Kimber CCO size gun, or any others...

[Socrates]

Hi
I'm looking for a Kimber CCO, or commander sized gun.

since so many of you want to get rid of your kimbers, email me, and, for under 700, I'll be happy to take your kimbers off your hands.

Thanks

Socrates
PS: other wise, shut up

PPS If your are dumb enough to send a flawed gun to a minimum wage gunsmith, read Kimber service, send it to me. I've got two GREAT gunsmiths that can make ANY 1911 work, for the cost of shipping to Kimber, etc...

[maestro pistolero]

One Kimber pro tle rlII sold to the man with the big mouth and rude demeanor for 699.00. Put up or shut up yourself. Email me to proceed with the transaction. I hope you enjoy your new POS.

[Shadi Khalil]

man, times like these I wish I had one of those popcorn eating smilies.

[DMK]

I have a Colt CCO. And no you can't have it.

Perfect sized 1911 for CCW IMO.

[Officer's Match]

Socrates, it is weird how often you post something I'd been thinking about - I've been watching Kimber's in their "compact" CCO size on GunBroker.

Any other suggestions for Officer-framed, Commander-lengthed 1911's? Particularly alloy-framed ones?

[DMK]

Any other suggestions for Officer-framed, Commander-lengthed 1911's? Particularly alloy-framed ones?

I love the CCO format. Unfortunately (like most things I like) they aren't popular and some manufacturers have dropped them due to poor sales.

The options as I see are:

Colt CCO (out of production)
Colt CCO XSE (out of production)
Kimber Compact Stainless II
Kimber Compact CDP II
Para PXT LDA CCW (double action)
Sig Evolution C3

Here's my well used and much carried Colt CCO

[Officer's Match]

It is odd (to me anyway) that as popular as the 1911 is, that a lightweight CCO size is not readily available from a variety of manufacturer's. Especially one like ParaOrd, that offers so many "flavors" of 1911.

[DMK]

It is odd (to me anyway) that as popular as the 1911 is, that a lightweight CCO size is not readily available from a variety of manufacturer's. Especially one like ParaOrd, that offers so many "flavors" of 1911.

I don't get it either.

It seems to me that folks automatically think: concealment = short barrel. Those folks want the smallest possible gun and are willing to go with a smaller grip. They don't like the CCO because it has a long slide.

Folks that want a larger gun, also want a larger grip and want the extra round of capacity, so they also don't like the CCO.

I find the CCO to be the best compromise. IMO, the grip is the hardest part to conceal. I even use thin grips on mine. The grip is small on the CCO, but the gun is still very controllable. I think the long barrel helps this. You can also use regular 8 round 1911 mags, they just stick out. I carry one for a reload.

[Officer's Match]

The thing that gets me it that most knowledgeable people will tell you that the shortened action 3" or 3.5" 1911's are not (on average) as functionally reliable as Commander length 1911's. Now what weapon requires complete functional reliability more than a CCW piece?

[Pappy John]

My Series I Kimber is still working fine, thank you very much. Ya still can't have it. Nyaah!

[pinotguy]

The options as I see are:

Colt CCO (out of production)
Colt CCO XSE (out of production)
Kimber Compact Stainless II
Kimber Compact CDP II
Para PXT LDA CCW (double action)
Sig Evolution C3

Nighthawk recently introduced a CCO format - T3. I'm a big fan of the CCO as well and although they are somewhat rare, it's surprising to see how many are available.

[Officer's Match]

Pappy, that's real purty.

[Socrates]

First a formal apology to maestro pistolero. I was mad when I posted this. Why?

In Kali of the guns approved, at least the Kimbers, only the
Kimber Compact Stainless II and Kimber Compact CDP II are avaliable for sale.

There are 3 colts approved for sale in 4.25" barrels:
04012XSE Combat Commander / Stainless Steel (brushed)04091U / Stainless Steel
and 04691 / Carbon Steel

None of those are CCO.

I'm' waiting for S&W to make a CCO sized gun, and they haven't.

No Sig 1911's on the list, or the new Detonics version with 4" barrel, and CCO sized frame.

So, that leaves me with nothing but a Kimber, and, that makes me mad
maestro pistolero, is your gun internal or external extractor?

If external, I'll pass.

I really like the idea of having a CCO and full sized 1911, since the CCO can use my Wilson mags, for extra rounds.

MY anger was at the frustrating limitations placed on avaliable guns for sale in this state. Due to this, by the way, guys ask very high prices for used guns that are pretty beat. Recently looked at a Colt Commander, and, with some weird safety and slide stop, the guy was asking near 800 dollars. Feed ramp looked pretty beat on, and, the gun looked like it was setup for some kind of competition action shooting, and was at the end of it's rope.

[maestro pistolero]

Apology accepted

[Socrates]

I gather your gun has the external extractor? These are rather famous for not working, and, 699 is way too much for a gun with such a design problem. Sorry you bought it. God Bless you, and good luck with your gun...

Funny that S&W can get the external extractor to work, but Kimber can't?

You might also get sick of playing with Kimber and give Jack Huntington a call. If he can't get it to work, no one can.

Sorry you bought such a poorly functioning gun...

[maestro pistolero]

I gather your gun has the external extractor? These are rather famous for not working, and, 699 is way too much for a gun with such a design problem. Sorry you bought it. God Bless you, and good luck with your gun...

