It Almost Happened...(long)

Shadi Khalil · April 27, 2008, 03:01 AM

Hello All,

As I write this my hands are still trembling a bit. Here's the story. Today at around 6:00pm I get a heart-wretching call from my mom. She has bad disc in her back, she bent over to lift a bag of rice and went down and couldnt get up. My dad is out of town so she had no one there to help. She had laid on the floor for an hour before she could crawl to a phone to call me. I raced over there and took her to the hospital. After some x-rays, a few shots of happy juice and a good scolding from her specialist she was discharged. We headed home, taking a short cut as she was feeling car sick. While my mother and father have a beauitful home in a very nice neighborhood, some of the surrounding areas are not so nice. They live in Manassas, N. Virginia, I live in Arlington N. Va just minutes outside of DC and a few spots where they live rivial some bad neighborhoods in DC.

Well anyone who knows the Manassas knows Gerogetown South and to get home from the hosptial we passed through there. My mom spot a gas station and ask me to stop and get her a bottle of water. As I pull out of the gas station and start up the road an old beat up civic comes roaring out of the adject strip mall parking lot, blowing his stop sign and just barely missing me. I Steered out of the way, narrowly averting his car and kinda skidding out into the other lane. At some point during all this I must have hit my horn or flashed my lights at the guy (naturally) and I think this made him and the others in his car angry. We came up to a red light pulled up right next to the cut off jerk. the driver looks over at me and starts cursing at me, the two other people in the car joined in. I start to look for a way to pull off but I couldnt go anywhere, I was in the right lane with a car in front of me, the thugs on my left and sidewalk with a big lamp post to my far right. Before I could think of what to the passenger and guy in the back seat were out of the car.

My mom complete freaked out and for good reason. It was raining out so my window was up, which is good because I really dont thing I would have gotten it up in time. The one from the back seat started pounding on my window call me a "Bi*tc* *****, and telling me to get out of the car, the other started around back headed towards my moms door. At some point (and I dont remeber for the life of me) between the intial cursing in the car and them getting out I had my hand on my gun which was in a IWB at around 8:00. The guy began pulling on my door handle and bannging on the glass. I drew my gun pressed up against the glass, "get away form my car!" I yelled. The little punk (well big punk) stumbled back and tripped, hitting his head on the car he came out of. His friend must of saw the gun because when his friend fell over he started yelling to the driver (while plugging his ears

) he shot omar! The driver cut into the otherside of traffic and drove away at speed, leaving his two idiot friends behind. I looked up and the light had either been green or just turned because there where no cars ahead of me and I was able to drive off.

This isnt the fist time I have had something like this happen to me (being accosted by a road rager) but this is the first time I actually had to pull my gun. there was one instance with a girl friend of mine who informed someone similar that I was armed to the teeth....I dont know how I did, or what else I could have done. I'm not sure if I was within my rights to pull my gun or if somehow, through some BS tech., I could catch a brandishing charge. All I know is this; It was dark and rainy, I was trapped at a light and was faced with two assialnts and a potential third. I had know idea what they were carrying on them and what intetions they had. Were they out to just mess with me? jack me? I certianlly dont know. My mother in the car with me was physcially disabled at the time and could in no way defend herself, let alone sistain an attack. I think once the second guy began to round the back of the car, all bets were off. All of this happened in no more than 2 min. Its amazing how long and scary two minutes can be.

When we got home I made my mom some tea and we sat there in silence for a good half hour. Finally she looked up at me and said "I want a CCP, can I get one today?" I made her reservations for a class at the NRA on saftey and the next three saturdays are going to be solely dedicated to her learning how to use a firearm and figuring out what she want so carry. I guess one good thing came out of all this. Oh and we never called the police. I guess I'll explain that later..

Sorry for the novel fellas, I just wanted to get all the details out so you can start hitting me with that world class feedback.

MPanova · April 27, 2008, 03:42 AM

Sounds like you did the right thing to me, Im glad you 2 are alright.

