Teaching kids - Savage .17 HMR or Ruger 10/22?

diesel83 · February 27, 2008, 02:15 PM

Looking for advice on the next "family gun".

I went last weekend with an old work pal. The kids had a blast shooting .22’s, especially on my friend’s customized, suppressed Ruger 10/22 and little Davey Crickett bolt action. I brought along a single shot Rossi .22 with hi-viz sights.

So, after last weekend’s shoot and some progress on my auction, I have a quandary about my next purchase. I’d like to get another “family gun” that we can shoot together on a Sunday afternoon that I can cultivate good skills within my school age kids.

On one hand, the thought of adding another .22 lr to the fold makes great economic sense. The Ruger 10/22 is an obvious choice (Sports Authority has one for $169.99) and 550 rounds at Walmart is $12.97. The number of accessories that can be had is attractive. It’s obviously a fun little shooter with plenty of accessories to be had.

Adding a .22 to the existing inventory (I have .22 Rossi single shot and a .22 Ruger 22/45 pistol) doesn’t impact the logistics of procuring ammo.

Part of me thinks that having a semi-auto is not the best for teaching fire discipline to the kids, so I am also thinking about bolt-actions.

I went down to Dick’s Sporting Goods and saw a slick Savage 93R17-GV in .17 HMR for about $189.00. I read up a little on the 17 HMR round. It’s incredibly flat shooting and with the Accutrigger of the seems to be a tack driver. The counter-point is that the ammunition is more expensive. $13.97 for 50 rounds seems to be the going rate. I’d also have to add scope and rings to the mix immediately, but I’d do that for the Ruger 10/22 eventually.

A point of advice that I have been given is that kids tend to burn through semi-auto rounds, so that having a bolt action that’s a little hotter might give them a nice, level headed experience before working up to centerfire rounds (Got a Mini-14 in .223, Mosin-Nagant, Mauser and a lever action Winchester in .357).

Any thoughts the next family "toy"?

Pahoo · February 27, 2008, 02:54 PM

In our classes, we instruct with Marlin single shot bolt action youth rifles. Open sights only, as we feel the kids need to learn this skill before they progress to the scope. Understand that for most, this is the first time they have shot anything. We can teach all the diciplines with these bolt actions, including ammo conservation. My problem is that in prep for our first class, I cannot shoot these little devils so have to take my 12yr. old Grandson along to make sure the guns are shooting well and put in some time away from Mom. You might also consider the Henry Mini or Acu-Bolt rifles.

Sadly these kids grow up to fast and also take my Grandson hunting with his 10/22. Again, continued with open sights and now shoots with a scope. He wears glasses and the booger still shoots great with open sights and no glasses. All we shoot is .22's and the .17 may or may not come later.

Be Safe

psdan000 · February 27, 2008, 03:07 PM

you will love the .17 HMR, and so will your kids. i say go for that one.

bedlamite · February 27, 2008, 05:55 PM

http://www.savagearms.com/markiig.htm

Scorch · February 27, 2008, 06:04 PM

My opinion is to buy a bolt action 22 to start the kids. It will teach them fire discipline and to follow the basics when shooting. The 17HMR is for the more advanced shooter, meaning someone who can afford to buy their own ammo. 17HMR ammo is $13/box or more, but you can still buy good 22LR ammo for just over $1/box.

diesel83 · February 27, 2008, 07:02 PM

I have the .22 single shot for the basics. Think it's a stretch to move up to .17 HMR with the kids from there?

homefires · February 27, 2008, 09:33 PM

Old School! Red Rider BB gun then .22....

When they prove they are safe with the Red Rider , They Graduate to the .22. Then they get a single shot. Rem, What ever.

How I was, How mine Are, and how IT well be !

God, I love Kids!

Little ones are the future.

diesel83 · February 27, 2008, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Old School! Red Rider BB gun then .22....

Got the BB Gun, pellet gun, single shot .22. It's the next step that we are taking.

Someone pinged me regarding CZ-452s. Any opinions on those? Have not had an opportunity to handle one. Any guesstimate on what they retail for?

