Question. LEOs at the door with warrant

[Perldog007]

Frankly, doesn't the public at large expect the full resources of the law to be utilized to capture a known serial killer, whether you'd "hate" to see it or not?

Yup, but as posted I have personally witnessed an off the hook raid for an apartment with some potheads in it. Everybody near the whole building got messed with. I never realized a warrant for an apartment occupied by four young black males applied to elderly black people and white people who happened to be within 30 yards of the same building....

Also heard two cops at the gun store discussing a "raid" on a trailer where the startled p*** ant heard his door break on a no knock and picked up a pellet pistol (dumb p*** ant at that).

Luckily for said p*** ant said officers marksmanship was on par with their street smarts, he was hit in the femur and shoulder at range of less than 10'. He will survive, less than a quarter ounce of coke and a weapon (the pellet pistol) from this daring raid.

Their discussion matched the write up in the local paper.

And check out this story of bravery and courage .....
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=59616

And yes, I have kicked in a door or two. Once to recover a skip in West Philly at OdarkThirty on 7OCT87. Once working in public housing in D.C. two pre teen girls were in a vacant apartment used by the local crew as a gang clubhouse. Both times I was solo.

The skip was previously given the chance to do it the easy way. The kids parents were very pleased that their daughters were removed from that apartment before the gang members found them there.

I can be proud of my actions on the occasions when I came through the door by taking it off the hinges suddenly. Would not be able to say the same if involved in any of the other incidents mentioned above, or what happened to Spookboy.

Nobody is faulting officials for exercising good care and using appropriate force. By your screen name you seem to be in the trade. You have to know that not every raid by every organization is warranted. If you are in the trade and do not believe that exuberance occurs we can't help you.

[vox rationis]

Steel Core I totally sympathize with your sentiments about not wanting to be victimized by heavy handed government police tactics.

All I'll say is that I think we'd all agree that there is an obvious role for SWAT type police squads, but also that LE agencies ought to really take such SWAT actions, and the planning associated therewith extremely seriously, and be religious about rock solid intelligence, and be extremely judicious when they unleash such paramilitary units upon the public.

[JollyRoger]

From the Butchers of Waco to the daily raids on stupid but harmless hippies who sell pot or coke to each other

Dude, come on. The Butchers of Waco were the nutballs who opened up on the ATF when they were serving a federal search warrant reviewed and approved by a Federal District Judge. Having obtained a number of those warrants, I can attest to the fact that there is no rubber-stamp process here. If said nutballs wanted to contest the probable cause, they could have hired a good lawyer and had their day in court rather than murdering dedicated federal agents. 'nuff said.

If you don't like the drug laws, write your Congressman. LEO's enforce the laws on the books, they don't make them.

I can be proud of my actions on the occasions when I came through the door by taking it off the hinges suddenly.

Perldog007, you can be proud of doing something stupid if you want to. I made a couple solo arrests of genuine bad guys when circumstances required it and got away with it, but I also made couple 2-on-1 arrests where we almost didn't get away with it. Most LEO's get the toughguy stuff out of their systems after they wind up in a bad situation and realize how easy it would be to lose and get hurt or killed. After that, we just want to get the job done and go home with no new holes. The best way to do that is to go in with superiority of manpower and superiority of force: lots of LEO's, lots of firepower. While these much-maligned "paramilitary" techniques may offend some posters here, they usually impress upon the bad guys that any resistance is futile. That way the bad guy gets to jail alive, and LEO's don't have to go through the nightmare that comes with a shooting incident. Better for everybody.

[SteelCore]

Dude, come on. The Butchers of Waco were the nutballs who opened up on the ATF when they were serving a federal search warrant reviewed and approved by a Federal District Judge. Having obtained a number of those warrants, I can attest to the fact that there is no rubber-stamp process here. If said nutballs wanted to contest the probable cause, they could have hired a good lawyer and had their day in court rather than murdering dedicated federal agents. 'nuff said.

The ATF has no right to exist, and every single one of those "dedicated federal agents" is/was an armed enemy of the US Constitution and freedom itself. Thus, they were in the wrong no matter what happened. And I believe the ATF fired first.

As to the need for the raid and the obvious misconduct and lies during and after it (including blatant perjury by ATF officials), you might want to watch Waco: The Rules of Engagement. It contains plenty of real-time footage that makes it quite unambiguous who the real sickos were in that incident.

If you don't like the drug laws, write your Congressman.

The average citizen has absolutely no power to change the laws on the books, and my Congressman (along with most others) doesn't give a crap about the Constitution or anything the average citizen has to say.

Besides, why should anyone have to beg another man (or woman) for the natural right to do as he pleases with his own body and health? Drug laws wrongly deny that right. By the logic on which they're based, people could be thrown in prison for drinking too much, eating too much, or not exercising. (I do believe it should remain illegal to provide drugs to minors, though, or to operate a car while under the influence and so forth.)

I don't use or sell drugs, but there are other unconstitutional and tyrannical laws on the books that I reserve the right to break as I see fit. Since I have no desire to harm innocent people or their property, my conscience is clear.

LEO's enforce the laws on the books, they don't make them.

"Just following orders" is no more an excuse in the US than it was at Nuremberg. For the most part, I don't begrudge cops enforcing the laws as long as they never violate citizens' rights themselves. But some laws are so obviously unconstitutional, and are so obviously there JUST to protect political power, that their enforcement is a crime against everything this nation stands for.

[kgpcr]

some pretty wacked out people here!! As for David Koresh when you are getting hand grenades via UPS there is a problem. I am glad they raided his compound. Who needs hand grenades. but oh yes they were planted i forgot. there is a conspiracy behind every tree no wait thats paranoia

[SteelCore]

Never mind...

[ghalleen]

I would think it would be obvious by looking at vehicles. In my city, the police cars stand out. If I looked out the door or window and saw several police officers, as well as a couple of police cars, I think it would be safe to assume that they are the police.

If I don't see police cars, then I'll get suspicious.

[Creature]

Who needs hand grenades.

I wouldnt mind having a few...I guess that makes me whack?

[Capt. Charlie]

Well, it took longer for this to go south than I thought it would, but go south it did.

This is tactics and training, not legal & political. We went from discerning real cops serving a search warrant to debating the merits of same, as usually happens when the subject of search warrants comes up. And of course, the inevitable Waco had to come up.

So much for staying on topic.

Closed.