ImDisaster · April 27, 2008, 03:53 AM

First of all, sorry to hear about your situation. It must have been very scary, more so because you had your mother to protect.

Second, my opinion....and it is just that an opinion, I don't mean to be critical. I would not have "brandished" at this point for three reasons.

1. The threat wasn't high enough, yet.

Close, but IMHO, not there yet. You are in a car. Windows aren't too easy to break. Doors are locked. You have a escape route in a short period of time.

2. Brandishing gives away your surprise advantage.

If someone sees your gun they know you have it. You are in a car with very limited mobility and visibility. They could drop below your sightline and open fire into your door.

3. Brandishing could have lead to an escalation.

Before the gun, they might have just thought they'd be tough and scare someone who obviously didn't belong. After, they saw your gun they might have reacted by pulling out their Glocks and emptying them into the car...especially after seeing their friend go down. They might have thought you shot him and instead of running away, come at you.

Thank god the last scenario didn't happen.

I'm of the "avoid and diffuse" camp.

For example, in the case of a near miss in a car, I don't use the horn. That is the avoid. 99.9% of the time the horn doesn't help. Instead the person might react to it by swerving or hitting the brakes. Better to spend your awareness and reactions on dodging and planning an escape route. In most cases, when people use the horn it is a scolding. "You cut me off, idiot." I figure if someone is driving that unaware, or rudely, you aren't going to change their behavior. This isn't to say there might not be a situation where the horn might help...waking someone up...but it is rare, and the probability is that it will make the situation worse.

Next, is the diffuse. If I see myself in a situation with a clearly angry person, a heartfelt apology, or like gesture, can really diffuse the other person's anger. I don't care if I'm right or wrong. This isn't a situation with a long term friend that I need to straighten out. It is a situation with a stranger that I need to separate from as quickly as possible. In this case I would have made as "sorry" a gesture as I could have to the people in the car. This might have avoided them stepping out...or not...you never know...but it is always worth the try.

With my CCW I act like I don't have it...actually, I may even be more "timid" with it...to avoid a situation where I may have to use it....walk softly....carry a big stick.

One good thing came out of this. Your mom getting her CCW. You'll feel safer knowing she can defend herself.

Shadi Khalil · April 27, 2008, 03:58 AM

These are the same exact things I have been thinking about all night, why I'm still up at 5am. If my mom wasent in the car I probably would have reacted differently. One of the reasons we didnt call the cops.

Taptap · April 27, 2008, 04:15 AM

I've actually seen something like this go down before. Guy got pulled out of the car and got beat up pretty good. I think you were within your right. I know of a few cases in seattle recently where someone was getting assaulted (not with a weapon, just plain assaulted) and used deadly force. They were cleared of any wrong doing. Some times you gotta trust your gut. You obviously feared for your safety. Now, if you had let em have it,,, i'm not sure what would have happened. If they had grabbed you, then you could have.

ImDisaster · April 27, 2008, 04:23 AM

I know what it is like to be the protector in a bad situation. Years ago I was awoken to a knife at my throat. My girlfriend was with me and the guy's partner had a gun pointed at her. I was young and fit and knew some self defense. I had multiple times where I knew I could hit the guy with the knife and escape, but she couldn't, so I had to soldier on, continually trying to judge the danger level to determine if she was in danger of rape or we were in worse danger of getting killed if I didn't do something. At one point, they tried to separate us....wanting me to show them where the valuables were while the other guy held her in our bedroom...I refused to leave her alone with one of them...it got tense...but they agreed to bring her...the four of us walked around the apartment. It ended when they told us to go into the bathroom, they stayed outside. We left the bathroom about 5 minutes after we heard no activity and called the police.

xrocket · April 27, 2008, 07:02 AM

The adrenal rush and subsequent emotional valley after the fact can change perceptions in the mind. Fear and fear for loved ones is difficult to quantify.