Funny that S&W can get the external extractor to work, but Kimber can't?

You might also get sick of playing with Kimber and give Jack Huntington a call. If he can't get it to work, no one can.

Sorry you bought such a poorly functioning gun...

Thanks Socrates. No, it's internal. It's a brand new one (well it was before I broke it in). And there have been no failures to extract. I am going to follow this through with Kimber. If they fail to fix it this time, (remember they already replaced the first gun) I'll take your advise and find another smith. Who's Jack Huntington? does he have a website so I can contact him?

[Socrates]

Jack's phone number: 5302686877
[email protected]

Don't expect email returned, as a general rule. Calling is better.

Jack's one of the best gunsmiths on the planet, and one of only two I know that actually have degrees from colleges in gunsmithing, the other being Hamilton Bowen. He fixed my John Linebaugh, when after 20 years, I got sick of timing it with my finger, when using heavy loads.

Let me price a new Kimber CCO in Kali through my two local shops, and I'll get back to you.

Problem is, Jack is doing a conversion to .475 caliber 1911's, allowing me to use .475 Hawk 300 grain bullets, at about 800 to 900 fps, and, I think I'm going to have him change my 45 Super Kimber Custom II to that, and, if all goes well, I'll pick up a Kimber like yours, CCO size, and convert it as well.

While I'd like Jack's .500 JRH, right now, Hornady 475 Linebaugh ammo, and 480 ruger ammo is so cheap, I can't justify the added expense, and, really, if 400 grains at 1350 fps isn't going to do it, in .475 caliber,I need a 375 or Lott...

I'm curious if you've checked with Ed Brown, and what parts he offers for your gun? I'd call them, if for no other reason then to find out what they recommend to insure reliability.

I'd also consider increasing the spring rate to the max wolfe offers. Did this with all my 1911's, and, since I load heavy, and relatively heavy bullets, I've had no reliability problems, period, with an Ultra Carry II, Custom II, Detonics Mark VI. They loose about 25% of spring strength, and, after that, are just about perfect for a VERY long time. I found that the cheap practice ammo, with junk powder, like American Eagle, cycles the stiff springs with no problems. The term 'heavy recoiling powder' comes to mind, with 230 grain bullets, life is good.

I'd want to get rid of the MIM, and, replace with Ed Brown stuff, that would put the gun near Wilson Combat price category.
I also have Wilson mags, and one Kimber mag, but, since my guns steel, it's not a problem, yet.

I will say once again, that sending the gun back to any gun maker is NOT a good idea. As a general rule, they are underpaid, new guy gunsmiths, starting out, that just aren't very good. Problem is, well, try checking out Hamilton Bowen and Linebaugh prices for work, right now...

I also don't get the big, stupid beavertail on the gun, for a CCW gun. Course I don't have fat hands, and never had 'bite' with my Detonics Mark VI.


I suspect, for 699, I'll buy it from you, if you really want to sell it. My terms of sale would be to ship it to
Jack Huntington, Advanced Gunsmithing
21854 Meyer Ravine
Grass Valley, California 95949

For a three day inspection. If the gun has no structural flaws, I'll send you a cashier's check, as fast as you want the money to get there, read you pay the shipping for the cashier's check, depending on speed. I'll also get a copy of Jack's FFL, and forward it to your shipper, so you can send it by US Mail, insured.
Jack may want the gun shipped to a local Grass Valley gunshop, and not his FFL, so I'll have to check with him on this.

http://www.jrhgunmaker.com/

[maestro pistolero]

At this point I'm going to hold Kimber's feet to the fire on fixing it. Perhaps they do have min wage "gunsmiths" as you say. But SOMEBODY at Kimber HAS to know how to make it work. They built the damn thing didn't they?

These have been extenuating circumstances to say the least, and my considerable patience in this matter has run out. If it doesn't come back PERFECT, it will go back for the last time with a formal letter of demand that they either:

1. Send me a gun that works immediately, even if that means going to a full-size.

2. Refund the entire purchase price plus tax plus registration plus shipping costs for the four return trips.

3. Face me in small claims. (which I doubt they will want to do considering the embarassing facts of the matter).

I will be making all of this clear to them on the phone tomorrow.

So I'm not going to sell the gun yet. But if I do, I'll give you the first shot at it. Fair enough?

If anyone doesn't understand my degree of outrage with Kimber I urge you to read my many posts http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...archid=1409699 about this ongoing and unbelievable comedy of errors surrounding this Pro TLE/RLII and the last one that they couldn't FIX.

[DMK]

At this point I'm going to hold Kimber's feet to the fire on fixing it. Perhaps they do have min wage "gunsmiths" as you say. But SOMEBODY at Kimber HAS to know how to make it work. They built the damn thing didn't they?

Good for you! I know it's expensive to ship a gun. I know it's a hassle and aggravating. But when I see a post that goes "Had a gun, shipped it back, it's still broke, so I sold it and bought brand X", it makes me cringe. Because I see the manager of the service dept. saying this: "Customer said he had a bad gun, sent it back, we looked at it, didn't see anything wrong, left it on the bench for a week, sent it back and never heard another thing about it. No news is good news! See, there wasn't anything wrong with it at all!" His monthly report goes upstairs, and the bean counters see no reason to spend any money to change a thing.