Sgt.Fathead · February 28, 2008, 12:57 AM

I use one of three 10/22s we own to teach new shooters on long guns and have actually instructed one 'kid', a lad of ten, my brother's nephew. To accommodate the little Marine (why do you think we use the three round burst M16A2? Lack of fire discipline!) in every kid, I loaded the stock ten round 10/22 rotary mags one round at a time. With three 10/22s in the safe, we have six of the ten rounders and with an over sized, after market mag release lever, it's easy to drop one in and pull one out.

I think if I was going to teach kids more often, I'd get a better quality .22 bolt action. While the .17 intrigues me, the price waves me off.

Scorch · February 28, 2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

I have the .22 single shot for the basics. Think it's a stretch to move up to .17 HMR with the kids from there?

If you have the basics covered with a single-shot 22, I would just graduate them to a 10/22, it will be a lot cheaper in the long run, and they are not missing anything yet. Their Dad may want a 17HMR for himself, though

.

Kreyzhorse · February 28, 2008, 08:08 AM

With the rising cost of ammo, it only makes sense to buy a .22lr. You mentioned that this is a "family" gun so I envision lots of rounds going down range. Any thing other than a .22lr is over kill in my opinion.

As far as rifle, several guys made good points about a "single" shot rifle and I can't disagree. However, if you do buy a Ruger 10/22, it's an outstanding rifle.

From a learning standpoint, I think most of us learned on a 22lr. My next step up was a .308 and a .357 mag. I don't think its a stretch to go from a .22lr to a .308. The recoil is greater but what's important is learning to safely handle a firearm.

YukonKid · February 28, 2008, 02:31 PM

a .22 for starters

then i would recommend a bolt action single shot. It is the safest weapon to teach someone on and they will learn to shoot accurately, and not just shoot.

I have several .22 rifles and a .22 pistol and the most fun one of them for me is my henry lever. It is just a blast, so you could look into that as well if you wanted to.

Out of strictly what is one your list go 10/22, i have the target version and its a fun little gun. Plus .22 ammo is cheaper.

YK

bunni · February 28, 2008, 07:06 PM

I learned on a bolt action .22 - and I'd recommend it - there's something about working that action that still gives me a smile.

That said, I find .22 magnum lever actions the most fun in a rimfire.

Quote:

Old School! Red Rider BB gun then .22....

Hah! Well my dad did start me off with a Daisy Red Ryder... I'd pop soda cans for hours.

U.S.SFC_RET · February 28, 2008, 07:33 PM

Bolt action 22. As the rest would say. Very accurate and pleasing results. If you want to shoot 22 shorts then you won't even scare the little ones.

Reyn · February 28, 2008, 07:51 PM

CZs make excellent rimfires. I have a HM2 and HMR in the 452 American.

homefires · February 28, 2008, 08:46 PM

Old school! My seven year old has a Heney Single shot bolt aciton. Fits him and he shoots it most well. My older son had a Chip Monk and it too did well.

Edit: Yep sub sonic stuff, I like CCI is clean and does the job. Waks Rabbits ,Rats and other Vermin. Good on the ears on the little ones.

diesel83 · February 29, 2008, 12:12 PM

I already have the single shot, .22 break action with high-viz sights for basics. Someone pointed out that if I am considering .17 HMR, I might as well just go all out for .223 (I have a .223 autoloader in inventory) and reduce the logistics issue, especially if I am going to put a scope into the mix. 50 rounds of .17 HMR go for $13 prox around here with 50 rounds of .223 going for $22.00. 500 rounds of .22 go for $12. Might as well simplify my life. I guess the attractive price of .17 HMR rifles is what draws me to them.

All in all it comes down to:

1. Semi-Auto Repeater vs. Bolt repeater
2. .22 vs .17 HMR
3. Iron sights vs. Scope
4. .17 HMR vs. .223

Thanks for your attention.

Willie D · February 29, 2008, 12:30 PM

+1 on a bolt action and +1 on iron sights. Semi is fun but sort of encourages you to "hurry up and shoot". Learning/practicing on iron sights will make you a better shooter and you can switch to scope any time you want. I don't think scope shooting improves your iron shooting nearly as well.

I think the CZ is in the $300 range. According to everyone who has one it is a superlative gun for the price. The kids won't ever grow out of it. Won't go wrong with Savage or Marlin either.

diesel83 · March 2, 2008, 12:25 AM

Looks like a Savage Mark II .22 lr Bolt-Action is coming into my life. Save for a CZ in .223 later for next year. Thanks for the tips.