I'm glad both of you are safe and all has turned out well concerning the incident. I for one will not offer any suggestions or post opinions since I was not there.

Go celebrate life, learn, adjust and move on.

Now teach your mom how to slay dragons!

.

Boris Bush · April 27, 2008, 07:13 AM

Good job. You did what you had to, be glad you didn't have to break a perfectly good window to stop the threat.

You saved your moms life and at the very least further injury from what she already had.......

ActivShootr · April 27, 2008, 07:31 AM

If by drawing your weapon you stopped the threat, then you did the right thing. Try not to loose any more sleep over it.

Best wishes to your mom.

wjkuleck · April 27, 2008, 07:59 AM

Quote:

The guy began pulling on my door handle and bannging on the glass

This is why we need "castle doctrine" laws; they seem to generally include vehicles which one is occupying, as well as dwelling-places.

Regards,

Walt

Moe Howard · April 27, 2008, 08:04 AM

Quote:

1. The threat wasn't high enough, yet.

Is he supposed to wait until he or his mom are actually knifed or shot or beat before drawing his weapon?

Quote:

Close, but IMHO, not there yet. You are in a car. Windows aren't too easy to break. Doors are locked. You have a escape route in a short period of time.

If one of the guys pulls a Glock that window is not much protection. And and escape route in a short period of time

are you serious? Would you like a list of what can happen in a short period of time in a situation like this?

Quote:

2. Brandishing gives away your surprise advantage.

The guys seeing the gun he pulled for protection may very well have saved his life and the life of his mother. That isn't exactly brandishing no matter what a states law is. If your state would consider this brandishing your state wants you to wait until it is too late.

Quote:

If someone sees your gun they know you have it. You are in a car with very limited mobility and visibility. They could drop below your sightline and open fire into your door.

That could be true since there are no absolutes in life but most street type bad guys are no where near that smart or quick thinking.

Quote:

3. Brandishing could have lead to an escalation.

Maybe you didn't read they were trying to get into his car by pounding on the windows and pulling on the door handles. Seems to me these guys escalated it before ever seeing the gun.

I don't know N VA state law but I would hope you are legally protected in the way you handled this terrible situation. The way I see it by what you described, (which was well done by the way) you were perfectly justified to handle it the way you did. Glad your and your mom are OK and I would switch that tea to a beer though.

vanguard_anon · April 27, 2008, 08:13 AM

Did you pull your gun out too early? Maybe, it's a close call. I just took my NC CHP class yesterday so the legal stuff is still fresh in my mind. Based on the letter of the law around here, threatening words and even simple assault aren't enough to justify using deadly force. Assuming VA is the same (dangerous assumption I know) it's a good thing you didn't pull the trigger.

Having said that, the result you got was near perfection. The bad guy stumbled backwards like a fool and his friends left him behind. I didn't see the situation improving and I'm not convinced that if the light had turned green they would have left you alone.

BTW, if you had been in NJ (where I was from before NC) this probably wouldn't have happened. We use our horns up there so much that everybody has thicker skin about that type of thing. Heck, you could have flipped him the bird and it wouldn't have been the first time it happened to him that day.

WESHOOT2 · April 27, 2008, 08:19 AM

Been there pulled that; you did what was smart.
You eliminated the threat; you got the behavior to stop.
Good.

That is what I refer to as "stopping power".
I find (found?) it much preferrable to actually firing.

Mom = tip-up-barrel Beretta.........

velobard · April 27, 2008, 08:32 AM

I think you acted properly. As for pulling your gun too soon, they were already presenting an aggressive threat. If you'd waited until the 2nd thug was on at the door on the other side, you would have been in a very potential bind, and if you'd waited until they breeched your car window it may have been too late to act without them overpowering you. Good job.

Tom M · April 27, 2008, 09:00 AM

Please call the police and report this. If they got your license plate number, they can call the cops and say you threatened them with a gun for no reason. You then become the aggressor, and stand to have a bunch of legal problems. Get your licks in first. Besides, there may be wants and warrants out for these guys, and it may help the cops.

