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Old December 21, 2006, 01:45 PM   #1
FirstFreedom
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Lapua scenar as a hunting bullet?

Instead of competition? It seems like the hollow point should open up and peel back the copper housing around the dead air space rather quickly, and expose the blunt nose of the lead inside, with a pretty good "meplat impact", if that makes sense, leading to expansion. But that's just theory - do these work well on game in reality? Can you have your cake (consistency & BC) and eat it too (good performance on game)?

A 139 gr scenar in 6.5mm, with a .615 BC ( ) is interesting; thinking of loading some up in 6.5x55, but I wouldn't want to expend this time & effort *just* for target shooting (have many other reloading projects, so must prioritize); would want to be able to hunt with it if I found a really accurate load, so....
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Old December 21, 2006, 02:04 PM   #2
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Lapua has the 144 gr FMJ BT (for hunting according to this: http://www.custer.com.au/Lap/spec.ph...ifleCartridges ), with a better BC than the 139 even. But that makes no sense to me. Seems to me that the scenar would open up and expand better than a FMJ, no?
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Old December 21, 2006, 02:05 PM   #3
Wildalaska
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I use 139 grain scenars in my 6.5x55 target load (for my swede M41B) and with that load, I would hunt caribou and deer with it up to 100 yards with the M41B and 400 or so with my Blaer...

But that would be only head shots, I wouldnt think of shooting a larger game animal with one...well except maybe the little deer up here

The answer is Barnes if your gun will shoot them

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Old December 21, 2006, 02:15 PM   #4
FirstFreedom
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OK, I think I understand. They expand TOO FAST (and the core separates from the jacket, making them break up), and don't penetrate well for shoulder or quartering away shots, but on head shots or broadside shots they would work well. Thanks for the info.

But how well would the 144 FMJs work on game? Seems like they'd be less than ideal too - a lot of penetration but not much expansion....

When you say go Barnes, are you talking TSX (triple shock, all copper), or regular? As they call it, regular or unleaded?
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Old December 21, 2006, 03:37 PM   #5
Gewehr98
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I'd rate the Lapua Scenar bullets with the Sierra MatchKings.

In either bullet, the hollow point is only a remnant left after the copper jacket is drawn and formed from the base first, because target bullets want their bases formed uniformly for best accuracy. The tiny hollow point was never intended to function in expansion, nor was that style of bullet intended by the manufacturer to be used for hunting.

A buddy of mine used a 120gr 6.5mm Sierra MatchKing in a 6.5-06 to take a Texas deer about 10 years ago. The shot was good, but that target bullet whistled clean through the deer, and the exit wound was so small that there was a pitiful blood trail. We tracked that deer until well after dark, and began the search anew the next morning. We never retrieved the deer, and I was so peeved at my pal that I took the bolt from his rifle for a year as a lesson. He was an idiot for using a target bullet on deer, and I made him well aware of it.

If you want accuracy with proper hunting performance, there are many purposely-designed bullets, even by Lapua, that have high BC numbers and still offer excellent terminal performance.
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Old December 21, 2006, 03:43 PM   #6
Wildalaska
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TSX

Or try some of the Lost Rivers if you can get them to shoot

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Old December 21, 2006, 04:44 PM   #7
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Assuming your hunting deer, bench rest accuracy isn't necessarily necessary and can be rather difficult to do in the field anyway. Plane Ol' Remington's Cor-Loc's or any decent hunting bullet should shoot close to if not MOA, thats minute of deer to several hundred yards out huntin'. Which is about all a hunter needs, correct?
Why risk a FMJ pass thru or a vicious surface wound for a minuscule amount of accuracy?
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Old December 21, 2006, 07:03 PM   #8
FirstFreedom
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The Lost River Bullets look *VERY* interesting:

http://www.lostriverballistic.com/LR...ow.cfm?CNum=10

Copper/nickel alloy, good hunting expansion and weight retention, according to them. rem33, I'm not looking for benchrest accuracy, but I want something that gets there fast enough and with enough BC to buck high winds effectively to 300 yards exactly. Looking for something that I can zero at 250 yards, and be no more than 3" high at 150, and no more than 3" low at 300, and have no more than 4" blown off-course by a 10mph crosswind. The .270 win with a 135 gr lost river bullet at .649 BC accomplishes the task, when pushed at 3050 MV. WA says "if you can get them to shoot"; makes me think they have notsomuch reputation for accuracy, but I think that could be the result of not matching the twist rate with the bullet. I'm gonna try them - both the .277 135s and the 90 gr .257s for .25-06. Thanks guys!
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Old December 21, 2006, 07:05 PM   #9
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Gewehr98 is correct. Match bullets are not made for hunting and their hollow points are not designed to expand. In other words you will have your cake and starve to death.
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Old December 21, 2006, 07:15 PM   #10
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OK, thanks. I still don't understand *why* they pass through without expanding (after all, they are made of lead, a very soft metal). But regardless, I believe you when you say it and won't try it. Maybe it's tin/antimony content in the lead core...

rimrod, I posted above at same moment as you...
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Old December 21, 2006, 08:56 PM   #11
Gewehr98
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I have some of the Lost River 6.5mm bullets.

Namely, the J36 120gr bullets, with a supposed .687 BC. They have a copper tip over an open cavity in the nose for expansion, and are very long for their caliber, hence the high BC numbers. I haven't run them in my 6.5-06 yet, because I'm having so much fun with the Lapua bullets, and also because those 20 Lost River bullets cost me nearly $20.00 with shipping and handling. They look wicked and well-made, but from what I gather from my fellow F-Class shooters, are hard to get shooting well.

I also had a box of J40 144gr target bullets I sent a friend to try in his 6.5x55 Howa sporter. Before I shipped them, I took a look at them - they looked like they had been turned individually on a lathe, and rather roughly at that. Again, these are expensive bullets to have essentially machine threads still appearing on their jackets.

From left to right, a selection of 6.5mm bullets from my reloading bench, starting with a Sierra 120gr MatchKing, a Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tip, a Lapua 123gr Scenar, a Lost River 120gr J36, and a Lost River 132gr J40:



As for FMJ and HPBTM bullets not expanding, they probably would, were one to hit bone or construction materials. However, the military FMJ ammo is specifically designed to stay more or less together per the Hague Conventions, and target bullets like the Sierra MatchKings owe their design strictly to generating best accuracy while making nice holes in thin paper and cardboard targets. The hollow point of a Hollow Point Boat Tail Match bullet is strictly an after-effect of the jacket drawing process, don't read any purpose into other than that. If you use one for hunting edible game, you're on your own.

Pelt hunters actually like non-expanding bullets, so they use either military FMJ or Sierra MatchKings to minimize the size of the holes they drill into their quarry. There are many hunters, especially on the Internet forums like TFL and THR, who brag about how they deer hunt with MatchKings and military ball ammo, stating that they do nothing but head shots with minute-of-deer-eyebulb shooting afield. Of course, everybody on the 'Net shoots benchrest accuracy unsupported and offhand during deer season, so it should really come as no surprise that they would prefer that type of projectile vs. something designed to actually expand and humanely take game.

Likewise, select a hunting bullet based on what you want to hunt. I've tried the Nosler 120gr Ballistic Tip on both armadillo and whitetail, leaving my 6.5-06 at an honest 3200fps. When struck in the brown eye, the majority of the armadillo vaporized in a pink mist, leaving basically a rocking shell on the ground. (Say what you will about the last thing going through his mind...) The whitetail had a horrible amount of ruined (liquified) meat, and was literally sprinkled through the wound channel with tiny little flecks of copper. I'd call it dramatically effective, and not particularly what I was looking for in an edible game bullet. I understand that Nosler has since then redesigned the bullet, but to me it will probably never be more than a varmint bullet.
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Old December 21, 2006, 09:07 PM   #12
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It is interesting, be sure and let us know how it all works out, And good shooting.
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