February 27, 2008, 02:15 PM	#1
diesel83 Member Join Date: February 26, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountain Posts: 26	Teaching kids - Savage .17 HMR or Ruger 10/22? Looking for advice on the next "family gun". I went last weekend with an old work pal. The kids had a blast shooting .22’s, especially on my friend’s customized, suppressed Ruger 10/22 and little Davey Crickett bolt action. I brought along a single shot Rossi .22 with hi-viz sights. So, after last weekend’s shoot and some progress on my auction, I have a quandary about my next purchase. I’d like to get another “family gun” that we can shoot together on a Sunday afternoon that I can cultivate good skills within my school age kids. On one hand, the thought of adding another .22 lr to the fold makes great economic sense. The Ruger 10/22 is an obvious choice (Sports Authority has one for $169.99) and 550 rounds at Walmart is $12.97. The number of accessories that can be had is attractive. It’s obviously a fun little shooter with plenty of accessories to be had. Adding a .22 to the existing inventory (I have .22 Rossi single shot and a .22 Ruger 22/45 pistol) doesn’t impact the logistics of procuring ammo. Part of me thinks that having a semi-auto is not the best for teaching fire discipline to the kids, so I am also thinking about bolt-actions. I went down to Dick’s Sporting Goods and saw a slick Savage 93R17-GV in .17 HMR for about $189.00. I read up a little on the 17 HMR round. It’s incredibly flat shooting and with the Accutrigger of the seems to be a tack driver. The counter-point is that the ammunition is more expensive. $13.97 for 50 rounds seems to be the going rate. I’d also have to add scope and rings to the mix immediately, but I’d do that for the Ruger 10/22 eventually. A point of advice that I have been given is that kids tend to burn through semi-auto rounds, so that having a bolt action that’s a little hotter might give them a nice, level headed experience before working up to centerfire rounds (Got a Mini-14 in .223, Mosin-Nagant, Mauser and a lever action Winchester in .357). Any thoughts the next family "toy"?

February 27, 2008, 05:55 PM	#4
bedlamite Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: WI Posts: 1,395	http://www.savagearms.com/markiig.htm __________________ A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.

February 27, 2008, 06:04 PM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	My opinion is to buy a bolt action 22 to start the kids. It will teach them fire discipline and to follow the basics when shooting. The 17HMR is for the more advanced shooter, meaning someone who can afford to buy their own ammo. 17HMR ammo is $13/box or more, but you can still buy good 22LR ammo for just over $1/box. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

February 28, 2008, 08:08 AM	#11
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	With the rising cost of ammo, it only makes sense to buy a .22lr. You mentioned that this is a "family" gun so I envision lots of rounds going down range. Any thing other than a .22lr is over kill in my opinion. As far as rifle, several guys made good points about a "single" shot rifle and I can't disagree. However, if you do buy a Ruger 10/22, it's an outstanding rifle. From a learning standpoint, I think most of us learned on a 22lr. My next step up was a .308 and a .357 mag. I don't think its a stretch to go from a .22lr to a .308. The recoil is greater but what's important is learning to safely handle a firearm. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

February 28, 2008, 02:31 PM	#12
YukonKid Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: NW Posts: 744	a .22 for starters then i would recommend a bolt action single shot. It is the safest weapon to teach someone on and they will learn to shoot accurately, and not just shoot. I have several .22 rifles and a .22 pistol and the most fun one of them for me is my henry lever. It is just a blast, so you could look into that as well if you wanted to. Out of strictly what is one your list go 10/22, i have the target version and its a fun little gun. Plus .22 ammo is cheaper. YK __________________ This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill Fifteen percent concentrated power of will Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!

February 27, 2008, 02:54 PM	#2
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	In our classes, we instruct with Marlin single shot bolt action youth rifles. Open sights only, as we feel the kids need to learn this skill before they progress to the scope. Understand that for most, this is the first time they have shot anything. We can teach all the diciplines with these bolt actions, including ammo conservation. My problem is that in prep for our first class, I cannot shoot these little devils so have to take my 12yr. old Grandson along to make sure the guns are shooting well and put in some time away from Mom. You might also consider the Henry Mini or Acu-Bolt rifles. Sadly these kids grow up to fast and also take my Grandson hunting with his 10/22. Again, continued with open sights and now shoots with a scope. He wears glasses and the booger still shoots great with open sights and no glasses. All we shoot is .22's and the .17 may or may not come later. Be Safe

February 27, 2008, 03:07 PM	#3
psdan000 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2007 Location: Amelia, Ohio Posts: 258	you will love the .17 HMR, and so will your kids. i say go for that one.