WESHOOT2 · April 27, 2008, 09:04 AM

Cops came, asked me if I still had the gun on me, I answered "Yes", and the cops went and arrested the guys I'd deterred.
Sum total of incident.

But it was 1982 (?)

Hawg · April 27, 2008, 09:09 AM

You were outnumbered. You did the right thing. They could've broken a window with just about anything at any time. If the second one had gotten around to your moms side of the car and broken her window it could've been really bad. You'd have had her between him and you with the first one at your back. What would you have done then?

HankB · April 27, 2008, 09:13 AM

Contrary to some opinions, side windows are usually not laminated, most of the time they're tempered safety glass . . . it's been a well-known trick among bad guys that slapping a side window with a rock in your hand will usually shatter it completely; some BGs wear oversized rings which will do the trick, too.

When some would-be road rager tries to start something, I smile, shrug, and let the idiot think I'm apologizing for whatever he thinks I did. If there's escalation to the point where I need to use deadly force to protect myself and my passengers, I want all the escalation to be on the other guy's part. (If he drives away thinking he's Alpha King of the Road, that's fine with me, since I don't care what idiots think.)

Once you're blocked in, and two BGs have escalated the situation beyond words and gestures and are trying to force entry, you have an ailing mother as a passenger . . . sounds like you did good; if I couldn't just drive away and had two BGs trying to break into my vehicle, I would've drawn, too.

cschwanz · April 27, 2008, 09:14 AM

First of all, glad that you and your mom are both ok!

I see nothing wrong with your actions! If two ot threee people get out a car yelling at me, pulling at my door handle and banging on the window, especially if they try to surround my car, my gun will be getting pulled as well. In my opinion, you were within your right to defend yourself and your mother. Glad everything is ok. And as someone said above, calling the authorities and saying something first may be a good idea.

BamaBowtie · April 27, 2008, 09:21 AM

Here is a point nobody has made, in the unarmed assailant situation, he is out numbered and if he followed the letter of the law he can't draw. When these two (or three?) made there way into the car and assaulted him, he would probably not be the victor and during the assault they would find the gun and take it from him! Noboby considers the fact the gun can be taken away and the unarmed assailant is now an armed one. I think you did the right thing in your situation.

stmcelroy · April 27, 2008, 10:17 AM

You done good.

You would not have pulled your gun if you did not feel your or your moms life were in danger.

Quit second guessing yourself, and be happy that: a.)mom and you made it home safe and b.) nobody ended up getting shot.

steaknuggets · April 27, 2008, 10:49 AM

You did the right thing in my book... Retreat wasn't practical (even if the light would have eventually turned green), you were a reluctant participant, and you were out numbered making it a legitimate threat. They obviously escalated the scenario, not you. You didn't brandish your weapon, you drew it in self defense, and when you realized that the threat had stopped, you left the area. Good on you man!

I wouldn't lose any more sleep over those scum bags and whether you did the right thing or not. You did!

mvpel · April 27, 2008, 10:59 AM

A friend of mine had to hire a lawyer and fight his way out of a criminal prosecution when this same sort of thing happened, because the other guy who was pounding on his window called the cops first and reported his firearm.

DonR101395 · April 27, 2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

A friend of mine had to hire a lawyer and fight his way out of a criminal prosecution when this same sort of thing happened, because the other guy who was pounding on his window called the cops first and reported his firearm.

From my experience, research and talking with cops and the local DA, the first person on 911 typically gets the benefit of the doubt.

dave421 · April 27, 2008, 11:15 AM

For those talking about him pulling the gun being brandishing, it's not (at least here in NC). Facing multiple assailants (especially while protecting his older, sick, & weak mother) is enough for him to be reasonably in fear for his life. If he had been facing one person then the situation would be different. As it is, he was facing a minimum of 2 people threatening him and attempting to enter his car to cause him & his mother harm. He was legally justified in drawing. IMO (being familiar with NC's laws through CCW training, CJ education, & close relationships with many LEOs) he did the right thing to protect himself and, more importantly, his mother.

