. If things had really hit the fan, I was only 2 or 3 cover shots & 3 or 4 big steps from disappearing around the corner of the tack room, on my left. We occassionally have farm hands (irrigators & such) pass by on their way to tend water valves located south of the barn, I'd really look foolish calling the sheriff every time one of them came to do their job.

Oh, "what was I armed with?". *sigh*
We were getting ready to go to town when this situation arose, I had my new KAHR PM9 on my waist (thouroughly broken in & tested), with an extra mag on the opposite side. It was just a couple of years ago that I encountered 3 guys in a similar situation, in the dark. I was seriously underarmed at that time with my .40 caliber Sig P239 & an extra mag, as those guys split up & tried to surround me. Yeah, I would much rather have had my shotgun, but "any gun will do, if YOU will do".

edit: Ooops, that grey building in the background is the garage, 3 block walls of barrier between where I was & where the kids were. Mom's mobile home is slightly to the left, just out of the picture.
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Old April 3, 2005, 03:54 PM   #16
WillBrayjr
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Shucks , why do all others get to have all the fun?
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Old April 3, 2005, 05:26 PM   #17
Edward429451
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Not tryin to veer OT...but

Quote:
If these were Hispanics, learn your command phrases in Spanish too.
We have a large hispanic population here...How do you say..

"Stop right there"

"Get on the Ground"

"Stay where you are or I'll shoot"

"Leave now and I won't shoot"

in spanish?

Thanks.
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Old April 3, 2005, 05:40 PM   #18
BillCA
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My neighbor says it's simpler to learn one phrase (reconstructed here)

Manos arriba, muerto hombre!

Or

Hands up, dead man!

Any Spanish speakers here?
I think Hacer no movida is Spanish for Do Not Move
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Old April 3, 2005, 05:46 PM   #19
fastforty
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Yeah, we have a dense hispanic population here too. And before anyone thinks that this is starting to turn into a racially biased thread, I will say that 99% of the hispanics I have crossed paths with are good, honest and polite people (which is in most likelyhood, a much better percentage then my fellow caucasian citizens of the area; not to say that there aren't a lot of good ones in that catagory but I've had a lot more rude encounters with my own race). Of the 4 armed encounters that I mentioned, there were seven hispanics and one caucasian involved (not counting myself). Not knowing any spanish myself (how many langauges do we need to know those commands in, have you seen how many publications DMV has on hand?), I've found that the muzzle end of a gun barrel speaks a universal langauge- "screw up right now & you will have a big hole in you".
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Old April 3, 2005, 05:55 PM   #20
BobR
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This is the one I used when living in southern Calif. Up here in northcentral Montana I don't have much use for it anymore.

Stop!!! You do not need to die!!

¡Parada!!! ¡Usted no necesita morir!!

Another that is pretty easy, and undestandable.

If you move, you die!

¡Si usted se mueve, usted muere!

Have fun. Like fastforty said, the gaping maw of a gun pointed at them can be pretty convincing that you are not happy with your "guests".

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Old April 3, 2005, 06:12 PM   #21
Edward429451
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True about a gunbarrel but I was thinking if he had his back to me (like was getting in his or my truck etc) so the verbal communication.

Might come in handy sometime hope not. I think stop or I'll shoot and leave and I wont shoot would prolly be the most useful ones to know.
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Old April 3, 2005, 07:29 PM   #22
BobR
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Quote:
leave and I wont shoot
I am not sure if I would want to use this one much. Giving someone a free ride may be inviting them to return at a later date.

Move and you die works for me, while I am getting the police on line.

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Old April 3, 2005, 07:43 PM   #23
magsnubby
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Good job fastforty. Farm thieft is alot bigger problem than people realize. A large pecentage of it is done in during daylight hours because that's when people expect to see farmerrs moving equipment and irrigation pipe. Here in the valley, the cops treat farm thieft as a very seious problem.

What part of the PRK are you in?
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Old April 3, 2005, 07:53 PM   #24
snacktrack
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things dont translate literally in spanish...like..

hands up! is...

arriba los manos! (up the hands!)

get on the ground, now!

ahora consige con la tierra! (now get with the ground)

lol, side note is i loved how there was two cold ones on the front seat of that pickup. talk about stereotypes. pickup truck, farm country, two budweisers on the front seat.
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Old April 3, 2005, 08:26 PM   #25
coolridelude
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goodthing everything when fine. you can also just say:
ALTO= stop
or
manos aribba=raise hands
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