February 27, 2008, 07:02 PM	#6
diesel83 Member Join Date: February 26, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountain Posts: 26	I have the .22 single shot for the basics. Think it's a stretch to move up to .17 HMR with the kids from there?

February 27, 2008, 09:33 PM	#7
homefires Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2007 Location: Deming New Mexico Posts: 1,495	Old School! Red Rider BB gun then .22.... When they prove they are safe with the Red Rider , They Graduate to the .22. Then they get a single shot. Rem, What ever. How I was, How mine Are, and how IT well be ! God, I love Kids! Little ones are the future.

February 28, 2008, 12:57 AM	#9
Sgt.Fathead Junior member Join Date: March 3, 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 1,637	I use one of three 10/22s we own to teach new shooters on long guns and have actually instructed one 'kid', a lad of ten, my brother's nephew. To accommodate the little Marine (why do you think we use the three round burst M16A2? Lack of fire discipline!) in every kid, I loaded the stock ten round 10/22 rotary mags one round at a time. With three 10/22s in the safe, we have six of the ten rounders and with an over sized, after market mag release lever, it's easy to drop one in and pull one out. I think if I was going to teach kids more often, I'd get a better quality .22 bolt action. While the .17 intrigues me, the price waves me off.

February 28, 2008, 07:33 PM	#14
U.S.SFC_RET Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 2005 Location: The Old line State Posts: 282	Bolt action 22. As the rest would say. Very accurate and pleasing results. If you want to shoot 22 shorts then you won't even scare the little ones. __________________ 1. Treat every firearm as if it were loaded. 2. Never point a firearm at anything you do not intend to shoot. 3. Keep the finger off the trigger and firearm on safe until ready to shoot. 4. Know the target and what's beyond it.

February 28, 2008, 07:51 PM	#15
Reyn Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2005 Posts: 115	CZs make excellent rimfires. I have a HM2 and HMR in the 452 American.

February 28, 2008, 08:46 PM	#16
homefires Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2007 Location: Deming New Mexico Posts: 1,495	Trainer Old school! My seven year old has a Heney Single shot bolt aciton. Fits him and he shoots it most well. My older son had a Chip Monk and it too did well. Edit: Yep sub sonic stuff, I like CCI is clean and does the job. Waks Rabbits ,Rats and other Vermin. Good on the ears on the little ones.

February 29, 2008, 12:12 PM	#17
diesel83 Member Join Date: February 26, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountain Posts: 26	I already have the single shot, .22 break action with high-viz sights for basics. Someone pointed out that if I am considering .17 HMR, I might as well just go all out for .223 (I have a .223 autoloader in inventory) and reduce the logistics issue, especially if I am going to put a scope into the mix. 50 rounds of .17 HMR go for $13 prox around here with 50 rounds of .223 going for $22.00. 500 rounds of .22 go for $12. Might as well simplify my life. I guess the attractive price of .17 HMR rifles is what draws me to them. All in all it comes down to: 1. Semi-Auto Repeater vs. Bolt repeater 2. .22 vs .17 HMR 3. Iron sights vs. Scope 4. .17 HMR vs. .223 Thanks for your attention.

February 29, 2008, 12:30 PM	#18
Willie D Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Posts: 1,149	+1 on a bolt action and +1 on iron sights. Semi is fun but sort of encourages you to "hurry up and shoot". Learning/practicing on iron sights will make you a better shooter and you can switch to scope any time you want. I don't think scope shooting improves your iron shooting nearly as well. I think the CZ is in the $300 range. According to everyone who has one it is a superlative gun for the price. The kids won't ever grow out of it. Won't go wrong with Savage or Marlin either.

March 2, 2008, 12:25 AM	#19
diesel83 Member Join Date: February 26, 2008 Location: Rocky Mountain Posts: 26	Looks like a Savage Mark II .22 lr Bolt-Action is coming into my life. Save for a CZ in .223 later for next year. Thanks for the tips.