April 27, 2008, 03:01 AM	#1
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	It Almost Happened...(long) Hello All, As I write this my hands are still trembling a bit. Here's the story. Today at around 6:00pm I get a heart-wretching call from my mom. She has bad disc in her back, she bent over to lift a bag of rice and went down and couldnt get up. My dad is out of town so she had no one there to help. She had laid on the floor for an hour before she could crawl to a phone to call me. I raced over there and took her to the hospital. After some x-rays, a few shots of happy juice and a good scolding from her specialist she was discharged. We headed home, taking a short cut as she was feeling car sick. While my mother and father have a beauitful home in a very nice neighborhood, some of the surrounding areas are not so nice. They live in Manassas, N. Virginia, I live in Arlington N. Va just minutes outside of DC and a few spots where they live rivial some bad neighborhoods in DC. Well anyone who knows the Manassas knows Gerogetown South and to get home from the hosptial we passed through there. My mom spot a gas station and ask me to stop and get her a bottle of water. As I pull out of the gas station and start up the road an old beat up civic comes roaring out of the adject strip mall parking lot, blowing his stop sign and just barely missing me. I Steered out of the way, narrowly averting his car and kinda skidding out into the other lane. At some point during all this I must have hit my horn or flashed my lights at the guy (naturally) and I think this made him and the others in his car angry. We came up to a red light pulled up right next to the cut off jerk. the driver looks over at me and starts cursing at me, the two other people in the car joined in. I start to look for a way to pull off but I couldnt go anywhere, I was in the right lane with a car in front of me, the thugs on my left and sidewalk with a big lamp post to my far right. Before I could think of what to the passenger and guy in the back seat were out of the car. My mom complete freaked out and for good reason. It was raining out so my window was up, which is good because I really dont thing I would have gotten it up in time. The one from the back seat started pounding on my window call me a "Bitc *****, and telling me to get out of the car, the other started around back headed towards my moms door. At some point (and I dont remeber for the life of me) between the intial cursing in the car and them getting out I had my hand on my gun which was in a IWB at around 8:00. The guy began pulling on my door handle and bannging on the glass. I drew my gun pressed up against the glass, "get away form my car!" I yelled. The little punk (well big punk) stumbled back and tripped, hitting his head on the car he came out of. His friend must of saw the gun because when his friend fell over he started yelling to the driver (while plugging his ears ) he shot omar! The driver cut into the otherside of traffic and drove away at speed, leaving his two idiot friends behind. I looked up and the light had either been green or just turned because there where no cars ahead of me and I was able to drive off. This isnt the fist time I have had something like this happen to me (being accosted by a road rager) but this is the first time I actually had to pull my gun. there was one instance with a girl friend of mine who informed someone similar that I was armed to the teeth....I dont know how I did, or what else I could have done. I'm not sure if I was within my rights to pull my gun or if somehow, through some BS tech., I could catch a brandishing charge. All I know is this; It was dark and rainy, I was trapped at a light and was faced with two assialnts and a potential third. I had know idea what they were carrying on them and what intetions they had. Were they out to just mess with me? jack me? I certianlly dont know. My mother in the car with me was physcially disabled at the time and could in no way defend herself, let alone sistain an attack. I think once the second guy began to round the back of the car, all bets were off. All of this happened in no more than 2 min. Its amazing how long and scary two minutes can be. When we got home I made my mom some tea and we sat there in silence for a good half hour. Finally she looked up at me and said "I want a CCP, can I get one today?" I made her reservations for a class at the NRA on saftey and the next three saturdays are going to be solely dedicated to her learning how to use a firearm and figuring out what she want so carry. I guess one good thing came out of all this. Oh and we never called the police. I guess I'll explain that later.. Sorry for the novel fellas, I just wanted to get all the details out so you can start hitting me with that world class feedback.

April 27, 2008, 03:42 AM	#2
MPanova Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2006 Location: Houston TX Posts: 681	Sounds like you did the right thing to me, Im glad you 2 are alright. __________________ .45 CALIBER FANATIC!!! "WALK SOFTLY AND CARRY A BIG GUN!"

April 27, 2008, 07:02 AM	#7
xrocket Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2007 Posts: 549	The adrenal rush and subsequent emotional valley after the fact can change perceptions in the mind. Fear and fear for loved ones is difficult to quantify. I'm glad both of you are safe and all has turned out well concerning the incident. I for one will not offer any suggestions or post opinions since I was not there. Go celebrate life, learn, adjust and move on. Now teach your mom how to slay dragons! . __________________ If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything. My stand begins with "WE THE PEOPLE" ...

April 27, 2008, 08:19 AM	#13
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	lived a block from the Pentagon Been there pulled that; you did what was smart. You eliminated the threat; you got the behavior to stop. Good. That is what I refer to as "stopping power". I find (found?) it much preferrable to actually firing. Mom = tip-up-barrel Beretta......... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

April 27, 2008, 09:00 AM	#15
Tom M Member Join Date: October 6, 2005 Location: Warren, Michigan Posts: 47	Please call the police and report this. If they got your license plate number, they can call the cops and say you threatened them with a gun for no reason. You then become the aggressor, and stand to have a bunch of legal problems. Get your licks in first. Besides, there may be wants and warrants out for these guys, and it may help the cops. __________________ Tom NRA Life Member

April 27, 2008, 03:53 AM	#3
ImDisaster Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2008 Posts: 403	First of all, sorry to hear about your situation. It must have been very scary, more so because you had your mother to protect. Second, my opinion....and it is just that an opinion, I don't mean to be critical. I would not have "brandished" at this point for three reasons. 1. The threat wasn't high enough, yet. Close, but IMHO, not there yet. You are in a car. Windows aren't too easy to break. Doors are locked. You have a escape route in a short period of time. 2. Brandishing gives away your surprise advantage. If someone sees your gun they know you have it. You are in a car with very limited mobility and visibility. They could drop below your sightline and open fire into your door. 3. Brandishing could have lead to an escalation. Before the gun, they might have just thought they'd be tough and scare someone who obviously didn't belong. After, they saw your gun they might have reacted by pulling out their Glocks and emptying them into the car...especially after seeing their friend go down. They might have thought you shot him and instead of running away, come at you. Thank god the last scenario didn't happen. I'm of the "avoid and diffuse" camp. For example, in the case of a near miss in a car, I don't use the horn. That is the avoid. 99.9% of the time the horn doesn't help. Instead the person might react to it by swerving or hitting the brakes. Better to spend your awareness and reactions on dodging and planning an escape route. In most cases, when people use the horn it is a scolding. "You cut me off, idiot." I figure if someone is driving that unaware, or rudely, you aren't going to change their behavior. This isn't to say there might not be a situation where the horn might help...waking someone up...but it is rare, and the probability is that it will make the situation worse. Next, is the diffuse. If I see myself in a situation with a clearly angry person, a heartfelt apology, or like gesture, can really diffuse the other person's anger. I don't care if I'm right or wrong. This isn't a situation with a long term friend that I need to straighten out. It is a situation with a stranger that I need to separate from as quickly as possible. In this case I would have made as "sorry" a gesture as I could have to the people in the car. This might have avoided them stepping out...or not...you never know...but it is always worth the try. With my CCW I act like I don't have it...actually, I may even be more "timid" with it...to avoid a situation where I may have to use it....walk softly....carry a big stick. One good thing came out of this. Your mom getting her CCW. You'll feel safer knowing she can defend herself.

April 27, 2008, 03:58 AM	#4
Shadi Khalil Senior Member Join Date: September 23, 2006 Location: Alexandria, VA Posts: 5,210	These are the same exact things I have been thinking about all night, why I'm still up at 5am. If my mom wasent in the car I probably would have reacted differently. One of the reasons we didnt call the cops.

April 27, 2008, 04:15 AM	#5
Taptap Member Join Date: April 8, 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 99	I've actually seen something like this go down before. Guy got pulled out of the car and got beat up pretty good. I think you were within your right. I know of a few cases in seattle recently where someone was getting assaulted (not with a weapon, just plain assaulted) and used deadly force. They were cleared of any wrong doing. Some times you gotta trust your gut. You obviously feared for your safety. Now, if you had let em have it,,, i'm not sure what would have happened. If they had grabbed you, then you could have.

April 27, 2008, 04:23 AM	#6
ImDisaster Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2008 Posts: 403	I know what it is like to be the protector in a bad situation. Years ago I was awoken to a knife at my throat. My girlfriend was with me and the guy's partner had a gun pointed at her. I was young and fit and knew some self defense. I had multiple times where I knew I could hit the guy with the knife and escape, but she couldn't, so I had to soldier on, continually trying to judge the danger level to determine if she was in danger of rape or we were in worse danger of getting killed if I didn't do something. At one point, they tried to separate us....wanting me to show them where the valuables were while the other guy held her in our bedroom...I refused to leave her alone with one of them...it got tense...but they agreed to bring her...the four of us walked around the apartment. It ended when they told us to go into the bathroom, they stayed outside. We left the bathroom about 5 minutes after we heard no activity and called the police.

April 27, 2008, 07:13 AM	#8
Boris Bush Junior member Join Date: September 7, 2007 Posts: 921	Good job. You did what you had to, be glad you didn't have to break a perfectly good window to stop the threat. You saved your moms life and at the very least further injury from what she already had.......

April 27, 2008, 07:31 AM	#9
ActivShootr Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2007 Posts: 1,040	If by drawing your weapon you stopped the threat, then you did the right thing. Try not to loose any more sleep over it. Best wishes to your mom.

April 27, 2008, 08:13 AM	#12
vanguard_anon Member Join Date: April 20, 2008 Location: RTP, NC Posts: 49	Did you pull your gun out too early? Maybe, it's a close call. I just took my NC CHP class yesterday so the legal stuff is still fresh in my mind. Based on the letter of the law around here, threatening words and even simple assault aren't enough to justify using deadly force. Assuming VA is the same (dangerous assumption I know) it's a good thing you didn't pull the trigger. Having said that, the result you got was near perfection. The bad guy stumbled backwards like a fool and his friends left him behind. I didn't see the situation improving and I'm not convinced that if the light had turned green they would have left you alone. BTW, if you had been in NJ (where I was from before NC) this probably wouldn't have happened. We use our horns up there so much that everybody has thicker skin about that type of thing. Heck, you could have flipped him the bird and it wouldn't have been the first time it happened to him that day.

April 27, 2008, 08:32 AM	#14
velobard Member Join Date: February 26, 2008 Posts: 36	I think you acted properly. As for pulling your gun too soon, they were already presenting an aggressive threat. If you'd waited until the 2nd thug was on at the door on the other side, you would have been in a very potential bind, and if you'd waited until they breeched your car window it may have been too late to act without them overpowering you. Good job.

April 27, 2008, 09:04 AM	#16
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	That actually happened to me once upon a time (and in Virginia, too) Cops came, asked me if I still had the gun on me, I answered "Yes", and the cops went and arrested the guys I'd deterred. Sum total of incident. But it was 1982 (?) __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

April 27, 2008, 09:09 AM	#17
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	You were outnumbered. You did the right thing. They could've broken a window with just about anything at any time. If the second one had gotten around to your moms side of the car and broken her window it could've been really bad. You'd have had her between him and you with the first one at your back. What would you have done then?

April 27, 2008, 09:13 AM	#18
HankB Senior Member Join Date: March 30, 2000 Location: Central Texas, outside of Austin Posts: 1,698	Contrary to some opinions, side windows are usually not laminated, most of the time they're tempered safety glass . . . it's been a well-known trick among bad guys that slapping a side window with a rock in your hand will usually shatter it completely; some BGs wear oversized rings which will do the trick, too. When some would-be road rager tries to start something, I smile, shrug, and let the idiot think I'm apologizing for whatever he thinks I did. If there's escalation to the point where I need to use deadly force to protect myself and my passengers, I want all the escalation to be on the other guy's part. (If he drives away thinking he's Alpha King of the Road, that's fine with me, since I don't care what idiots think.) Once you're blocked in, and two BGs have escalated the situation beyond words and gestures and are trying to force entry, you have an ailing mother as a passenger . . . sounds like you did good; if I couldn't just drive away and had two BGs trying to break into my vehicle, I would've drawn, too. __________________ To be kind to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself - Sun Tzu

April 27, 2008, 09:14 AM	#19
cschwanz Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Location: IN Posts: 321	First of all, glad that you and your mom are both ok! I see nothing wrong with your actions! If two ot threee people get out a car yelling at me, pulling at my door handle and banging on the window, especially if they try to surround my car, my gun will be getting pulled as well. In my opinion, you were within your right to defend yourself and your mother. Glad everything is ok. And as someone said above, calling the authorities and saying something first may be a good idea. __________________ SA XD .45 Compact -- 5" Colt XSE -- Glock 21SF Savage Mark-II .22LR Member:NRA, DU, PF Ignorance can be fixed....its called education. Stupid will get you killed!

April 27, 2008, 09:21 AM	#20
BamaBowtie Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2007 Location: Vernon, FL Posts: 209	Here is a point nobody has made, in the unarmed assailant situation, he is out numbered and if he followed the letter of the law he can't draw. When these two (or three?) made there way into the car and assaulted him, he would probably not be the victor and during the assault they would find the gun and take it from him! Noboby considers the fact the gun can be taken away and the unarmed assailant is now an armed one. I think you did the right thing in your situation.

April 27, 2008, 10:17 AM	#21
stmcelroy Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2002 Location: Central Oregon Posts: 562	You done good. You would not have pulled your gun if you did not feel your or your moms life were in danger. Quit second guessing yourself, and be happy that: a.)mom and you made it home safe and b.) nobody ended up getting shot.

April 27, 2008, 10:49 AM	#22
steaknuggets Member Join Date: September 23, 2007 Location: MN Posts: 47	You did the right thing in my book... Retreat wasn't practical (even if the light would have eventually turned green), you were a reluctant participant, and you were out numbered making it a legitimate threat. They obviously escalated the scenario, not you. You didn't brandish your weapon, you drew it in self defense, and when you realized that the threat had stopped, you left the area. Good on you man! I wouldn't lose any more sleep over those scum bags and whether you did the right thing or not. You did!

April 27, 2008, 10:59 AM	#23
mvpel Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2000 Location: Hooksett, NH Posts: 1,847	A friend of mine had to hire a lawyer and fight his way out of a criminal prosecution when this same sort of thing happened, because the other guy who was pounding on his window called the cops first and reported his firearm. __________________ Not a blacksmith could be found in the whole land of Israel, because the Philistines had said, "Otherwise the Hebrews will make swords or spears!" 1 Samuel 13:19

April 27, 2008, 11:15 AM	#25
dave421 Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Posts: 510	For those talking about him pulling the gun being brandishing, it's not (at least here in NC). Facing multiple assailants (especially while protecting his older, sick, & weak mother) is enough for him to be reasonably in fear for his life. If he had been facing one person then the situation would be different. As it is, he was facing a minimum of 2 people threatening him and attempting to enter his car to cause him & his mother harm. He was legally justified in drawing. IMO (being familiar with NC's laws through CCW training, CJ education, & close relationships with many LEOs) he did the right thing to protect himself and, more importantly, his mother.